Variations within the same blade model

[returnee]

Hello everyone once again.
Since I’ve been involved in table tennis for a very long time (with shorter and longer breaks, for more than 40 years), I have a question for all of you.


Have you noticed how much different blades of the same model can vary?
And I don’t mean only small nuances in play, but sometimes quite fundamental and important differences — such as how easy it is to attack, the level of control in blocking, service receive, and so on.


This is not only about cheaper blade models, but also about premium-class blades.
For example, in our club we have at least five Timo Boll ALC blades, and four of them use exactly the same rubbers. None of them plays exactly the same — even though I glued all of them myself, using the same glue.


For my hand and my feeling, one particular blade is clearly better than all the others. This is not only my opinion, but also the opinion of much more experienced and stronger players than me. No matter which rubbers are mounted on it, that good feeling never disappears.


Interestingly, this blade is from the X series, while there are also some older ones that simply don’t play like this one. It weighs 85 g, and its frequency is around 1460 Hz.
For example, with that particular blade you can literally close your eyes and block any topspin rally to the same spot during practice.
Even if you intentionally open the racket angle a bit, the ball still lands on the table instead of flying long.
With any of the other four blades, this is much less possible.


So my question is:
Have others noticed this phenomenon with certain blade models — that there are good, bad, and even exceptional or very poor specimens within the same model?


If the answer is yes, I would also like to ask:
How do you approach buying a completely new or a second-hand blade when a proper 2-hour test is not possible?
What do you look for?
What do you listen to?
Any tips or experiences would be very welcome.


Edit ... All of this is not related only to the blade’s weight. There is another specimen that also weighs 85 g and has a frequency of around 1465 Hz, yet it plays quite differently.
It is not a bad blade at all, but it is clearly a level below the best specimen I mentioned.

 

[mihalichtheone]

So my question is:
Have others noticed this phenomenon with certain blade models — that there are good, bad, and even exceptional or very poor specimens within the same model?

Of course, it happens with any blade manufacturer, even Butterfly. Wood is wood, it's all different.
People claim that with BTY or Stiga or other 'premium' brand it's different, however I find that the variation is just less than with cheaper blades.

If the answer is yes, I would also like to ask:
How do you approach buying a completely new or a second-hand blade when a proper 2-hour test is not possible?
What do you look for?
What do you listen to?
Any tips or experiences would be very welcome.

Option 1: become rich. Buy 100 blades and choose 3 out of them.
Option 2: become a pro and find sponsorship. Get 100 blades and choose 3 out of them.

I personally find that carbon blades have less variation due to the stiffness of carbon itself, especially on outer carbon blades. It gives good support so wood matters less. It's a lottery.

I just don't bother, I pick one and play and see for myself

It is not a bad blade at all, but it is clearly a level below the best specimen I mentioned.

There you go. People are very good at adapting and one can adapt to 'worse' blade, however for the field where it really matters (pro scene, really) there's sponsorship.

Nittaku is quite good in terms of consistency, btw. For some reason it's very underestimate in the pro scene.

 

[returnee]

Yes, I understand everything you wrote. Very few of us are wealthy enough to buy that much equipment, and becoming a sponsored player is even harder 🙂.


On the other hand, we are all aware that blades are made from living materials, and that it is impossible for two pieces to be 100% identical. We also know that playing skills and feel vary greatly from player to player.


Still, wouldn’t it be simpler if well-known manufacturers did some additional testing themselves and, for example, selected 3–5 premium specimens out of 30 blades, and offered them as premium pieces — even if they cost two or three times more than the average ones? Especially when it comes to expensive blades from their premium lines.


In such testing, human players wouldn’t even be necessary in the first stage. Machines could be used to measure differences in sound and rebound with glued rubbers, especially in the zone where the ball most frequently contacts the blade, in order to determine the size of the sweet spot.


Additionally, two or three short sessions (for example, two minutes each) with a good robot could further confirm the sweet spot size and consistency.


Once the selection is narrowed down from 30 blades to, say, 3 specimens, then a human player could test them for a few minutes each.


I know there are many more factors that make a blade truly exceptional, and that it is very difficult to determine this without longer-term use. However, such testing could at least provide initial guidelines as to which specimens are closest to being truly outstanding.


Then you set a higher price — and whoever wants it, can buy it.

All of this is just a current idea of mine, based on many blades I have tested throughout my life.
I know that this is probably not even 30% enough to declare a blade a true premium specimen, but simply from basic physical principles, I believe that every premium blade has a larger sweet spot than an average one

Because when you look at the specifications of a blade from a well-known manufacturer — where it says, for example: speed A, control B, stiffness C — and later you have four specimens of that same blade, and you discover that the actual speed ranges from 75% of A to 125% of A, and the same applies to B and C, then you realize that, in a way, the manufacturer has misled you.
Especially when you have paid $200 or more for that blade.

 

[mihalichtheone]

Yes, I understand everything you wrote. Very few of us are wealthy enough to buy that much equipment, and becoming a sponsored player is even harder 🙂.


On the other hand, we are all aware that blades are made from living materials, and that it is impossible for two pieces to be 100% identical. We also know that playing skills and feel vary greatly from player to player.


Still, wouldn’t it be simpler if well-known manufacturers did some additional testing themselves and, for example, selected 3–5 premium specimens out of 30 blades, and offered them as premium pieces — even if they cost two or three times more than the average ones? Especially when it comes to expensive blades from their premium lines.


In such testing, human players wouldn’t even be necessary in the first stage. Machines could be used to measure differences in sound and rebound with glued rubbers, especially in the zone where the ball most frequently contacts the blade, in order to determine the size of the sweet spot.


Additionally, two or three short sessions (for example, two minutes each) with a good robot could further confirm the sweet spot size and consistency.


Once the selection is narrowed down from 30 blades to, say, 3 specimens, then a human player could test them for a few minutes each.


I know there are many more factors that make a blade truly exceptional, and that it is very difficult to determine this without longer-term use. However, such testing could at least provide initial guidelines as to which specimens are closest to being truly outstanding.


Then you set a higher price — and whoever wants it, can buy it.

All of this is just a current idea of mine, based on many blades I have tested throughout my life.
I know that this is probably not even 30% enough to declare a blade a true premium specimen, but simply from basic physical principles, I believe that every premium blade has a larger sweet spot than an average one

Because when you look at the specifications of a blade from a well-known manufacturer — where it says, for example: speed A, control B, stiffness C — and later you have four specimens of that same blade, and you discover that the actual speed ranges from 75% of A to 125% of A, and the same applies to B and C, then you realize that, in a way, the manufacturer has misled you.
Especially when you have paid $200 or more for that blade.

The testing approach you describe sounds very interesting.

There's so much speculation that Blue Label Stiga Dynasty Carbon Xu Xin edition is 'softer', more solid, has better feeling on the Chinese forums and videos, however ttd tested and said these are completely the same...

By mentioning that I mean that there's a chance already that some blades are indeed priced higher and have higher/stricter QC, but who knows.

 

[Tyce]

Very roughly put you have a good point.
When the veneers and fibers are bonded well, no bubbles, excess glue, the result should be fairly uniform > large effective hitting area.

I think a large component here is skill based:
- a reliable, well controlled manufacturing process
- good quality assurance
- material selection

But there's always a matter of luck with warping, getting a bad batch of glue, those silly things. And materials are subject to availability, too.

 

[Lazer]

Don’t forget rubbers varies too…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[returnee]

I believe that changing an already established production process — changing the type of glue, the pressure applied during pressing, the duration of pressing, and so on — is simply unrealistic for any manufacturer. Especially considering that each of them has 20, 30, or even 50 different blade models in their lineup.


On top of that, wood is a living material and naturally varies from batch to batch. There is probably a well-defined production template for each blade model, but changes within that individual template would be unacceptable and would most likely lead to worse final results than what we currently have. Production would become much slower and quality consistency much more uncertain.


However, once the blades are finished, it seems to me that some parameters could be determined quite easily — parameters that we, as regular users, cannot reliably measure.


What can we do? We tap the blade with our finger, look for a certain weight, measure it, try to estimate the highest rebound frequency using a phone app, listen, observe, and guess how it might play with one rubber or another — and that’s basically it.


A factory, on the other hand, could very easily determine things like sweet spot size, speed, and stiffness. Who knows — maybe they already do this, just so that sponsored players have far fewer blades to test, instead of having to go through 50 specimens at once 🙂. Whatever remains then goes to retail and is sold to regular players.


I know this is a very complex topic — many players, many different hands, many different techniques, players of very different levels, and so on. Rubbers also significantly change the overall behavior of a racket.

Still, I am convinced that a premium specimen of a blade will always perform better with a wide variety of rubbers. All racket parameters — speed, throw angle, control level, spin potential, amount of good vibrations and bad vibrations, etc. — may shift slightly up or down, but overall the racket will always be better compared to the same setup built on an average specimen of the blade. Overall, the racket will offer greater control and predictability.

This is just my personal opinion on all of this. I simply want what we pay for to match what is described in the manufacturer’s specifications. And we are all aware that, in practice, this is often not the case. If that is so, then the manufacturer should clearly state that certain deviations are possible within a given range or percentage.

Edit:
Rubbers are also something of a taboo topic among us regular table tennis players who are not professionals. I somehow can’t forget everything I heard here:

…and some of Damien Éloi’s facial expressions there are simply priceless 🙂.

 

[Tyce]

I do know that next time I want to buy a new blade, I'll be going to the store and comparing a few specimens of the same model.

 

[TTWiz]

Whenever I buy a blade online, I always ask for a specific weight before placing the order.


But I have never actually asked about the blade’s frequency (Hz) before.
To be honest, I also doubt that this is a service many shops actually offer.

 

[returnee]

It is really rare to see such a brave and open interview with a top-level player being done by a major table tennis equipment retailer like Table Tennis 11 from Estonia.
Hats off to the retailer!

I even have a small feeling that Alex from Table Tennis 11 asked Damien all of these questions not only for the viewers, but partly for himself as well 🙂.

I don’t know if they are present here on the forum, but I think they could explain many things related to selecting the best possible blade, because they are truly fair and professional.
I have purchased from them many times, and everything has always been handled perfectly.

 

[Liquid Sky]

I have over 20 years of experience building table tennis blades.
In my opinion, blades have objective, measurable properties. Saying “I like one of my five blades more” describes a subjective experience, and that can have many reasons. However, it is very likely that those five blades also differ in their objective characteristics.
Even Butterfly blades, which are widely regarded as having excellent quality control, can show noticeable variations—sometimes even within the same model.
For example, I own two Timo Boll Spirit blades. One is 5.6 mm thick and weighs 88 g, the other is over 6.0 mm thick and weighs 95 g.
These are extreme cases, but differences can also be subtle. I once measured two Fan Zhendong ALC blades bought at the same time. Their overall weight and thickness were almost identical, yet the individual veneers inside the blades were not. If one blade has 4.0 mm of wood between the ALC layers and another has 4.2 mm, the second blade will be stiffer and faster—even if the total thickness is the same.
Another factor people often overlook is weight distribution. Veneers vary in density. Two blades can have the same total weight, but one may have a 20 g handle and the other a 25 g handle. Manufacturers sometimes hollow out handles or add weight to reach a target range.
I have seen all of this firsthand, for example when repairing blades.

 

[returnee]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

What is also interesting is that I could recognize that blade by sound alone. Without playing on the table at all, it is enough just to bounce the ball lightly on the racket.

Its sound is a short, crisp “click” over a large area of the rubber — it sounds almost the same across most of the surface where the ball usually makes contact during play. This applies both to the center of the rubber and toward the tip and edges of the blade.

I’m not sure how to describe this more precisely, but if my memory serves me well, it is very similar to the sound that good rackets used to make long ago when rubbers were glued with the old speed glue, which has been banned for a long time.

On the other hand, the other blades have more or less a “bounce” sound, especially when the ball hits the very center of the racket, which is the most common contact point. On those blades, the short “click” sound is present only in a small area in the middle of the rubber, usually closer to the tip of the blade. That area is much smaller than on this best specimen.

This “bounce” sound is longer and deeper than the “click” sound — as if you are hitting a small drum that produces a deeper, longer sound with some resonance.

I am quite sure that I could recognize this racket even in a blind test among four blades, without playing on the table at all.

One more thing I forgot to mention: all TB ALC blades have Tibhar MX-P rubbers, and all of them are glued with Revolution No. 3 glue. So this is not about the gluing — I am certain of that, since I glued all the rackets myself. The rubbers are also approximately the same age.

I fully understand that the feeling of a blade is strongly related to the player, their preferences, and their technique, and I am not saying that the other three blades are bad. However, everyone agrees (including several very strong players) that this particular specimen offers clearly better control compared to the others.

I honestly cannot explain this in any other way than that this blade has an exceptionally large sweet spot.

If we didn’t have this blade in our club, we probably wouldn’t have noticed any of this, because the other specimens are quite consistent and good — just not outstanding like this one.

So, based on all this experience, does anyone have an idea how to identify such differences when you are in a shop, with four brand-new blades in front of you, where you cannot glue rubbers, but can only tap them with your finger, listen to the sound, etc.?

 

[lodro]

I do know that next time I want to buy a new blade, I'll be going to the store and comparing a few specimens of the same model.

not likely because it would involve taking many blades out of the original package and often now out of the heat shrink. Can't immagine a shop willing to do this.

 

[Wheeljuke]

Hi there, I have bought numerous blades(39+) and tested(~100) though out my short table tennis career of 2 years. I would like to share some of my thoughts.

1. Sound of the balde
It can tell you a lot about the blade it self. First of all theres 2 ways of testing "Sound of the balde": knocking the blade with your index finger knuckle and knocking the blade on to your head.
1-1 Index finger knuckle knocking
Hold the blade with 2 fingers by the center of the handle. Knock the different areas of the blade testing out how the blade sounds, the sweet spot area and the clearness of the blade(Damaged blade might have a slight rattle sound). This tests out how the blade react to the impact of the ball similar to dwell time and crispiness of some Butterfly ALC blades. Higher frequency means harder upon impact and less dwell time, the crisper the sound the crisper the ball.
1-2 Head knocking
Hold the blade by the head with 2 fingers. Knock on your head(slightly more outer than your eye, around coronal suture of the skull to be precise) the blade should vibrate around your ear. This tests out how the blade flex longitudinally and how the virbration is absorbed, for Butterfly blades(Higher frequency) there very little flex and great damping due to Kiri core , while DHS blades(Lower frequency) have larger flex and less resorption due to Ayous core.

Heat shrink wraps don't affect the test much, since our accuracy isn't that high anyway with insufficient traning.

2. Blade manufacturing
Quality timber is hard to come by. Manufacturers have their way to compensate: Butterfly have technologies to allow Kiri core wood joints, DHS have Ayous core compression tech. However wood is the primary reason for individual differences among the same model. As it's hard and practically impossible to test each ply of the blade for physical properties upon impact prior to assembly, manufacturer opted to use artifical fiber weaves and glue as their primary method for tuning.

Larger manufactures with good quality control e.g. Butterfly(DHS, Stiga have noticably worse quality control), can reduce the differences among invidual blades within the same batch. However comparison between batches or series doesn't reflect quality control. It's well known that Butterfly adjusts the structure, fiber weave of Butterfly Viscaria every year to better suit the need of the consumer market.

Poor quality control can stem from numerous factors, from uneven thickness of each blade ply, to air voids between plys, not to mention the quality of the materials used. For example the glue used by Butterfly lasts longer than other manufacturers, with much greater longevity than DHS or Stiga blades.

Thank you for reading such as long article. Hope this helps. Ask me anything and I'll try to explain it to my best.

 

[Tyce]

not likely because it would involve taking many blades out of the original package and often now out of the heat shrink. Can't immagine a shop willing to do this.

I know two shops that have bare blades on display for all brands, and they allow you to feel and bounce a ball if you actually show some intent to buy.
I also know shops that don't do it at all. But I don't go there (guess why).

Lucky for me the shop that is also the Butterfly distributor is one of the good ones.

 

[returnee]

Here are the sound recordings of two Timo Boll ALC blades with MX-P max rubber.
The test was done by a teammate from my club who owns that “best” specimen. The second Timo Boll ALC blade was borrowed from another player who lives in the same building as him – they are neighbors.

I asked him to record two different types of ball bouncing.
First, with the ball bouncing relatively high, about 50–70 cm, and second, with a lower bounce, around 20–30 cm from the rubber surface. From the rhythm of the bounces, you can quite easily notice whether the ball was bouncing higher or lower. Only one hand was used for the test.

You can judge for yourselves which blade has the better and more consistent sound.

The only mistake is that the phone used for recording seems to have been too close to the racket, so moving the racket closer to or farther from the phone’s microphone noticeably increases or decreases the volume. But that’s not crucial here. I also told him to move the ball a bit toward the edges of the rubber, so that the difference in sound could be heard as clearly as possible. This would also be a kind of “blind test” for all of us, because even I didn’t know which blade was his, No. 1 or No. 2 ? 🙂

Anyway, here are the recordings:

 

[vanjr]

If you want two blades to be as close to the same as possible, you have to go custom and order two at the same time and talk with your builder so they can use adjacent pieces of wood and know what you want.

I see variation is every blade that I have more than one. For commercial blades the best you can do is buy two at the same time, hope they are from the same lot and ask for the same weight. That said there are so many variables in table tennis that most of us are WAY overthinking things. Buy a couple blades, train with them, use the favorite for important club or tournament play and hope you don't hit it on the table.

 

[TareqPhoto]

This topic is the reason why me or so many people just keep changing or upgrading their rackets, we always looking for perfectionism one way or another, i came to a conclusion of that if i can't be Ma Long or FZD or any of those 500 top players then i shouldn't keep looking for that perfect blade, because i know i will always feel that there is something better a bit/slightly somewhere, then i decided that i just choose a brand then i buy a higher popular model within that brand and be done with that, so i went with DHS and so i chose Long 5 as the type of blade i want regardless of other options, if i return back to Butterfly then my choice will not be out of 3-4 models [FZD, TB, JM and Harimoto], i tried Viscaria and didn't like much over other options.