What is the First Speed or the Second Speed?

[Andrea Jiang]

We often talk about the attack: attacking playing style, using an offensive blade, attaching with a fast/grippy rubber.

However, what is the attack in table tennis? It’s all about First Speed and Second Speed.

First Speed refers to how fast the ball goes after you hit it, the higher First Speed is, the quicker your ball will land your opponent’s table.
Second Speed means how fast the ball goes after it bounces at your opponent’s table, the higher Second Speed is, the quicker your ball will bounce away from where it lands.

You can never have both of them together, you will always need to think about the balance between them.

If you want more First Speed you need to move your arm more forward to generate and transfer power to the ball rather than swing your bat side to side to create more spin.

If you want more Second Speed you need to use your bat to chop the ball which means you will not hit the ball with your bat facing straight to it.

It is like a mathematical formula:

First Speed + Second Speed + power loss = Power you generate.

Different balance means different strategies.

Choosing the right blades and rubbers will not help you to generate more power, what they will do is to create more spin when you go for the First Speed or make the ball goes faster when you chop it, and at the same time, to reduce the loss.

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[Lazer]

Wouldn't it be easier just to say spin instead of second speed?

I realize that what You call second speed has two component spin an speed. But it ultimately depends on the spin of the ball...

To me a ball always leaves the racket with 3 components, speed, spin and angle (against the table surface). Thats it nothing more nothing less...

What does it mean to say second speed is high? Is the speed component high? Is the spin component high?
My guess is the spin component and this is ..wait fot it.. ..wait... SPIN...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Andrea Jiang]

I completely understand what you mean, this phenomenon is indeed caused by the spin of the ball. In my opinion, fast second speed refers to a feeling. That is, after the ball hits the table, it bounces forward at a low angle with strong topspin. At this time, we will say: This ball has a really fast second speed!

Regards,

 

[Lazer]

And I say, "wow lots'a spin on that one"...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[haggisv]

This does make sense to me at all. Perhaps something is lost in translation here?

 

[Migzkulit]

I think the concept is just Base speed for first speed and kick for second speed.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This does make sense to me at all. Perhaps something is lost in translation here?

The word Chop in OP needs to be replaced with Spin, then it will make more sense.

So higher spin = reduce speed.
But with certain rubbers (I won't say it here with respect to OP), you can have high 1st speed and high 2nd speed and that is why so many people likes to use it.

Pros have the kick on the 2nd speed, that makes them different to that of hobby players.
Mr Aruna himself has one of the strongest kick, but for him, I think it is not equipment, but his brute force.
his kick is head height away from the table.

In the other thread, talking about forehand top spin shape, well, against Aruna, you can't do that shape at all, because the ball is all head height and you can only play upwards+forward with little response time, because the 2nd speed is just so strong.

Back to OP, the diagram helps to show what is speed + spin and a balance of that is crucial
I hope I have explain this correctly.

 

[Kopp]

OP was saying what many of us have already understood, but he's explaining it in a different way, kind of academically, I guess. Personally, I think his explanation was great.

 

[Aizen]

It is like a mathematical formula:
First Speed + Second Speed + power loss = Power you generate.

This formula seems so wrong

To me a ball always leaves the racket with 3 components, speed, spin and angle (against the table surface). Thats it nothing more nothing less...

+1 more than that seems dramatization

 

[igorponger]

PUSH IT ALL.

Why do the pushing strokes make the ball to go even faster than the looping strokes do? Сlassical mechanics has a convincing answer to be remembered by all players.

Just look here, the guy repeatedly using pushing strokes to deliver deadly attacks. Crasy speed, indeed.

-----------------------
Be happy all.

 

[Lazer]

PUSH IT ALL.

Why do the pushing strokes make the ball to go even faster than the looping? Сlassical mechanics has a convincing answer to be remembered by all players.

Just look here, the guy repeatedly using pushing strokes to deliver deadly attacks. Crasy speed, indeed.

View attachment 32314

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Be happy all.

I call that a punch...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Aizen]

PUSH IT ALL.

Why do the pushing strokes make the ball to go even faster than the looping strokes do? Сlassical mechanics has a convincing answer to be remembered by all players.

Just look here, the guy repeatedly using pushing strokes to deliver deadly attacks. Crasy speed, indeed.

View attachment 32314

-----------------------
Be happy all.

This is false interpretion of a basic concept or you are trolling us 🤔

Push means in TT is the underspin.
Push in your image and story is means horizontal impact.

Of course, Actual pushing (not the one igor’s mentioned) makes hop effect ball tends to climb in the air which increase distance where gravity exist with same horizontal + vertical force.

But, in the end we need to land on table, it’s not range competition.