Outer Plies : Limba,Hinoki,Koto

[UpSideDownCarl]

hahaha dude ur awesome

Butterfly M. Maze: limba-arylate/carbon-limba-ayous-limba-arylate/carbon-limba

Dawei GTS: hinoki-arylate/carbon-ayous-arylate/carbon-hinoki

i was between those two blades , currently i play with boll alc and im exited with the large sweet spot . So i need something with arylate , whats your opinion ? should i try maze and spend 90 Euro (i have good relationships with the seller) or buy GTS for only 25 26 Euros . I believe if maze is better i wont think about the money because i will keep the blade for many years . what do you think?

I love the Maze blade. It is awesome. What can I say. I would go with that. I have never tried the Dawei GTS, but, my experience, I would rather a blade that is all Hinoki if it has Hinoki. . The one I mentioned above: Darker 7p-2A.7t is a little faster than the Maze but I would go with the Maze if you like Aryalate/Carbon. That is a blade that will hold up for years.

 

[TTFrenzy]

I love the Maze blade. It is awesome. What can I say. I would go with that. I have never tried the Dawei GTS, but, my experience, I would rather a blade that is all Hinoki if it has Hinoki. . The one I mentioned above: Darker 7p-2A.7t is a little faster than the Maze but I would go with the Maze if you like Aryalate/Carbon. That is a blade that will hold up for years.

the reason i change basically is that i want a softer outer ply for increasing dwell time and that ST handle of boll alc is too thick for me and it doesnt feel good when i swing hard , in certain strokes because of the thick handle i lose accuracy . anyway thanx for your reply!

 

[MaLong#1]

yeah.. I thought that i must left this forum, but now.. I have experienced, and someone answered.
TTFrenzy - for me outer ply not only determines dwell time. But for me? Limba,Hinoki. I do not know which is more. I would have to do a test.
I really like the feeling of hinoki but blades with all hinoki or hinoki in outer ply have a high parable of flight, unless you're playing hard rubbers(but it is not an option for me: P)
I really like for example : stiga allround evolution, but i like generally the blade in addition to outer ply I don't like limba because, if someone plays the glue water. It has to forcefully play topspins and is close to the table is unnecessary. For me only good option far to the table
Carl - error = fault, mistake etc


yeah my english isn't good. If i want to say about simple things - it is okay But i want to say about important things in table tennis, where you must know many specific words -> then for me this is little hard

For me --> Maze has worse feel than ALC I know that limba is here, but overall many people many people say that Maze isn't good.

For me --> If i don't use tuning (for example btf optimizer , etc) I need Koto for outer ply. "speed" glue was amazing and a pity that I can not use but for speed glue - limba, hinoki was amazing.
But I think that hinoki was worse because, here is high parable (I'm not sure, I used to do this test)

Thanks for attention

 

[MaLong#1]

"The thinner outer ply makes it so you have touch for short game because limba is slow and holds the ball on the racket, but because it is so thin, when you hit harder it is easier for you to get to the inner plies of ayous that are springy and fast so you get this snap and a lot of speed with the extra dwell time."

Carl - you are amazing!

Maybe you don't understand me, but i understand you

That's all about why i like koto on water glue!
Look --> If my style that close to table, and near to table (overall) that limba isn't good for me. When my style is fast topspins without much power in my move(!) then limba "destroy" me When i play (for example) primorac with soft rubbers -> I can't play good My fast topspins from bh and fh on limba, do not fly to the middle of the opponent This is limba CARL

http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?844-Composition-of-Blades/page2
This is the most important topic in forum about blades, later.. my topic as second
But here is about only outer ply

and Carl, you are amazing again!!
I know that my english isn't good, but only just You and Me are interested in really blades

Before : i thought that you know average about blades(and sorry! ), but now i know, that my english disturbed in conducting this important topic ;/

 

[TTFrenzy]

so actually what ma long sais is that koto is for people with not much power in their swing because of its stiffness . Personally im learning new techniques right now thats why i need a "slower" blade in terms of outer ply thats why i believe i blades with limba or hinoki will do the work

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

When i play (for example) primorac with soft rubbers -> I can't play good My fast topspins from bh and fh on limba, do not fly to the middle of the opponent This is limba CARL

Info on this. The Primorac blade uses this ply construction:

Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba

The outer ply is Limba and the one between the outer ply and the core is Limba. The plies of Limba are thick. This gives the Limba a sort of solid and dead almost hard and slow feel. This is a great blade for beginners learning technique because of this: because the blade is sort of slow with a lot of dwell time and therefore you have control and can learn how to spin the ball and the blade is good for the short game. But as your game advances and you start needing gears from your racket, then you may need something that has more power and you might not need a blade that is as slow.

Personally I like hard rubbers though. Look what I use. I use Hurricane III Neo for my forehand and Tenergy (right now I have Tenergy 25) on my backhand. I like 05 and 64 better than Tenergy 25, but 25 is what I have and it works well enough till I put my next set of rubbers on. So with my rubber setup Limba works very well and I am not trying to put soft rubbers on Limba. But I have used other rubbers with Limba and for me, Limba still works well with softer rubbers. I still like Limba as my outer ply and Ayous as my inner plies better than anything else.

Koto is good because it is hard and fast. The Timo Boll blades have Koto as the outer ply. The Kong Linghui blades have Koto as the outer ply as well. I like the qualities of Limba for when I play better. It works better for my game. But blades with Koto outer ply are good, especially for someone who has a good stroke and knows how to generate spin or is using softer rubbers.

MaLong#1, you should try a Stiga Clipper and see how it feels. You might see how a blade with a very thin ply of Limba and 5 plies of Ayous underneath it, has a whole different quality to it than that Primorac blade.

For me --> Maze has worse feel than ALC I know that limba is here, but overall many people many people say that Maze isn't good.

The Maze blade is an ALC blade. The Michael Maze blade has Arylate Carbon (ALC) in it. That blade feels absolutely great.

The one blade that Butterfly makes that I like more than the Maze is the Innerforce ZLF and that blade has Limba as the outer ply and Zylon under that and than Ayous under that. This blade might have the most dwell time and spin of any blade that fast that I have tried. And it is more than fast enough and has a lot of power.

By the way, the Stiga Hardwood series has interesting blades constructions. The blades are Ebenholz, Rosewood and Maplewood. I have only tried the first two. These are the blade constructions for the Ebenholz V NCT and the Rosewood V NCT:

Ebony-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Ebony

and

Rosewood-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Rosewood

What they have done is taken a hard wood like Ebony or Rosewood and put Spruce which is soft and springy under it and used an Ayous core. Ebony is harder than Rosewood. I believe the Maplewood V NCT would be the same thing with Maple. I think Maple would be a touch softer than Rosewood but I have not played it so I don't really know. With the hard outer ply you get crispness and speed. With the springy Spruce ply under it you get dwell time and spin, and then with the Ayous core you get a solid feel and power. They are interesting blades that are worth feeling.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

so actually what ma long sais is that koto is for people with not much power in their swing because of its stiffness . Personally im learning new techniques right now thats why i need a "slower" blade in terms of outer ply thats why i believe i blades with limba or hinoki will do the work

Good read. And that is a very insightful understanding of what you want and need from a blade for right now.

 

[MaLong#1]

Carl - but I know that primoras has Limba and this is reason why I don't play this blade
Only Koto. But TTFrenzy only partly understood me. Koto is wood which is more hard. And when you play, your contact with ball (when you have koto on outer ply) is as follows :
- the ball flies right away.
* regardless of hardness. Limba is a little opposite of koto. And Limba can be soft how on Korbel blade and hard how on Primorac blade.
On limba you must have contact with the ball strength. if not - the ball will not fly.
That is why I like the koto. With Koto you not need a contact with ball with big force

And TTFrenzy. Koto give my much powerfull in my game Because I do not have force And my topspins have power. I only then my game is very good with power Because i must only play topspins with fast moves with acceleration

I hope that you understand what I wrote above
If not - write to explain what

And Carl - Maze --> Alc -> i think tb alc (spirit)

My knowledge about "not all wood blades" for me :
Arylate - too soft
Zylon - not for me
Zylon/carbon-not for me
carbon/ulc/glassfiber - bad felling and less spin
arylate/carbon - the best for me feel, spin , speed etc

After 2010/2011 we have new materials because i don't know about it ;/
-aratox, etc etc
If someone know about new materials, please write

 

[MaLong#1]

Carl - I like only soft rubbers And this is very important for search best outer ply for me.
On water glue the best outer ply is just Koto
Soft rubbers on hinoki - high parable and your opponent can easy for counterspinng
Limba- dwell time and use your force. Not my "technique school"
I really like clipper! I like almost all on this blade, but.. my blade (on water glue) can be 6.0 max!!
That is my next theory. If you play near to table only to 6.0mm blade. Because when your shots are without big force you don't feel inner ply
Carl - only when you play far to the table and play very strong topspins because you have time! --> then you can try clipper And then clipper will perfect
(and i wrote only for soft rubbers Carl I hope that you agree with me, when it comes to )

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Ma Long, if you ever get to try an Ebenholz V NCT or Ebenholz VII NCT, you will probably like those because the Ebony outer ply is crisp and makes the ball go. It is actually similar to Koto but harder and crisper. It goes very well with soft rubbers.

But the Timo Boll ALC or Timo Boll Spirit sounds like it might be the blade for you if you like a Koto outer ply and Arylate/Carbon blades.

 

[MaLong#1]

I think that I wrote a little something unintelligible because you replied very little
I want to buy just spirit but to 87-88g max! And Spirit is blade very demanding so you must train 3x minimum for a week !
And Carl --> I don't know: Spirit or TB ALC. I know that these blades are the same, and construction are the same, but i heard, that tb alc is a little softer What do you know about it?
I must play in the future ebenholz V or VII NCT, but i think that maybe feel ebony can be worse than koto feel :>
But thanks
What do you want about outer ply violin?
I only looks at hinoki, limba, koto, not ebony but..
Had you a blade with balsa on outer ply?
I think that for me important is limba,hinoki,koto,ebony,outer ply on violin, balsa, and... basswood
But i heard that basswood is only on kenny pro, on any faster and there is a good blade soo only for something know, which is basswood?