What is the closest ESN equivalent to Spring Sponge nowadays?

[Tyce]

Hey guys and gals! As the quest for my next rubber combination has started, I find myself more and more intrigued by the feeling that Spring Sponge gives.
So I know that I would be fine just getting something like Glayzer, and have a rubber more or less around the level of C-1 and Rakza 7. However, I was wondering with all the copy/paste work going on in the industry if there has been any ESN rubber that emulates the feeling you get with Tenergy?

I'm talking about that longggg but controlled stretch, easy to engage the sponge, and that soft, yet clear feeling.

G-1 does something similar, but has a clear gear-shift and the effect is only there on higher impact shots
C-1 has a different sponge that feels too compact (in comparison)
R7 feels *very* close to C-1

(I might want to experiment putting booster on G-1, see if that "fixes" the problem)

What are the current-day closest equivalents to spring sponge rubbers?

 

[K.K]

for me butterfly always had a different feeling and if you like it then it is quite hard to find elsewhere. some other japanese produced rubber come close like nexy etika or stiga mantra series, you can try them and maybe like them even more, but they still have their own DNA. it doesn’t matter for playing and i find everything except the dignics series pretty boring… since you already play g-1 that is one of the best esn rubbers i would say: if you rely so heavily on feeling that you go the path of wanting to boost the g-1 better stop and buy yourself a tenergy and be happy and play

 

[Airoc]

I think K.K. is right.
There is a distinctive "Japanese" feeling, and then there is the Butterfly feeling.
It´s all hard to pin down, but numerous t05 players stick to their rubber because it gives them that particular feeling. Also, after such a long time, they know exactly how much of what to put on the sponge to make the feeling even better
The closest to t05 I have felt a rubber play was Evolution MX-D. Somehow between the recipe of the topsheet and the harder sponge they hit a certain mark. But if I´d say that in direct comaprison on the same blade is a different story.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Not going to argue on the feeling part because is too subjective but instead will argue on the physical property part.
The closest / logical choice will be Andro Rasanter series with Energy Cell technology. If you read the brochure, the tech is pretty ESN’s copy-cat version of se-pe-rin-ger se-pon-ji.

 

[latej]

I'm talking about that longggg but controlled stretch, easy to engage the sponge, and that soft, yet clear feeling.

If you like looongggg stretch/hold, try Andro Hexer.

 

[golden_son]

I agree that nothing quite feels like Butterfly. I don't know what it is, but then again if anybody did then Butterfly wouldn't continue to command their market share...

The closest I've found--and a rubber I really like--is Xiom Omega V Tour. I haven't tried Xiom's other carbo-sponge offerings from that era to know if they feel similar, but I could see myself going back to the OVT when it's on sale. (Currently it's around the same price as Glayzer, so I'm on Glayzer for now.) Rasanter isn't bad but doesn't really feel like Spring Sponge and they die quickly. Mantra Pro feels more like ESN than BTY; way better at flat- and counter-hitting than spinning.

the tech is pretty ESN’s copy-cat version of se-pe-rin-ger se-pon-ji.

FWIW, the romanization is supuringu suponji.

If you like looongggg stretch/hold, try Andro Hexer.

Interesting. I've had this on my list of possible BH rubbers to try, but always pass it up due to its generation.

 

[NetProphet]

Hey guys and gals! As the quest for my next rubber combination has started, I find myself more and more intrigued by the feeling that Spring Sponge gives.
So I know that I would be fine just getting something like Glayzer, and have a rubber more or less around the level of C-1 and Rakza 7.

Interesting
I would have classed the regular Glayzer above Rakza 7 for sure.
I might be wrong but I have the feeling that you are overestimating the R7 or underestimating the Glayzer here? Be interested in anyone's direct comparison here, it's too long since I played R7 so I can't remember properly....

However, I was wondering with all the copy/paste work going on in the industry if there has been any ESN rubber that emulates the feeling you get with Tenergy?

I have not come across a player yet who found a sponge to replace their Tenergy. Some moved to Dignics and stayed, some came back.

If you already like the Butterfly effect then I think you will only waste time and money looking for something like it and finally conclude that looking for a copy when you have the real thing was pointless to begin with.

 

[Tyce]

Interesting
I would have classed the regular Glayzer above Rakza 7 for sure.
I might be wrong but I have the feeling that you are overestimating the R7 or underestimating the Glayzer here? He interested in anyone's direct comparison here, it's too long since I played R7 so I can't remember properly....

I have not come across a player yet who found a sponge to replace their Tenergy. Some moved to Dignics and stayed, some came back.

If you already like the Butterfly effect then I think you will only waste time and money looking for something like it and finally conclude that looking for a copy when you have the real thing was pointless to begin with.

I don't have practical experience with Glayzer other than a few test bounces yet so I'm interested, too. On paper I would probably put it between R7 and G1, which is pretty much where I want to be. I'm also curious about Rozena so I might get a sheet of both and stick it on a bat.
I really need to visit the store again and just have a hit with the demo bats.

 

[golden_son]

Having played both R7 and Glayzer (and G-1), I would put both Glayzer and G-1 above R7 in terms of overall performance. They're all fairly linear, but G-1 and Glayzer have a little bit of a "steeper" line on the input-output graph, if that makes sense. You get a little bit more for your give at the middle and top end. I find Glayzer easier to activate than G-1/better for open-ups but G-1 has maybe the fastest top-end of the three if you can drive through it. (Despite Glayzer being harder, it often feels softer than G-1.) I also prefer Glayzer for serves, probably because of the ball biting more into the topsheet compared to G-1.

Personally I feel like G-1 demands more technically-proficient play. People take the fairly linear response curve to mean "forgiving," and I don't think that'sthe right word. It doesn't shoot as wildly if you hit poorly, but it also doesn't perform to its best if you're not hitting firmly and cleanly. It's a lot more like D09c in that regard than people give it credit for, I think.

Rozena I found OK. It's weirdly bouncy and slow at the same time. Loops are very safe but non-threatening. I like the arc though, at least on BH. Blocks are a little hard to control. I don't love it, but it does feel like Tenergy-lite as advertised.

 

[Archosaurus]

I think for stuff like this it would be really great if there just existed dyno curves online. At the end of the day it's a foam elastomer and a rubber elastomer, they will all have similar curves with just different slopes and saturation points in regards to a mostly normal deflection.

Spin and very tangent touch makes it more complicated because it depends on sliding and effective friction which is more difficult to measure at all, but not everything has to always be so complicated, you can just do things in a simple way to help with the complicated things.

I expect a softer sponge and rubber combo to have a smaller linear slope, a steeper progressive slope and a lower saturation point, while I expect harder to have a larger linear slope, a milder progressive slope and a higher saturation point. The question is, how much?

Combining dyno curves with measurements of how much people are actually swinging with their swings would be the cream on top. You could pretty objectively find a good ballpark range without experimenting too much, in terms of how elastic or how rigid you want it to feel.

 

[Ishmaelkhan]

As far as the 'longggg but controlled stretch, easy to engage the sponge, and that soft, yet clear feeling' is concerned, I would recommend the Gewo Inventus rubbers. However I do not know if they replicate the Butterfly rubber feeling because I haven't used Butterfly rubbers for myself yet.

 

[dprsspins]

Avid user of butterfly myself, and also tested a myriad of other brands, I've unfortunately need to say also; butterfly feel is unique and hard to replicate. Their unique grippy gummy topsheet with spring sponge is just different. Elastic air capsule spring sponge with that natural rubber gummy feel is a one of a kind feel and my go to.

But, I would consider close alternatives. Mantra Pro series and Rakza 7 do feel a little like the Rozena/Tenergies. Xiom Vega Pro/X felt a little like a slightly livelier Glayzer, and the Stiga DNA Hybrid reminded me of a livelier Dignics09C.

So far nothing really feels like Zyre-03 though. That rubber is just weirdly unique, but it works.

 

[Tyce]

A little revisit after some additional experiences I've had lately.

One, I did go to the shop. Tried Glayzer, Rozena, several Tenergies and I ended up buying a T19 and T05 for FH and BH respectively. I'm not quite convinced yet so here's the deal:

Rozena: the softness is extremely accessible. It feels like every shot is loopable, but the result is slow, short and non-threatening without exception. Feeling: 10/10, results: 2/10

Glayzer: I think the blade it was on didn't do it justice. Felt a total lack of power. Grip was OK but there was no real feeling whatsoever. I believe it was on a Primorac (wood) so my guess is that's too little blade to access the rubber's properties.
Glayzer 09c: On the other side of that same blade (iirc). It felt dead, not Chinese dead but dampening-effect dead.

Dignics (several): regardless of being on ALC blades I was unable to get reliable access to sponge action. This rubber is not right (for me).

Tenergy (several): I think the best combo was on Outerforce CAF (which is just a great, controllable blade, current bestseller according to the store manager). It's pretty much as expected, a little bit harder due to being newer sheets but easy to access that sponge and get the pulling sensation. Balls landed deeper and with more kick.


The most interesting part of this comparison was that I had a lot more consistent placement with those rubbers where I could access the sponge better. Seems like the dwell-hold-release action is better coordinated with a more consistent release vector, and with rubbers that are too hard, the ball pops off before I complete my aiming action.


Since that visit, I have been working hard on getting better contact: more engagement with the rubber, better coordination on smaller backswings and higher accelerated strokes with better brushing contact. For that purpose I have been switching back to all-wood (Korbel) which is simply more fault tolerant and precise in feedback.

I am still on the fence about rubbers though:

I've been working with G-1 FH and C-1 BH mostly to get a fair comparison with the same rubbers between new combinations and my main bat of the past season.
G-1 still feels really good on some shots and uncontrollable on others. The grip is great, low spin sensitivity too. Serve, receive, pushes are awesome, then there's a whole gap in the medium power range where it works like 50/50 requiring *full* shot commitment, lots of overshooting, flat hit catapult in medium power is gigantic. But when I reach higher power, long topspins behind the table, it seems to only have one usable gear and that's not a gear that finishes points.
C-1 is an extremely anonymous rubber, and mostly due to the sponge. Even when I make very good contact, judging by the ball coming off, it doesn't convey that feeling at all. Every hit feels meh and anonymous, it's pretty much the opposite of Rozena where every hit feels great but the results are meh. With C-1 every hit feels like crap but the results are usually OK.

I think the fair conclusion here is that the harder topsheet of the Fastarcs is not for me even if the grip is great. I am going to test the Tenergy combo on wood next. Hoping that the sensitivity doesn't put me off.

 

[dprsspins]

A little revisit after some additional experiences I've had lately.

One, I did go to the shop. Tried Glayzer, Rozena, several Tenergies and I ended up buying a T19 and T05 for FH and BH respectively. I'm not quite convinced yet so here's the deal:

Rozena: the softness is extremely accessible. It feels like every shot is loopable, but the result is slow, short and non-threatening without exception. Feeling: 10/10, results: 2/10

Glayzer: I think the blade it was on didn't do it justice. Felt a total lack of power. Grip was OK but there was no real feeling whatsoever. I believe it was on a Primorac (wood) so my guess is that's too little blade to access the rubber's properties.
Glayzer 09c: On the other side of that same blade (iirc). It felt dead, not Chinese dead but dampening-effect dead.

Dignics (several): regardless of being on ALC blades I was unable to get reliable access to sponge action. This rubber is not right (for me).

Tenergy (several): I think the best combo was on Outerforce CAF (which is just a great, controllable blade, current bestseller according to the store manager). It's pretty much as expected, a little bit harder due to being newer sheets but easy to access that sponge and get the pulling sensation. Balls landed deeper and with more kick.


The most interesting part of this comparison was that I had a lot more consistent placement with those rubbers where I could access the sponge better. Seems like the dwell-hold-release action is better coordinated with a more consistent release vector, and with rubbers that are too hard, the ball pops off before I complete my aiming action.


Since that visit, I have been working hard on getting better contact: more engagement with the rubber, better coordination on smaller backswings and higher accelerated strokes with better brushing contact. For that purpose I have been switching back to all-wood (Korbel) which is simply more fault tolerant and precise in feedback.

I am still on the fence about rubbers though:

I've been working with G-1 FH and C-1 BH mostly to get a fair comparison with the same rubbers between new combinations and my main bat of the past season.
G-1 still feels really good on some shots and uncontrollable on others. The grip is great, low spin sensitivity too. Serve, receive, pushes are awesome, then there's a whole gap in the medium power range where it works like 50/50 requiring *full* shot commitment, lots of overshooting, flat hit catapult in medium power is gigantic. But when I reach higher power, long topspins behind the table, it seems to only have one usable gear and that's not a gear that finishes points.
C-1 is an extremely anonymous rubber, and mostly due to the sponge. Even when I make very good contact, judging by the ball coming off, it doesn't convey that feeling at all. Every hit feels meh and anonymous, it's pretty much the opposite of Rozena where every hit feels great but the results are meh. With C-1 every hit feels like crap but the results are usually OK.

I think the fair conclusion here is that the harder topsheet of the Fastarcs is not for me even if the grip is great. I am going to test the Tenergy combo on wood next. Hoping that the sensitivity doesn't put me off.

To really get some good results and feeling with the Rozena or Glayzer, I would definitely recommend an OFF or OFF+ outer carbon blade.

I agree with you that the Rozena and Glayzer on an OFF- wood blade like the Primorac wood or Falcima is a hard miss. Feeling would be muted and lots of acceleration is required to really brush loop the ball, especially with the Glayzer. If one likes the woody 'thok' muted feel then I guess it's fine, but I wouldn't recommend Glayzer on an all wood. Rozena is ok.

Try the Rozena/Glayzer on something faster and stiffer. I love them more on my Joola Tezzo Spartan than on the Butterfly Ovtcharov Innerforce.

 

[Tyce]

To really get some good results and feeling with the Rozena or Glayzer, I would definitely recommend an OFF or OFF+ outer carbon blade.

I agree with you that the Rozena and Glayzer on an OFF- wood blade like the Primorac wood or Falcima is a hard miss. Feeling would be muted and lots of acceleration is required to really brush loop the ball, especially with the Glayzer. If one likes the woody 'thok' muted feel then I guess it's fine, but I wouldn't recommend Glayzer on an all wood. Rozena is ok.

Try the Rozena/Glayzer on something faster and stiffer. I love them more on my Joola Tezzo Spartan than on the Butterfly Ovtcharov Innerforce.

I could test G-1/C-1 on a FZD ALC - don't think I tried that combination yet. That should give me an indication whether Glayzer could work for me, although I think the combination has a big chance of being far too much for me to handle.
As for Innerforce, I think I'm cured of Butterfly's innerforce blades. I don't get on with how the power shifts. I do love the balance on Innerforce ALC, they feel quite nimble for their actual weight.

 

[dprsspins]

I could test G-1/C-1 on a FZD ALC - don't think I tried that combination yet. That should give me an indication whether Glayzer could work for me, although I think the combination has a big chance of being far too much for me to handle.
As for Innerforce, I think I'm cured of Butterfly's innerforce blades. I don't get on with how the power shifts. I do love the balance on Innerforce ALC, they feel quite nimble for their actual weight.

I've used both Glayzer and G1 extensively, on outer and inner carbon, and once on a Hinoki 1 ply, and they are very very different. I don't think testing the G1 will give you any indication of how the Glayzer works, both feel and performance.

G1 is noticeably more bouncier and has more catapult than Glayzer. G1 topsheet and sponge feels softer (eventhough around the same rating) and it is more spin sensitive. G1 feels more muted, with a sponge that isn't that crisp. You do need to supply your own power, but less on the G1. G1 has lesser gears than Glayzer for me, perhaps 4 to 7 from a scale of 1-10. But it is a little easier to access speed and spin on it than the Glayzer.

The Glayzer feels harder and linear. It's topsheet feels more firmed and tensioned. It has a very crisp feeling sponge that 'crackles' on impact, and it has alot of gears, perhaps 3 to 8 on the same scale. I do feel the Glayzer is more controllable. The feel of the Glayzer is very different from the G1. Downside is you do need to provide a lot of your own power.

Imo, the G1 is a do-everything rubber, while the Glayzer is a pure attacking rubber.

Top end spin and speed is somewhat similar especially for us who aren't elite and don't have the technique or power to push the sponge to its limit. Ultimately, if you don't really care much about feel, then both rubbers are absolute gems that can do almost everything quite well. It boils down to what kind of feel you want out of the rubber. Free speed? Control? Crisp? Muted?

 

[golden_son]

I've used both Glayzer and G1 extensively, on outer and inner carbon, and once on a Hinoki 1 ply, and they are very very different. I don't think testing the G1 will give you any indication of how the Glayzer works, both feel and performance.

G1 is noticeably more bouncier and has more catapult than Glayzer. G1 topsheet and sponge feels softer (eventhough around the same rating) and it is more spin sensitive. G1 feels more muted, with a sponge that isn't that crisp. You do need to supply your own power, but less on the G1. G1 has lesser gears than Glayzer for me, perhaps 4 to 7 from a scale of 1-10. But it is a little easier to access speed and spin on it than the Glayzer.

The Glayzer feels harder and linear. It's topsheet feels more firmed and tensioned. It has a very crisp feeling sponge that 'crackles' on impact, and it has alot of gears, perhaps 3 to 8 on the same scale. I do feel the Glayzer is more controllable. The feel of the Glayzer is very different from the G1. Downside is you do need to provide a lot of your own power.

Imo, the G1 is a do-everything rubber, while the Glayzer is a pure attacking rubber.

Top end spin and speed is somewhat similar especially for us who aren't elite and don't have the technique or power to push the sponge to its limit. Ultimately, if you don't really care much about feel, then both rubbers are absolute gems that can do almost everything quite well. It boils down to what kind of feel you want out of the rubber. Free speed? Control? Crisp? Muted?

It's interesting; I agree with some but not all of this. I never found G1 to be bouncier or more catapult-y; I would say they're very similar. Even Rozena feels bouncier to me (granted, a softer sponge can have this effect). I also felt like G1's topsheet was harder. It was harder for me to slow-loop; every stroke requires engagement. Glayzer, despite the harder sponge, feels a little easier to engage.

I do agree that Glayzer's Spring Sponge gives it a "crisp" feeling that G1 doesn't have, a feeling it shares with other BTY rubbers, only this one doesn't have the "oops, I breathed wrong and now my ball is a missile" effect that I got from Rozena and Tenergy--it is in fact quite linear.

 

[Tyce]

Looks like the only way I'm truly going to find out is by getting a sheet

 

[dprsspins]

It's interesting; I agree with some but not all of this. I never found G1 to be bouncier or more catapult-y; I would say they're very similar. Even Rozena feels bouncier to me (granted, a softer sponge can have this effect). I also felt like G1's topsheet was harder. It was harder for me to slow-loop; every stroke requires engagement. Glayzer, despite the harder sponge, feels a little easier to engage.

I do agree that Glayzer's Spring Sponge gives it a "crisp" feeling that G1 doesn't have, a feeling it shares with other BTY rubbers, only this one doesn't have the "oops, I breathed wrong and now my ball is a missile" effect that I got from Rozena and Tenergy--it is in fact quite linear.

Odd, but interesting. If I were to give a score on bounciness over 100, Tenergy05 would be 90, Rozena 70, G1 65 and Glayzer 60, on the same blade.

What blade did you test the Glayzer and G1 on? Another thing different about Glayzer and G1 is their dependence on blades. G1 works about the same and feels similar on most blades, but Glayzer works very differently on different blades.

The philosophy of both rubbers are also quite different. G1 felt like a calm Tenergy05. Glayzer felt like a calm Dignics05. G1 mimics the spin sensitivity and bounciness I felt on Tenergy05 but has both of these aspects reduced, while Glayzer retains the excellent grip of the Dignics05 and spring sponge X feel just with a softer sponge and less catapult.

When I tested the G1 on my Ovtcharov Innerforce, on my outer carbon Joola Tezzo Spartan, and then on the 7 ply Hinoki Nittaku Septear, it felt largely similar, predictable catapult with a muted ESN feel. The Glayzer felt dead on the Nittaku Septear but very much alive on both the Innerforce and JOOLA. I couldn't create pace with the Glayzer on the Nittaku Septear and it felt not very crisp. On the carbon blades, the Glayzer was a mid distance looping monster on the Innerforce and was flat smashing with so much crisp on the JOOLA.

 

[dprsspins]

Looks like the only way I'm truly going to find out is by getting a sheet

Indeed nothing will be better than testing it for yourself.

Me personally, both aren't too far apart price wise, and they can both play well, but one felt more crisp and good to the hand. That sold me! Spring sponge is really good.