Superlight weight allround setup

[AdamH]

15 years ago I started playing with Donic Allplay V2 Appelgren.

A new one is around 79-80g. With age it has dropped to 71-72g. Even a V1 version at 68g.

I used Quattro Formula (Donic) at a lower mm same as for FH with another similar. Both clocked in at 38-39g each.

Players that are weaker and add to that shorter should play with lighter equipment as they progress.

I tried to even get the junior blade version of the Allplay to match a total weight that makes the blade feel like an extension of your arm. It is the best feeling one can have.

Back then I was down on 142-144g.

Coming back last november I headed over to the Stiga Brandstore in Sweden to try out some equipment.

Better to try and buy something than just buy randomly online.

So I got their Dragon Grip 55 on both sides. It is just a OCD thing to buy the same.

I think I clocked in at 185 with my old Allplay V2 at 71-72g.

In my journey so far learning more about rubbers it has been interesting.

I am just baffled by the lack of information about rubbers in general sens.

So Dragon Grip. Could not bottom out while looping. Was marketed as semi-tacky. I think it is a marketing ploy they use because sticky and tacky could be mixed up in terms of describing grip.

Anyway not sticky at all.

I could bottom out with emence force in smash but overall to compact and heavy.

Why I choose it? It was the only "China" rubber in store. I like sticky.

Doing a complete opposite since I am ashamed to say that I thought chinease rubbers were soft due to a mate in my old club 15 years ago had a very soft rubber with alot of schtikk.

So my next rubber was actually Rakza 7 Soft, also max and both sides.

Now I love vibrations and feedback, feeling the ball, placing it exactly where you want it hence why I love china rubbers.

The Rakza 7 Soft was and still is a very or should I say amazing rubber due to its linnear softness but as anyone who isn't OFF you will cry when you notice that it has 3 specific issues.

It bottoms out when slicing and not hard chopping, it is bouncy because to an extend it bottoms out.

Now the best players that isnt OFF I have met in match so far has had a soft blade with a more if not advanced rubber.

I actually borrowed my friends Alser and Rakza 7 Soft (7 year old racket) shortly after I got fed up with the Dragon Grip needed time if figuring out the next step.

That rubber as the stories goes about how Hurricane ages is similar. The rubber was even better on a slower blade.

The second thing that made the Rakza 7 Soft to a potential topp rubber was the total lack of stickyness. I do agree that powerplayers would say power but I am ALL and loop > until given enough height to smash.

Because without a bit of tack you find yourself with a heffy deadspot in the shortgame, flipping a ball becomes almost impossible with no grip in the slow game.

But it was the slicing that killed it for me with its bouncyness.

A delicate rubber one side that needs a firm lover at times. I don't want to be angry at the rubber half of the time so I moved on.

Since I loved soft rubber but wanted to be able to have less active blocking closer to table I went with Hurricane 3-50 on both sides max again.

Now be warned that rubber comes with one of the most sticky surfaces out of the pack but looses alot durinf the first 2-4 hours then sessions.

It was amazing and fun until I got from passiv blocks at the table taking full shots with returns behind the net and 45 cm inside the table to 45 cm outside due to its effect running out during mid tournament and I could not figure out why the ball went long.

Realizing this rubber on BH being heavier again than Rakza 7 Soft, Rakza 7 Soft being 42g cut I think compared to Hurricane 50g. Still a bit lighter than the Dragon Grip 55.

So my play on BH was just as slow and passiv as you can imagine. I literally generated the weirdest slowest loops with insane rpm.

Moving forward. I got more blades so I could experiment still the v2. Only downside was the added weight. Newer ones wasn't dried up as mine which made it lose 9g over 15 years.

Hurricane Neo was up and to clarify I was looking for a pinch more speed while building muscles by playing.

The Neo Soft 37 degrees to the H3 3-50 Soft 37.

Maybe I got a bad batch but the Neo was just a more dried harder sponge much like Stigas and a stiffer surface calling it ms technology a innovation for the new ball. What a joke.

It was faster but lower throw, less gears, less feel, stiffer in general.

As you can imagine wasn't going for much more killshots in regular. Sure opponents got a different taste in gamestyle but everything is an exchange.

Now during this time I have done research, tried loads of rackets from friends and foes.

During training at a club we got a visit from Stiga. I wanted more power in my BH.

The Neo wasn't really a step up in my BH, not with the weight on a new V2. Those grams doesn't help my weak ass noodle arm or wrist in BH.

But the visitor came with the demo rackets and just got a neutral feeling towards Mantra Pro M.

The reason for the switches here was 2. First playing with chinease rubbers the ball goes where you aim however anyone with a slow setup getting arm stretched from a awkward stance wish they had a bit of tensor to get that slight help in curve. Atleast have it as a option if needed.

The Mantra Pro M is a wide rubber in terms of who could use it but for me I was back on reverse Rakza 7 Soft with a harder bouncier defensive block where you can't slice. Too much for me at this stage to be that active. Not my style.

Still it was a step forward, I lost something but realized something.

After that just a couple of weeks ago I boosted the Neo just to feel the effect of boosting. See if any magic happens.

Faster asf boi. But it grew a deadspot due to its stretched surface so there was a imbalance in the bottom versus the top. Going out on the long side crossing demanded more than I could deliver.

Became to fast dependent. Much like the Mantra Pro M from Stiga also max, unexpectingly heavy aswell demanded a harder force to activate.

But it was its bounce that was similar to Neo (boosted) I needed to take a different approach.

So for fun I boosted H3 3-50 Soft, an already soft sponge and the result was amazing. Got a pinch more speed, could feel the ball again and another thing, both the original H3 and 3-50 has so much more grip and stick than the Neo I got.

I also put on my 15 years old Quattro Formula (BH) (less than 2 mm I think on BH).

The racket without cutting the edges bc of the swelling and on a new V2 coming in at 169gs. Note if I cut the edges and transfer it to my old lighter blade thats a weight under 160gs.

The thing that needs to be said which I can detest to is that weight matters, strength matters.

As soon as I started playing with this racket I started to do a signature stroke on my BH I forgot I loved to do.

I am training tonight to see if the old rubber indeed been in cryo for 15 years. It has had a plastic cover and locked away. I think I might want a little more grip and speed but it is the right step.

The biggest difference is the BH flicksmash at high to higher balls.

As you can imagine the weak muscle points which is probably the least trained if you don't have a regular french off with white gloves with the neighbourhood Jojos (most won't get the reference).

So I notice that with each 10g I could do more stuff.

My theory right now is that forget about rubbers you cant bottom out. Me, I should probably not even play 2.0 mm on BH.

Also I should find a rubber I can bottom out so the blade can take over when needed. I still play heavy on my FH.

But now I have no idea to choose a f rubber besides maybe get Quattro but the new version but after that?

I need a Donic rubber expertise, but most are pips or OFF. How tf am I suppose to find someone who can recommend a ALL rubber at under 2 mm.

Well you have my life story here and if you want to try and help.

The thing about the BH rubber. I don't mind a bit of a bounce when less mm as long as it is slow enough to slice. I don't want anti or pips.

Speed I can generate, not as the pros because I am not as strong and the material will never generate as much and thats fine for now.

But still the wrist flicksmashes is enough as long as I have a weight that is or close to the feeling if and extension of my arm we are all good.

And every step towards lighter is great for now but I won't dwell into new blades unless the Allplay junior which could not be found in ST handle so I am better of having a regular V2 cut minor in width and height. I just know it will work for me and better.

So can you find a slower bit grippy rubber that can be activated but still under 2.0 mm I would be forever thankful.

I don't like Tenergy 64 or 05 (fx) they are to fast, bouncy.

 

[Metaxa]

The composition is in my signature:

 

[Lazer]

https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/neottec-amagi-all

This, ask for a weight in low end,then put some grip tape on it to move the center of gravity downwards. This is actually more important than the total weight.

Chinese tacky and non bouncy rubbers are rather hard and heavy unfortunately. I am using H3 (not Neo) orange sponge. Orange is lighter than blue, but a little less of everything… I use it because I want to keep my equipment within a reasonable weight too… I don’t know of any true lightweight rubbers that are not for beginners…

Good luck.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[mocker88]

If you need softer tacky rubbers you could check out these

Pimplepark - Epos (1.0-1.9mm)
Yinhe - Mercury II Soft
Giant Dragon - Submarine (a bit odd rubber)
729 - Phoenix
729 - Dragon F Medium-Soft
Yinhe - Mars III Euro
Yinhe - Big Dipper
DHS - Hurricane 8-80

 

[AdamH]

If you need softer tacky rubbers you could check out these

Pimplepark - Epos (1.0-1.9mm)
Yinhe - Mercury II Soft
Giant Dragon - Submarine (a bit odd rubber)
729 - Phoenix
729 - Dragon F Medium-Soft
Yinhe - Mars III Euro
Yinhe - Big Dipper
DHS - Hurricane 8-80

The problem with some that is called soft might have either softer topsheet or sponge.

Now Rakza 7 Soft is through and through soft.

Bought a 729 Supersoft FX. Most dead hard dried up piece of rubber except the tackyness.

Yesterdays training.

I really liked the 3-50 Soft 37 double boosted on FH. It gives more dwell, feeling, has a higher throw and boosted it landed inbetween a unboosted Neo 37 and boosted 37 without it having as dead spot because Neo as other rubbers might get a softer sponge after boost but it stretches the surface.

This end up in you need faster/more power in all or compensate with wrist.

That goes for straight loops aswell. Need to be more active with more power.

It is the advance returns or even the passive strokes you should focus on.

If you are ALL and not OFF player.

So the 3-50 close to perfect I realized yesterday on my FH. In this level I can win for a couple of months and by then organically I will have built muscles and developed enough because I know this speed isn't going to work versus higher end players.

Back to the BH. During the training i flipped and accidently played with the 3-50 on BH. While boosted it had more grip than my (15 year old) Donic Quattro Formula.

Still I loved the thinner rubber. However it was almost to slow so there deadspot activated when just doing simplrme BH to BH.

Yet while I get recommendations, trying to find Donic or equal material knowledgeable people.

I will most likely boost 2 3-50 and put it on a third blade. I should be at 170g after the boost cut rubber.

Might pick up a Donic Quattro but I need to find a hardware store item that can measure my old Quattro. I think it is 1.8.

Weird thing is that I like bottom it out on it for full on flicksmash or almost tennis brush it mid+ from table. Thinking with a bit more bit on a slower rubber like it I will be able to slice smash mid+. I did it 15 years ago. Loved it. Also love to loop with the racket full down towards table and instead clockwise I go from topp to bottom with perhaps a slight angle depending on distance and height.

Same as a reverse slide block with the blad hold down than up.

I achieve this with a slower rubber and blade and with a more bite I should be able to get nice speed from it.

If I got a even lighter blade and cut down the blad around and gone for a 1.9 or 2.0 mm I would be in serious business.

People talk about strength, most people have strength but lack speed. I am the opposite. But I am also not only OFF. I am the definition of ALL-over the place, because it is f fun trying to master it all.

Upping the speed is not fun. If you dont go ultra OFF. Most likely they will block your shot and it ends up in a opener and dead 50/50 game.

If you are 185 or longer you get advantage for reach.

These fundamentals most have no clue about so people talking and rdcommending have no clue what they talk about and say work on your technique like people should enjoy going to prison camp and run down excersises for 1.5 years. F that.

Most people play to fast blades they focus on a couple of shots, that is it. Main reason why majority is stuck.

A better player knows when to killshot.

Having the right material helps huuugely if you are not underdeveloped, beginner with your thumb in your hand and no sens of coordination och presence.

My friend has a long journey because he is a bit overweight but makes up for it with a strong fast wrist and has a 185 cm reach.

Yet stumble when moving around a bit.

Also regarding training you just need active communication with your partner to act when you have a bad technique.

Also in matches if one is to passive invites the opponent.

It isn't rocket science.

 

[AdamH]

https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/neottec-amagi-all

This, ask for a weight in low end,then put some grip tape on it to move the center of gravity downwards. This is actually more important than the total weight.

Chinese tacky and non bouncy rubbers are rather hard and heavy unfortunately. I am using H3 (not Neo) orange sponge. Orange is lighter than blue, but a little less of everything… I use it because I want to keep my equipment within a reasonable weight too… I don’t know of any true lightweight rubbers that are not for beginners…

Good luck.

Cheers
L-zr

You can read my reply what I wrote.

Well boosted 3-50 Soft (37) beats Neo (boosted or not) Soft (37) any given day.

Hurricane original is also better.

Well I got a blade 70g and now a 40g rubber on BH you dont need more than 2.0 if you are not a pro.

Also people dont understand the help you get from a 5-ply.

If you play hard wood or carbon you will push play or hope you are better OFF than your opponent or your winnings are depending on matchup.

At least with a slower blade you have more variety to place the ball.

People think they have reaction, reach when they usually have reach then it all ends when the ball goes to fast anf the perception and body isn't good enough.

Then they get stuck. Hobby players. I wouldn't even class this as intermediate if they platue becausr they reached their level to stubbirn and lazy to move past and maybe to old or not enough training in life in general or overweight.

Best players I met on this level played soft blades with topsheets. But they had strength in their flex but they played more short strokes like a gimp on a midget.

Me I play H3N for the long f strokes under the table because it is f fun. I would have played Rakza 7 Soft if it wasn't too Soft and lacked tackyness.

Anyone who loves feeling loves Rakza 7 Soft but all say the same. You can't even slice midhard balls cause if the bouncyness.

It is fun that it acts like a hard rubber when slicing.

Thr only downside with H3N and Neo is that even with Neo it lacks a bit of tensor.

Which is idiotic. Because just having a little would help getting the ball in in defensive balloon balls and longside blocks.

You need a professional strength to get it in proper.

Same as awkward short blocks, or passive from longside saves cross. Yes, china goes straight.

It is a f lottery if you are not rich as f finding obscure rubber that has everything.

I know what I want and my limits but TT sites sucks. Spend a f lifetime amongs people who don't put in the time and idiots who think they are good not pro and others just tells with their limit of test bench when never really gone into details of it.

TT isn't even my main sport. Was a pro in another.

Looking forward to open a store with most rubbers and blades. Tired with the amount of time people waste here.

 

[AdamH]

The composition is in my signature:

Regular Andro Hexer is quite hard I have heard. You play another version and 1.9.

Seems you play higher short and straight strokes with push and flickplay overall on this setup?

I mix play semi-long loops china H3N with smash since I am fast and agile and love deep looping and brush (tacky and spinn) with a nice curve on FH.

BH I want to bottom out and block. Thinking a bit grippier also love a bit of tacky than just mechanical grip.

My loop on BH when is performed is unconventional. I loop more from bottom to top on the edge, dragshot more.

From mid+, slower rubber and blade (thinner) allows you to do this when you are not as strong but fast.

I think 2.0 might be to much. So I should be between 1.8 and 1.9 rn.

Trying to find a Donic expert since I come from Donic setup but it was 15 years ago.

I am happy with the double boosted 3-50 right now.

Aiming to put another on BH until I decide a thinner rubber with a bit more grip than Donic Quattro Formula.

 

[Tyce]

Hi Adam, I have to admit I'm having a really hard time reading through your posts, but given that I have similar equipment experience, I feel like my opinion might be useful:
I have played (and still have in my closet) an Appelgren Allplay V1 which measures around 81-82 grams nowadays. I've played with this blade since junior, around the 2000's, up to 2010 when I stopped playing (still Celluloid 40mm)
From around 2005-2010 I've played with Joola Samba and Donic Quattro Formula on the FH, really nice, very light rubbers with a lot of life in them for ALL style. I feel like they work on soft shots up to mid-hard loops, pretty much everything you need as an ALL player.

Even before tensors, I preferred the softer topsheet of Vari Spin, and Donic Vario, over the tougher topsheets of Sriver and Mark V. For light-to-medium touch, a softer top just gives more options.

The Appelgren complements this with having a lot of flexibility - which makes your smashes and killshots really WHIP when you use the right timing. There's nothing quite like it.

I understand your weight issue. The Appelgren has a smaller head (at least mine does) and it feels very nimble, easy to quickly move around. When I started playing again in 2024, I got Rakza 7 and put it on the Appelgren - it suddely felt really heavy. The balance shifted toward the head and because it is a light blade, that balance is very delicate. So the shift in balance feels BIG.
I hated it. Also, Rakza 7 felt like it had a *really* big bounce reaction when holding the bat still.
Maybe the worst bit for me in hindsight: with the big shift in weight, the timing for whip shots changed. My smash has been significantly worse.

<end of introduction>

I spent a lot of effort finding something suitable in the past year.
Rakza 7: too heavy, too bouncy (although Donic Quattro Formula was VERY bouncy when it was new, too!)
*lots of Chinese rubbers*: they just don't work with my instincts. Also, basically the other side of the spectrum for bounciness.
Special mention: Palio AK47. Very light, 3 very different sponge hardnesses, very cheap. Downside, it's not very grippy on a pure brush, you have to dig into the sponge to apply spin, and the sponge wears off and dies after a few months.
Currently I have Nittaku Fastarc C-1 on by BH. I feel this is a very good allround rubber that's a bit similar to my memory of Quattro Formula. C-1 is a little bit more firm, but other than that I really like the allround qualities of it. It's a little lighter than Rakza 7 but not much, so that part is something I have to deal with. This is a rubber I'll probably stick with for a long time now, so for me it's a good match.

(I'm however no longer playing with the Appelgren but rather a light Korbel.)

 

[Metaxa]

Regular Andro Hexer is quite hard I have heard. You play another version and 1.9.

Seems you play higher short and straight strokes with push and flickplay overall on this setup?

I mix play semi-long loops china H3N with smash since I am fast and agile and love deep looping and brush (tacky and spinn) with a nice curve on FH.

BH I want to bottom out and block. Thinking a bit grippier also love a bit of tacky than just mechanical grip.

My loop on BH when is performed is unconventional. I loop more from bottom to top on the edge, dragshot more.

From mid+, slower rubber and blade (thinner) allows you to do this when you are not as strong but fast.

I think 2.0 might be to much. So I should be between 1.8 and 1.9 rn.

Trying to find a Donic expert since I come from Donic setup but it was 15 years ago.

I am happy with the double boosted 3-50 right now.

Aiming to put another on BH until I decide a thinner rubber with a bit more grip than Donic Quattro Formula.

Nay yet not. I play with the Gewo so on my FH and that is topspin from short & medium distance with lots of rotation (old style) I do/can do the same on my BH as my FH but use the Hexer Grip SFX mainly to block but can also use it to flip over the table.
I also used to play with Hexer Grip SFX but tried Rakza 7 soft for a while but then again I found it too soft. Good for blocking but topspin from half distance took far too much effort for me at my age.

 

[AdamH]

Hi Adam, I have to admit I'm having a really hard time reading through your posts, but given that I have similar equipment experience, I feel like my opinion might be useful:
I have played (and still have in my closet) an Appelgren Allplay V1 which measures around 81-82 grams nowadays. I've played with this blade since junior, around the 2000's, up to 2010 when I stopped playing (still Celluloid 40mm)
From around 2005-2010 I've played with Joola Samba and Donic Quattro Formula on the FH, really nice, very light rubbers with a lot of life in them for ALL style. I feel like they work on soft shots up to mid-hard loops, pretty much everything you need as an ALL player.

Even before tensors, I preferred the softer topsheet of Vari Spin, and Donic Vario, over the tougher topsheets of Sriver and Mark V. For light-to-medium touch, a softer top just gives more options.

The Appelgren complements this with having a lot of flexibility - which makes your smashes and killshots really WHIP when you use the right timing. There's nothing quite like it.

I understand your weight issue. The Appelgren has a smaller head (at least mine does) and it feels very nimble, easy to quickly move around. When I started playing again in 2024, I got Rakza 7 and put it on the Appelgren - it suddely felt really heavy. The balance shifted toward the head and because it is a light blade, that balance is very delicate. So the shift in balance feels BIG.
I hated it. Also, Rakza 7 felt like it had a *really* big bounce reaction when holding the bat still.
Maybe the worst bit for me in hindsight: with the big shift in weight, the timing for whip shots changed. My smash has been significantly worse.

<end of introduction>

I spent a lot of effort finding something suitable in the past year.
Rakza 7: too heavy, too bouncy (although Donic Quattro Formula was VERY bouncy when it was new, too!)
*lots of Chinese rubbers*: they just don't work with my instincts. Also, basically the other side of the spectrum for bounciness.
Special mention: Palio AK47. Very light, 3 very different sponge hardnesses, very cheap. Downside, it's not very grippy on a pure brush, you have to dig into the sponge to apply spin, and the sponge wears off and dies after a few months.
Currently I have Nittaku Fastarc C-1 on by BH. I feel this is a very good allround rubber that's a bit similar to my memory of Quattro Formula. C-1 is a little bit more firm, but other than that I really like the allround qualities of it. It's a little lighter than Rakza 7 but not much, so that part is something I have to deal with. This is a rubber I'll probably stick with for a long time now, so for me it's a good match.

(I'm however no longer playing with the Appelgren but rather a light Korbel.)

I do apologyze. I was clearly frustrated when writing and I thank you for your patience.

As stated I played when I was 8-12 then 22-25 and now 40.

I am in really good shape besides not having enought muscles built up to swing heavier bats yet.

2007-2010 I had a weight on 142-144g. Appelgren v2 and the Quattro Formula and Desto F3.

It is exactly as you say.

I played tournament yesterday with the 15 year old rubbet on my BH and a Hurricane on FH.

Did use rejuvinator on it but it doesn't have enough grip to flip the spin and with not enough grip I had no confidence unless the ball was high enought.

So currently organising all owned rubbers so far in stats, even the old ones and cross reference it with other. newer Donic rubbers.

Hopefully Donic rubbers keep on being close to as soft.

The thing is that is close to be Rakza 7 Soft but not as bouncey especially not on 2.0 even if the total is 3.9.

Bought myself a digital measuring tool lol.

I took home my friends 3-4 year old T05 (fx) and 64. I don't like the overall hardness.

So I have som reference points but since Revspin is an old page and people probably rate different between the years it is not going to be easy.

Regarding front weight. I don't mind it, just can't have too heavy of a racket.

I think many would benefit going even softer, slower blades tbh. I will pick up a Donic Def V3 and cut the blade.

Because I notice when the factory boost and surface wears out the ball goes further. The Hurricane 3-50 (37) has an all-time high wear out effect. From first 2-4 hours to 4 sessions. Then needs cleaning each hour but won't have resting effect until x time / session later.

I have zero issue since I am light and nimble. But building muscle takes time. So going lighter rubber is the way before the muscle growth locks in.

I am very happy with the 3-50 on the Appelgren. Only missed the table on some ballon blocks with 5 cm the other day.

So it is only BH and I fear the reality is 3-4 rubber to buy until I find the right BH rubber for a forseable future grinding points.

Late this year I will most likely go progressivly faster when I get better att chopping more counsciously. I slice mer hence why too bouncey and or faster / harder doesn't work since I don't chop hard close to the table yet.

And no, I won't train specific I have always played naturally and you try things automatic.

Training doesn't need to be a pain. Having right material is night and day.

So I will go back and train 1 session with 3-50 H3N on new V2 79-80gs.

Not ideal. I should have sticked them on my old V2 thats down at 71g and is slower.

But I will setup another 3-50 boosted with the new Donic I buy in hopefullu the week.

Fastarc rubbers C-1 or other I am curious about. Same as trying Glayzer on FH instead of H3N but I don't think it will be soft enough for my taste.

Anything less fast, less hard and bouncey as the Stiga Mantra Pro M will be a step up.

I do love a bit of stick just a little Whoever said or market Rakza 7 Soft or Dragon Grip as sticky should be removed from this orbit.

Give me a nice 2.0 mm just as Quattro Formula but with a bit more stick. Regular Quattro seems like a total dead, beginner rubber and the Quattro Formula is discountined.

Been looking at M3 but even their "Blue" line seems to be a gear or 2 too much. That is the sens I am getting.

If you have anything to add please do.

 

[AdamH]

Nay yet not. I play with the Gewo so on my FH and that is topspin from short & medium distance with lots of rotation (old style) I do/can do the same on my BH as my FH but use the Hexer Grip SFX mainly to block but can also use it to flip over the table.
I also used to play with Hexer Grip SFX but tried Rakza 7 soft for a while but then again I found it too soft. Good for blocking but topspin from half distance took far too much effort for me at my age.

I measured my old rubber, clocked in on 2.0 mm and overall 3.9 mm.

Soft (probably a bit due to 15 years old).

Added rejuvinator but it is clear it doesn't have to much grip and dies out on to hard or spinny balls to flip the spinn on.

Played 2 practices and a tournament yesterday. Everything is great, just a pinch more speed and grip. Question is if Donic has the same softness to rubbers that isn't as soft as Rakza 7 Soft.

Got to try Rakza again but on a old pair, funny how they hold up. Not too much difference on a new pair, couple of years and 7 years.

This was 2.0 or 1.8 mm. Didn't have my measuring tool with me. Curious to see how much they compensate the surface rubber when different sponge size.

Still sound you push. I don't push play at all really. If I do it is minimal and placement. It is because I have played very dominant FH until people play towards my BH til 90%.

Need a better BH to set up my FH but I want to incorperate my BH more because it is getting ridiculous.

It is hard not only changing perhaps brand but which mm.

I stated in another reply... As long as it is not as thicc, heavy, compact, hard, bouncey, tackless as Stiga Mantra Pro M 2.1 (Max) I should be better off.

Blade 1.
V2 Appelgren (15 y old) 71g a bit slower due to age.

Has Stiga Mantra Pro M 2.1 (Max) BH
Has DHS Hurricane Neo Soft 37 2.1(Max?) boosted on FH.

Both similar speed, a bit to fast, to low throw. Boosted Neo sucked even more than non boosted. The 3-50 and original much better. Might got a bad batch but that wasn't good. Perhaps Neo works better on not being on a 5-ply soft wood.

Total weight: 169g

Blade 2.
V2 Appelgren 79-80gs (new, faster than the old on).

Has Donic Quattro Formula (rejuvinated once), 15 year old well kept probably softer with age. 2.0mm total 3.9mm weights 37-39g. On BH.

Has DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft(Medium) 37 2.1 (Max?) boosted on FH.

Total weight: 167g

Blade 3.
V2 Appelgren 79-80gs (new, faster than the old on).

Has DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft(Medium) 37 2.1 (Max?) boosted on FH/BH.

Total weight: 176g

-

Note that the only reason for the Blade 1 to be as light as Blade 2 is due to the aging of the old V2.

So in theory Blade2 and Blade3 could be 8-9 grams lighter.

And be 158 or 167 gs.

-

My 15 y old setup with Donic Desto F3 also on 37-39 grams with the Quattro Formula had a total weight of 142-146g.

-

Now normal sized man that is not lean around 175 cm and at that time under 60 kg. I am now at 65 kg. Lost 7 kgs since november by tabletennis.

I don't have the normal strength. Every 10 grams have a huge impact.

Moving the racket for hits, wrist turning, going between FH and BH.

Also flex wrist for optimal spin servs.

So I notice with 2x Dragon Grip 2.3 (Max) going over 52-54 grams each wasn't the best new rubber to start with. Was at a weight of 184 g.

A little worried about putting the newly boosted ones on a new v2 instead of just gone for removing the Mantra Pro M and Neo. But now boosted it feels wrong to remove the 3-50. Still doesn't hurt to train a bit heavier. More that I am playing 5 days of tabletennis tournament next week.

Those 10 more grams doesn't do good in BH flicks and the higher they are the harder to do something useful when not stronk.

-

Just feels good to pick up the racket on 167 grams. Just love the 2.0 mm. Bit is probably the balance, since the offput isn't there.

Blade1 might be as heavy but it is more top heavy due to lighter blade and heavier rubber.

 

[impluse101]

Hi Adam, I have to admit I'm having a really hard time reading through your posts, but given that I have similar equipment experience, I feel like my opinion might be useful:
I have played (and still have in my closet) an Appelgren Allplay V1 which measures around 81-82 grams nowadays. I've played with this blade since junior, around the 2000's, up to 2010 when I stopped playing (still Celluloid 40mm)
From around 2005-2010 I've played with Joola Samba and Donic Quattro Formula on the FH, really nice, very light rubbers with a lot of life in them for ALL style. I feel like they work on soft shots up to mid-hard loops, pretty much everything you need as an ALL player.

Even before tensors, I preferred the softer topsheet of Vari Spin, and Donic Vario, over the tougher topsheets of Sriver and Mark V. For light-to-medium touch, a softer top just gives more options.

The Appelgren complements this with having a lot of flexibility - which makes your smashes and killshots really WHIP when you use the right timing. There's nothing quite like it.

I understand your weight issue. The Appelgren has a smaller head (at least mine does) and it feels very nimble, easy to quickly move around. When I started playing again in 2024, I got Rakza 7 and put it on the Appelgren - it suddely felt really heavy. The balance shifted toward the head and because it is a light blade, that balance is very delicate. So the shift in balance feels BIG.
I hated it. Also, Rakza 7 felt like it had a *really* big bounce reaction when holding the bat still.
Maybe the worst bit for me in hindsight: with the big shift in weight, the timing for whip shots changed. My smash has been significantly worse.

<end of introduction>

I spent a lot of effort finding something suitable in the past year.
Rakza 7: too heavy, too bouncy (although Donic Quattro Formula was VERY bouncy when it was new, too!)
*lots of Chinese rubbers*: they just don't work with my instincts. Also, basically the other side of the spectrum for bounciness.
Special mention: Palio AK47. Very light, 3 very different sponge hardnesses, very cheap. Downside, it's not very grippy on a pure brush, you have to dig into the sponge to apply spin, and the sponge wears off and dies after a few months.
Currently I have Nittaku Fastarc C-1 on by BH. I feel this is a very good allround rubber that's a bit similar to my memory of Quattro Formula. C-1 is a little bit more firm, but other than that I really like the allround qualities of it. It's a little lighter than Rakza 7 but not much, so that part is something I have to deal with. This is a rubber I'll probably stick with for a long time now, so for me it's a good match.

(I'm however no longer playing with the Appelgren but rather a light

Hmm..

Is R7 more bouncy than nittaku c-1 and/or nittaku factive?

 

[Tyce]

Hmm..

Is R7 more bouncy than nittaku c-1 and/or nittaku factive?

Yes, C1 is less reactive when you don't move the racket at all. But the differences are small, and if you want a rubber that's much better at this, don't pick either. You'd be better off with a classic rubber like Sriver.

 

[tomahawk11]

From my experience, people who require so light rackets, do so because they are using the small muscle groups to swing the racket. i.e. using pure wrist strength or pure arm strength.

For me, using a heavier racket (205g) has helped me a lot in developing my technique, relying more on the legs and core muscles.

 

[Ultravisitor]

Maybe yinhe mercury is the rubber you are looking for. It's cheap It's sticky/tacky and very easy to play.

 

[plunder]

tl;dr just adding my info, i play appelgren classique st, it was 79g ootb, now it's 77g due to some sanding and shortening. fantastic weight for an inexpensive popular blade. with 2024 mercury2 the racket total was under 155.00g. after renewing the rubbers (with 2025 mercury2) —i put too much Yinhe glue on my bad— the total is 160.14g (0.5g variation due to humidity/sweat). am happy with the 2025 sheets (they're tackier than the 2024 production units).

highly enjoyable setup. and when i lose a match, it's never because of this racket.

 

[AdamH]

From my experience, people who require so light rackets, do so because they are using the small muscle groups to swing the racket. i.e. using pure wrist strength or pure arm strength.

For me, using a heavier racket (205g) has helped me a lot in developing my technique, relying more on the legs and core muscles.

I do understand that but it is tedious knowing you would need a full year to actually be able to move it with power.

When you just can go lighter. I contacted Donic national retailer here in Sweden who also has the factory, same for Germany. None has a onlineshop.

When connected the guy on the serviceline said he has never had anyone call in for a request for the Allplay Appelgren junior.

I got help from a another reseller, he manage to get ahold of the flare versions. I play ST.

I got a V2 concave but the Donic concave is extreme.

Because a junior racket is a little slimmer. Timo boll jr. looks nice and if anyone could translate to producers I want to believe Timo is the one or one of those who can.

But as stated previously. When you find your gear thats 1 to 1 with you it is way more fun. I can play with any material but the quest is finding back a bit to the previous setup but I really liked Hurricane.

I still don't see myself playing with the same setup in 6-8 months from now.

I will be at a rank where better players will obliterate me on this setup.

 

[AdamH]

Maybe yinhe mercury is the rubber you are looking for. It's cheap It's sticky/tacky and very easy to play.

I will read up on it. When it is not a common rubber in once country it is hard to justify to go full rouge on a entity (brand) you have no clue about.

I have been in Stiga Showroom and tried every demo racket.

Loki.

Some BT rubber on Viscaria.

The rubber surface on the Loki I have tried is really weird feeling.

Dignics09c 05 to hard surface or through and through just like the T05 (fx) and T64.

Also Stiga series doesn't really work, tried 2 now and all on site.

Range of tensor not my playstyle. Hard to like the rubber.

I like a bit of Dwell time, a bit of stable tack, I wish there was a softer chinease with just a little tensor to help the ball in the most extreme balls.

Have a little list of rubbers that pop up a bit in conversation.

Fastarc, Hexer, Bluegrip, Big dipper, Glayzer. This was mainly for FH not BH tho.

 

[AdamH]

tl;dr just adding my info, i play appelgren classique st, it was 79g ootb, now it's 77g due to some sanding and shortening. fantastic weight for an inexpensive popular blade. with 2024 mercury2 the racket total was under 155.00g. after renewing the rubbers (with 2025 mercury2) —i put too much Yinhe glue on my bad— the total is 160.14g (0.5g variation due to humidity/sweat). am happy with the 2025 sheets (they're tackier than the 2024 production units).

highly enjoyable setup. and when i lose a match, it's never because of this racket.

Yeah.

I played Appelgren V2 15 years ago have 5 blades. The old is at 71g. Have one wanting to sell a V1 at 68g.

New V2 at 79 or 80.

Want to have a slight concave but not as the full adult version.

When you have thinner finger, hands it becomes to much contrast. Because BH might feel great but you get to locked in. Takes to much time readjusting grip to FH then.

So I stick with ST til the time I can either get my hands on a narrow concave or brush a concave handle down and maybe remove a bit from the bottom.

Also what rubber is it like?

I played at 142-146gs 15 years ago. Now at 167-169. If I swap to the old V2 I get under 160 to 158.

I don't think I need to lighter. It is more about finding the right BH right now.

Also good for you having a light setup you like and cannot blame.

 

[Tyce]

How about getting a ST and filing/sanding the handle to the shape you prefer?