Three set ups, three questions, 21 opinions?

[andymagata]

I have three forehand set ups (rubber + blade) and I am very interested in knowing what the community thinks about it. So, I have three questions. Setups are:

Stiga Pure 7 ply all wood rounded shape with Joola Rhyzen Fire
Yasaka Ma Lin Extra offensive 5 ply hardwood with Stiga Mantra Pro M
Sanwei 75 Super PBO inner with Loki Rxton 3 Green

I am interested in which will create the most spin in three different situations. I know that there are so many variables to consider, but one can only try to simplify. Maybe assume that it is an intermediate player trying the strokes.

1 Short topspin serve
2 Long push (backspin) on top of the table
3 Forehand loop from behind and below table baseline

Or, just tell me which set up you would prefer and why.

For the number of options, 21, it confuses me. I cannot understand it mathematically. I even asked Copilot AI about it, but it is not able to explain it to me in understandable words. But 21 is my best conclusion according to my current understanding.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

for such complex life defining moments; what would Chatgpt advise? I wonder...:

 

[merlin el mago]

To create more spin you need:
-grippy rubber
-flex blade
-skills, that's the more important 85-90%, equipment only 10-15%
-to have more & better skills you need training but not alone or with team mates, you need seriously a very good coach to improve.

 

[Tyce]

I have three forehand set ups (rubber + blade) and I am very interested in knowing what the community thinks about it. So, I have three questions. Setups are:

Stiga Pure 7 ply all wood rounded shape with Joola Rhyzen Fire
Yasaka Ma Lin Extra offensive 5 ply hardwood with Stiga Mantra Pro M
Sanwei 75 Super PBO inner with Loki Rxton 3 Green

I am interested in which will create the most spin in three different situations. I know that there are so many variables to consider, but one can only try to simplify. Maybe assume that it is an intermediate player trying the strokes.

1 Short topspin serve
2 Long push (backspin) on top of the table
3 Forehand loop from behind and below table baseline

Or, just tell me which set up you would prefer and why.

For the number of options, 21, it confuses me. I cannot understand it mathematically. I even asked Copilot AI about it, but it is not able to explain it to me in understandable words. But 21 is my best conclusion according to my current understanding.

The answer has nothing to do with mathematics, options, variations or anything.

None of your combinations are unsuited for the situations you have set out. They're all perfectly capable of allowing an intermediate player to play a proper spinny ball on all three situations.
It's all about timing your movements correctly here, and when you have enough table time with all of these setups, after a while the results will converge and become the same.

Theoretically, the Ma Lin Extra Offensive might be the hardest learning curve, due to hardwood simply being more elastic and thus requiring more accurate timing. On the other hand, a harder base allows for easier engagement of the sponge. See? It's complicated when you try and approach it theoretically. If, instead of taking 15 minutes to write out your post, you would have spent 15 minutes at the table with one bat, even that little bit of experience could have turned the results around already

So the annoyingly boring answer is: the bat you use the most.

 

[andymagata]

for such complex life defining moments; what would Chatgpt advise? I wonder...:

I get it. It is not a life defining moment decision. So it doesn’t matter.

Using ANTI as your fh rubber for the rest of your life would.

 

[andymagata]

To create more spin you need:
-grippy rubber
-flex blade
-skills, that's the more important 85-90%, equipment only 10-15%
-to have more & better skills you need training but not alone or with team mates, you need seriously a very good coach to improve.

10-15 % is a lot though. That is several points every game! Or could be the difference of loosing 0-11 or winning 11-9.

 

[andymagata]

The answer has nothing to do with mathematics, options, variations or anything.

None of your combinations are unsuited for the situations you have set out. They're all perfectly capable of allowing an intermediate player to play a proper spinny ball on all three situations.
It's all about timing your movements correctly here, and when you have enough table time with all of these setups, after a while the results will converge and become the same.

Theoretically, the Ma Lin Extra Offensive might be the hardest learning curve, due to hardwood simply being more elastic and thus requiring more accurate timing. On the other hand, a harder base allows for easier engagement of the sponge. See? It's complicated when you try and approach it theoretically. If, instead of taking 15 minutes to write out your post, you would have spent 15 minutes at the table with one bat, even that little bit of experience could have turned the results around already

So the annoyingly boring answer is: the bat you use the most.

Thanks, maybe this is the answer I didn’t know I wanted.

I actually played the Yasaka for 30 minutes myself before work. And that was the inspiration for the post because I thought that all my shots were spinnier compared to Loki Rxton and Sanwei. Maybe because the Mantra rubber helped on these shots where ball has very low speed.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I have three forehand set ups (rubber + blade) and I am very interested in knowing what the community thinks about it. So, I have three questions. Setups are:

Stiga Pure 7 ply all wood rounded shape with Joola Rhyzen Fire
Yasaka Ma Lin Extra offensive 5 ply hardwood with Stiga Mantra Pro M
Sanwei 75 Super PBO inner with Loki Rxton 3 Green

I am interested in which will create the most spin in three different situations. I know that there are so many variables to consider, but one can only try to simplify. Maybe assume that it is an intermediate player trying the strokes.

1 Short topspin serve
2 Long push (backspin) on top of the table
3 Forehand loop from behind and below table baseline

Or, just tell me which set up you would prefer and why.

For the number of options, 21, it confuses me. I cannot understand it mathematically. I even asked Copilot AI about it, but it is not able to explain it to me in understandable words. But 21 is my best conclusion according to my current understanding.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I copied and pasted your whole post into Chatgpt and ask him what is his answer. To cut the story short, Chat told me to tell you choose Yasaka MLEO with Stiga Mantra Pro M.

 

[andymagata]

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I copied and pasted your whole post into Chatgpt and ask him what is his answer. To cut the story short, Chat told me to tell you choose Yasaka MLEO with Stiga Mantra Pro M.

Oh no, now AI will tell people that Stiga pure with Rhyzen Fire is a popular set up!

 

[merlin el mago]

Again:

-What's the grippiest rubber that you want to use?
-What's the flexiest blade that you want to use?

That's easy!

 

[victormanriquey]

Spin depends mostly on your technique, whether you just brush a bit of you truly engage sponge and blade. So let's say 70-80% technique, 20-30% equipment. But because you only asked about the equipment, I'll try to make it at simple as I can:

First check the blade's stiffness (elasticity is not the same, but let's say they are the same for this exercise). The more it flexes, the more dwell and thus the more spin potential. So let's see which one is more flexible:
- Stiga Pure is 7 plies with a limba top.
- Ma lin is 5 plies but with a walnut top.
- Sanwei 75 is a viscaria copycat with ALC and koto top

In theory, the stiga pure and the ma lin should be the ones with the most flexibility only looking at wood properties and amount of plies, the more plies, the least flex (in principle). Walnut is significantly harder than limba but elasticity wise, they are similar (walnut is stiffer though). In any case, 5 plies but stiffer and 7 plies and less stiff, gives you pretty much the same flexibility for us mortals to feel a significant difference.

Then the rubbers, at very low speed impact, a very soft rubber will produce more spin as the ball sinks in and activates the sponge more (i.e. big pores / flexy walls, pips arranged in a more disperse way). Hard tacky rubbers (small pores, hard walls, pips arranged densely) can only produce spin at low speeds with the topsheet. At hard impact, it will be viceversa as the sponge of the hard rubber can store more energy. This means:
- At low speed impact, the rhyzen and mantra have a softer sponge, so differences will come to how grippy the topsheet is, they are both non-tacky. Probably similar spin at low speed.
- At high speed impact, the loki with a harder sponge and tackier sheet with always win.

So in essence: is your technique good and can you hit through?
- Then Stiga Pure or Ma Lin depending on whether you want a softer or harder feel
- And Loki rubber

Hope this analysis helps @andymagata It's not that hard, but it takes time to go into the details. Also, technique is still the key factor. Send me a DM if you need more details!