FH rubber for one-ply hinoki

[SFF_lib]

I've been a penholder for a few years. My main setup is a JPen Darker Speed 90 10mm with Yasaka R7 soft on FH and Friendship Snipe 3 on BH. I am a two wing looper. R7 soft bottoms out easily to allow hinoki to shine. I have no problem looping far form table. Due to the softness of the rubber aggressive attack is very controllable.

Only one problem - short game and serve. It's still fairly bouncy compared to tacky rubber. The power of hinoki makes it worse. So I have a backup (7ply hinoki + H3) when my opponent is very strong in short game. H3 on a soft blade allows me to return dangerously low and short balls.

But I love hinoki too much to give it up. I want to try a different FH rubber on my 1-ply hinoki. Has any one had experience with using a tacky/semi-tacky rubber on a 1-ply hinoki? I understand hard Chinese rubber is not a good fit as it's hard to bottom out the hard sponge.

What about H3 50? Since its sponge is softer, easito bottom out? Or any other tacky rubber that can bottom out easily?

Thanks for any advice

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I don't get why you think H3 would not be good.

I would actually try it to judge for yourself.


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[SFF_lib]

I just haven't tried H3 on sing ply hinoki

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[UpSideDownCarl]

Worth a try. The blade is so powerful. Having a rubber that is so good for spin and short game with a blade that gives you that much speed might be worth it.


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[Paccheco]

Cazuo Matsumoto, athlete of Torún in polish league, uses a Cypress Black i think with a Spinart. Sure, hes nowhere like a traditional jpen like Kim Taek Soo or Ryu Seung Min, but he sure gets the most of this combination with insane spin manipulation and overdrives near table. If youre interest how a chinese-like rubber on a single ply works, Cazuo's skills worth the watch.

 

[Epid3xia]

Cazuo Matsumoto, athlete of Torún in polish league, uses a Cypress Black i think with a Spinart. Sure, hes nowhere like a traditional jpen like Kim Taek Soo or Ryu Seung Min, but he sure gets the most of this combination with insane spin manipulation and overdrives near table. If youre interest how a chinese-like rubber on a single ply works, Cazuo's skills worth the watch.

WOW! Cazuo Matsumoto is a realy interesting and stunning player. I have watched his match against Xu Xin from 2016 Korea Open and he won 1 Set(!) and challenged Xu Xin realy well over a long period of the match!

Now I want to try the SpinArt because I use a 1-ply Hinoki as well and love his playing style. But the SpinArt is just too expensive. Do you know any alternatives?

 

[SFF_lib]

Cazuo Matsumoto, athlete of Torún in polish league, uses a Cypress Black i think with a Spinart. Sure, hes nowhere like a traditional jpen like Kim Taek Soo or Ryu Seung Min, but he sure gets the most of this combination with insane spin manipulation and overdrives near table. If youre interest how a chinese-like rubber on a single ply works, Cazuo's skills worth the watch.

Absolutely amazing play. I have never seen this combination can be that powerful. Given his body shape he has pretty amazing foot work.

But SpinArt is even more expensive than H3 provincial. I think you can get H3 provincial in 37 hardness so it might go well with a single ply hinoki.

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[SFF_lib]

WOW! Cazuo Matsumoto is a realy interesting and stunning player. I have watched his match against Xu Xin from 2016 Korea Open and he won 1 Set(!) and challenged Xu Xin realy well over a long period of the match!

Now I want to try the SpinArt because I use a 1-ply Hinoki as well and love his playing style. But the SpinArt is just too expensive. Do you know any alternatives?

Alternative?? Maybe Hurricane 3-50? Hurricane 3 provincial 37 degree apparently very soft. Or Skyline 3-60?

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[Paccheco]

You can try 729 higher green sponge ( i think the green sponge is the higher III) just to see how it goes. It has half of a H3 tack and if you boost it, it becomes very bouncy ( for a chinese rubber). I think it costs around 10USD.
For more expensive alternative i think Xiom Tau will do. I ve seen a lot of comparisions between Spinart and Tau. Spinart always has small a edge in peps personal liking or spin but the price difference is a huge drawback.

 

[Suga D]

Another cheaper alternative could also be the Big Dipper in mid soft. 2 Layers of oil make it also pretty springy for a chinese rubber.
[Emoji6]

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Yeah, sometimes people think SpinArt is like a Chinese rubber. It is not. That is a sponge that is similar to the Tenergy sponge but harder. With a topsheet that is much closer to Tenergy than it is to a Chinese tacky rubber.

H3, Blue Whale, Big Dipper, those might be very interesting on the one ply Hinoki blade.


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[Tinykin]

Sanwei Target National

Another alternative is Sanwei target National. I Have seen a well known international player using it.

 

[SFF_lib]

Another alternative is Sanwei target National. I Have seen a well known international player using it.

I have tried Sanwei Target Nation BS. It's very controllable but the ball can skid on it. So spin is not great. Sponge might still be too hard to bottom out on hinoki.

For the same price we can get a neo H3 prov.

 

[SFF_lib]

Yeah, sometimes people think SpinArt is like a Chinese rubber. It is not. That is a sponge that is similar to the Tenergy sponge but harder. With a topsheet that is much closer to Tenergy than it is to a Chinese tacky rubber.

H3, Blue Whale, Big Dipper, those might be very interesting on the one ply Hinoki blade.


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Do you think Spin Art comes in different sponge hardness?

I have tried T80 1.9mm. Pretty hard to bottom out on my Darker Speed 90. In contrast T05 FX bottoms out easily.

If Spin Art comes in a softer sponge I might try it.

 

[Jabugo]

I don't get why you think H3 would not be good.

I would actually try it to judge for yourself.


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I feel this is exactly what you have to do. You just cannot know until you try it yourself because everyone
has a different style and different preference. You may not feel the same way as I do since you like soft sponge rubber
that bottoms out.

With that said, I am a huge fan of looping and H3 rubber. To me, Hurricane 3 National on a Darker Jpen Speed 90
has fantastic feel, high throw, and immense spin. The H3 National I prefer is 40 degree hardness (DHS scale) and 2.2 thickness.
The last thing I want is the rubber to bottom out, and I do not need the sponge to bottom out to feel how a blade provides
feedback. In fact, I believe the feel of the hinoki wood is amplified with the harder sponge. Softer sponge actually feels more
muted. For example, I also like some hard sponge euro rubbers like OVA which has a similar high throw and really good spin too. But it feels a bit
more muted compared to H3 National.

Again, everyone has a different preference, so you really have to try it yourself.

 

[Epid3xia]

SFF_lib why do you want your sponge to bottom out exactly? What does bottoming out your sponge give you compared to not bottoming out a sponge?

 

[SFF_lib]

SFF_lib why do you want your sponge to bottom out exactly? What does bottoming out your sponge give you compared to not bottoming out a sponge?

I have tried T80 and R7 soft on my Darker 90. T80 only bottoms out when looping very hard. Not much feel or feedback. Although fast but accuracy is low.

In contrast R7 soft bottoms out easily = lots of control and confidence. The speed and spin are still huge as I have enough strength due to training.

 

[SFF_lib]

I feel this is exactly what you have to do. You just cannot know until you try it yourself because everyone
has a different style and different preference. You may not feel the same way as I do since you like soft sponge rubber
that bottoms out.

With that said, I am a huge fan of looping and H3 rubber. To me, Hurricane 3 National on a Darker Jpen Speed 90
has fantastic feel, high throw, and immense spin. The H3 National I prefer is 40 degree hardness (DHS scale) and 2.2 thickness.
The last thing I want is the rubber to bottom out, and I do not need the sponge to bottom out to feel how a blade provides
feedback. In fact, I believe the feel of the hinoki wood is amplified with the harder sponge. Softer sponge actually feels more
muted. For example, I also like some hard sponge euro rubbers like OVA which has a similar high throw and really good spin too. But it feels a bit
more muted compared to H3 National.

Again, everyone has a different preference, so you really have to try it yourself.

I agree with you. Everyone's preference is different. I have seen people using very hard rubber on very hard blade and still can play well.

My style is looping, so I prefer soft rubber on hinoki. My current rubber R7 softhas hardness of 42, equivalent to DHS 37 degree. So I have ordered a H3-50. Will wait yo try it on

 

[Epid3xia]

I have tried T80 and R7 soft on my Darker 90. T80 only bottoms out when looping very hard. Not much feel or feedback. Although fast but accuracy is low.

In contrast R7 soft bottoms out easily = lots of control and confidence. The speed and spin are still huge as I have enough strength due to training.

I still don't understand why you want your rubber to bottom out. Why is it better that the rubber bottoms out?

 

[Paccheco]

I think he is confusing bottoming out with sinking effect of the rubber.