Looping with LP's

[StuartMarquis]

With LP's, are you better of going for a thicker sponge or a thinner sponge if you're looking to loop as well as chop? I'm thinking that a thicker sponge would allow the ball to sink in a bit in order to enhance grip, but at the same time it would also reduce the chances of the pips bending in order to engance spin. So assuming a relatively soft LP is being used, what sponge thickness do I go for?

I currently use tsp curl p-4 in 1mm. Should I drop to 0.5mm or go up to 1.5mm to improve my looping capabilities?

 

[D_Nizzle]

No offence but I think your thinking too much about equipment instead of considering what long pips do.long pips don't change the existing spin on the ball,so if you receive a loop there is no way you can loop it back.even if you do a looping action with your long pips the ball will still have light backspin or no spin and will most likely float off the table unless you're very accurate.sure you could powerloop a backspin ball, because then you'd be adding to the existing spin on the ball, but this is rarely done.generally if you want to loop get an inverted rubber.long pips ain't made for looping


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[StuartMarquis]

Just to clarify, I already loop with my LP's. Curl p-4 is not to bad at generating spin so it can play like an inverted rubber better than most LP's. My question is not about whether you can loop with a LP, it's about whether the looping capabilities would get better or worse if I changed the sponge thickness...and if so, would it be the thicker or thinner sponge that improved the loops.

 

[D_Nizzle]

Sorry but you can't counterloop with long pips.if a long pip rubber had this property it wouldn't be a long pip rubber anymore.is this rubber short pips or something?


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[D_Nizzle]

Sorry if I sound harsh,I know a lot of folk do a lot of things with long pips, far different to how the pros use them.but when I hear long pips and loop I can't help but go a bit loopy,pun intended.if you're talking about attacking backspin,fine,loop away.and I imagine a thicker sponge would help,though I'm not an equipment guru


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[pgpg]

Sorry if I sound harsh,I know a lot of folk do a lot of things with long pips, far different to how the pros use them.but when I hear long pips and loop I can't help but go a bit loopy,pun intended.if you're talking about attacking backspin,fine,loop away.and I imagine a thicker sponge would help,though I'm not an equipment guru


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You can do topspin with LP, especially if they are reasonably grippy (P4 is one of these, I think) and have sponge:

It's not going to be the same as you would do with inverted, but might be enough.

 

[StuartMarquis]

so you think the looping would get better with a thicker sponge rather than thinner?

 

[pgpg]

so you think the looping would get better with a thicker sponge rather than thinner?

I don't have this shot in my arsenal, and I currently play with OX pips that are supposedly not very grippy. I suspect sponge will help.

 

[D_Nizzle]

I didn't say you can't do a looping action but the shot will not act like an inverted loop.you simply can't loop against loop with long pips.if you do the ball will float, which means you have to be incredibly accurate to get it on the table. It's a very high risk shot which usually doesn't pay off unless the ball is high so you have a trajectory to hit it down into the table, which isn't even a loop! Looping topspin with long pips is simply not what they're made for.i highly advice anyone who does this to rethink their game.you can chop, block even drive, but adding an upward action with long pips to a topspinning ball doesn't work. And I've seen that video and wonder how many balls hit the table. That video is not helpful in any way to beginner long pip players. Greg Letts has lots of long pip videos which are much more productive


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[Shuki]

Looping with long pips isn't impossible, they aren't frictionless.

 

[D_Nizzle]

You could loop backspin because then you'd be adding to the existing spin on the ball, or maybe you could loop a nospin ball although the resulting ball would have so little topspin you'd struggle to call it a loop. but since the whole idea behind long pips is to either add to or retain the existing spin on the ball you can not loop against topspin with long pips. There's so much equipment out there that their might be some magical long pip rubber than can do this, though I don't understand how, and if it did then that would mean it wouldn't have any spin retention qualities, so you might as well use an inverted rubber anyway. I'm repeating myself a lot now, so I'm done. If you want to loop topspin with long pips go ahead and have fun


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[StuartMarquis]

When I loop with my LP's the shot behaves quite similar to a loop with inverted rubber, it arcs over the net like you'd expect from a top spin loop so it's definitely changing their topspin into my topspin (as opposed to just killing their topsin or amplifying their topspin as my backspin) . Don't get me wrong, it's not as effective at looping as an inverted rubber because LP's don't grip the ball as much and therefore can't change the direction of the spin so vigorously, but it is possible to loop against a topspin shot nonetheless. I'd be happy to post up a video of me counter looping the topspin that my robot throws at me....maybe we've just got a language barrier here and what I'm calling a loop with LP's is a shot you'd label with a different name?

 

[D_Nizzle]

Maybe it is a language issue, or maybe there is a long pip rubber that can do this which you're using. I'm not so informed with equipment. Of all the long pips I've used I've never seen this, plus it goes against my understanding of long pips, but hey, I could be wrong and often am.


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[Shuki]

Maybe it is a language issue, or maybe there is a long pip rubber that can do this which you're using. I'm not so informed with equipment. Of all the long pips I've used I've never seen this, plus it goes against my understanding of long pips, but hey, I could be wrong and often am.


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Looping with long pips is very possible, But I think when he uses the term loop he's just talking about doing an aggressive stroke that ends up with topspin. I play with a long-pip player that doesn't often make backspin occur with his long-pips.

There are different kinds of long pips. The way you're describing them is more like "frictionless" long pips which were much thinner and more flexible. P-4 pips are a bit thick for a long pip rubber which would make this easier for him to do. I don't use them myself and never really have (I've messed with them a bit, but not enough for good understanding of how to use them myself)

 

[D_Nizzle]

Looping with long pips is very possible, But I think when he uses the term loop he's just talking about doing an aggressive stroke that ends up with topspin. I play with a long-pip player that doesn't often make backspin occur with his long-pips.

There are different kinds of long pips. The way you're describing them is more like "frictionless" long pips which were much thinner and more flexible. P-4 pips are a bit thick for a long pip rubber which would make this easier for him to do. I don't use them myself and never really have (I've messed with them a bit, but not enough for good understanding of how to use them myself)

I'm not going to repeat what I said before - but I hope that one would at least recognise the fact that looping against topspin with long pips is – if not impossible (for the vast majority of long pips rubbers I would say) – then at least not a good idea. I’m not going to let this lie. There is a huge misunderstanding of what long pips can and CANT do out there – and people get hung up on equipment rather than considering what shots long pip rubbers can do effectively to help you win matches.

 

[StuartMarquis]

I'm not going to repeat what I said before - but I hope that one would at least recognise the fact that looping against topspin with long pips is – if not impossible (for the vast majority of long pips rubbers I would say) – then at least not a good idea. I’m not going to let this lie. There is a huge misunderstanding of what long pips can and CANT do out there – and people get hung up on equipment rather than considering what shots long pip rubbers can do effectively to help you win matches.

Im sorry but I don't follow your reasoning. If I've found a particular brand of LP rubber that is grippy enough to allow me to loop with it, then why is it a bad idea to add that shot to my game-play arsenal? Why limit myself to chops and blocks with the LP if I'm able to do more with it...especially if this isn't something my opponent would be expecting! I appreciate what your saying about LP's if we're talking about LP rubbers in general, but don't forget my initial question related to a specific brand of LP rubber that I already use. My question wasn't about whether or not it's possible to loop with my chosen LP, but instead about what effect sponge thickness would have on a rubber that I can already loop with.

 

[D_Nizzle]

Sure I didn't answer you're question, but I just tried to give some advice about shot selection with long pips.if there is a long pip rubber with such grip that it can reverse the spin on a topspinning ball and give topspin back, then that means it doesn't have any of the spin adding or spin retention properties of a regular long pip rubber.and this leads me to wonder why you don't just use short pips or an inverted rubber anyway. but whatever ... There are lots of styles and equipment so whatever floats your boat! But looping or trying to loop with long pips against topspin will never make sense to me


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[ajtatosmano2]

Sure I didn't answer you're question, but I just tried to give some advice about shot selection with long pips.if there is a long pip rubber with such grip that it can reverse the spin on a topspinning ball and give topspin back, then that means it doesn't have any of the spin adding or spin retention properties of a regular long pip rubber.and this leads me to wonder why you don't just use short pips or an inverted rubber anyway. but whatever ... There are lots of styles and equipment so whatever floats your boat! But looping or trying to loop with long pips against topspin will never make sense to me


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Short pips can counterloop, right? Some grippy long pips behave exactly like a short pips rubber. The 'long' word is for the height of the pips, not for the grippyness. I know about that pips can bend, but a thick sponge nearly ignore that.