Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Yecats Encerwal]

Hahahaaa well observed and probably smarter reaction than mine.

You're probably wiser than I am, I just couldn't resist.

But NL was totally on point. I'm a total freedom fighter! When i'm not posting here then i'm most likely marching.

Sometimes marching for freedom, sometimes for brain usage and sometimes for no good reason.

I guess the only freedom we are fighting for on here is the freedom to post/open threads to create discussion without feeling judged or put down for doing so

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

GOAT is a little different. However, the premise can be questioned. From my perspective it is a good idea to question it. The "best" for anything I can think of is subjective, and therefore open to interpretation, which means in some sense there is no such thing. And if the idea of the thread was to let everyone have their own opinion but somehow my perspective of questioning the validity of the premise was not okay, then it seems that not all opinions were actually allowed.

Anyway, sorry. It is good to have you as part of the forum.

Thanks for the apology Carl.

The thread was created to discuss the GOAT. If people choose to discuss a certain era within the thread, i.e since 2005ish, because that's their era, then fine, no problems. It didn't stop other members carrying on to discuss Waldner etc, and that is fine, perfect in fact. I wanted it to be open to exploring era's in which people are most knowledgeable.

My point is, it is rude to jump on a thread simply to question its premise. Your opinion was accepted, but that doesn't stop it from being patronising and unnecessary. Its like me jumping onto any thread, just to ask "what is the point?"

Let's move on from this now, but I appreciate your apology.

 

[Suga D]

I guess the only freedom we are fighting for on here is the freedom to post/open threads to create discussion without feeling judged or put down for doing so

Exactly.

Actually a bit sad that this needs to be mentioned in the first place, but well...

 

[NextLevel]

Carl was mocking me in his comment, which does not surprise me

He chose to do the same when he mentioned the "2005 onwards" too.

I chose to ignore it cause it seems like normal behaviour from him and all it did was re-inforce your original post and our original point...

I would mock someone who wanted to discuss the greatest player of all time without studying the history of table tennis well enough to discuss it insightfully and Carl's point about difficulty comparing players across eras is actually a necessary and common perspective which has been analyzed with a lot of other tools. If you actually accepted your responsibility to do better when initiating such discussions, it would help a lot.

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

I would mock someone who wanted to discuss the greatest player of all time without studying the history of table tennis well enough to discuss it insightfully and Carl's point about difficulty comparing players across eras is actually a necessary and common perspective which has been analyzed with a lot of other tools. If you actually accepted your responsibility to do better when initiating such discussions, it would help a lot.

NL, you have crossed a line here.

No one has a responsibility to initiate discussions that tick everyone's boxes. That is a horrible attitude to have and you should not be proud of it. Not everyone has the time or the want to research every aspect of TT, and my knowledge will only improve as I get older, and hopefully with the help of this forum (Why do you think I created the thread????) But it seems that you would rather shoot others down than help them out on here. Posts like yours just now actually make me want to move away from the forum entirely, and completely sum up what Suga and I are saying.

"Do better when creating discussions"

And yet you guys don't see what we mean when we say we feel judged.

 

[Suga D]

I would mock someone who wanted to discuss the greatest player of all time without studying the history of table tennis well enough to discuss it insightfully and Carl's point about difficulty comparing players across eras is actually a necessary and common perspective which has been analyzed with a lot of other tools. If you actually accepted your responsibility to do better when initiating such discussions, it would help a lot.

Oh right, next time before we'll open a thread we'll ask Prof. NL for his expertise.
Seriously?? C'mon man!
[Emoji23]
Dude, this is something you can hope for, but definitely CAN NOT ask for. Everybody has his limitations. E V E R Y B O D Y
Do you want that people make fun of yours??

 

[NextLevel]

NL, you have crossed a line here.

No one has a responsibility to initiate discussions that tick everyone's boxes. That is a horrible attitude to have and you should not be proud of it. Not everyone has the time or the want to research every aspect of TT, and my knowledge will only improve as I get older, and hopefully with the help of this forum, but it seems that you would rather shoot others down than help them out on here. Posts like yours just now actually make me want to move away from the forum entirely, and completely sum up what Suga and I are saying.

"Do better when creating discussions"

And yet you guys don't see what we mean when we say we feel judged.

You are always judged. Aren't you judging me right now?

It's one thing to say that someone was rude to you and I really can't remember the details of that thread. But it's really weird to say that because someone was questioning the premise of a greatest of all time debate that the person was ruining a thread. And there are many ways of dealing with someone who doesn't feel that a GOAT debate is worth spending time on. The one you have chosen is very curious and amounts to "I don't like being asked hard questions."

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

You are always judged. Aren't you judging me right now?

It's one thing to say that someone was rude to you and I really can't remember the details of that thread. But it's really weird to say that because someone was questioning the premise of a greatest of all time debate that the person was ruining a thread. And there are many ways of dealing with someone who doesn't feel that a GOAT debate is worth spending time on. The one you have chosen is very curious and amounts to "I don't like being asked hard questions."

I don't need to judge you, you have made your stance/attitude very clear to all of us here.

I like hard questions, but not questions designed to make someone look stupid. There are better ways of dealing with a thread that you don't feel is worth participating in then creating a scene. Like, I don't know... Not participating?

Its just so simple.

 

[NextLevel]

Oh right, next time before we'll open a thread we'll ask Prof. NL for his expertise.
Seriously?? C'mon man!
[Emoji23]
Dude, this is something you can hope for, but definitely CAN NOT ask for. Everybody has his limitations. Do you want that people make fun of yours??

People make fun of mine all the time. You don't think that I sometimes address them and do better? Or you think people haven't told me that I have no business coaching? Or that my videos are an eyesore for table tennis? Or your comments about me making statements about exercise from my perspective (which you made without naming names, but were obviously directed at me) haven't been made by others in other contexts before?

Judging people is always a slippery slope. But it is weird to pretend that no one is doing it. And it is even weirder to ask people to respect you when you are not doing something well and placing your request in context. It would be one thing if Yecats had asked for the greatest player of the last 10 years, but he wanted to discuss the greatest player of all time, and then complained when someone pointed out what is problematic about the question. Complained about a standard problem with the question.

 

[NextLevel]

I don't need to judge you, you have made your stance/attitude very clear to all of us here.

I like hard questions, but not questions designed to make someone look stupid. There are better ways of dealing with a thread that you don't feel is worth participating in then creating a scene. Like, I don't know... Not participating?

Its just so simple.

You have judged me. I'm not sure how logic works these days, but that's the bottom line.

Sure Carl could have left a thread he felt was pointless alone. It's the paradox of whether telling people not to participate in an election is really a way of participating in the election. I'm sure you know and do better than this in practical life because you could not be as intelligent as you are if you took this approach to judgment seriously.

 

[NextLevel]

BTW, in case people think that Carl was just insulting Yecats, here is the thread:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/...-Time-Greatest&highlight=greatest+player+time

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

People make fun of mine all the time. You don't think that I sometimes address them and do better? Or you think people haven't told me that I have no business coaching? Or that my videos are an eyesore for table tennis? Or your comments about me making statements about exercise from my perspective (which you made without naming names, but were obviously directed at me) haven't been made by others in other contexts before?

Judging people is always a slippery slope. But it is weird to pretend that no one is doing it. And it is even weirder to ask people to respect you when you are not doing something well and placing your request in context. It would be one thing if Yecats had asked for the greatest player of the last 10 years, but he wanted to discuss the greatest player of all time, and then complained when someone pointed out what is problematic about the question. Complained about a standard problem with the question.

As far as I was aware, this forum isn't about "who can write the best posts" or "Who has the most TT knowledge".

If this isn't a forum where people can discuss things without knowing every single thing about TT history, than I don't want to be involved anymore.

Next time I think about starting a thread, Ill PM you and Carl first to check it is good enough before I get shut down on the forum.

 

[NextLevel]

As far as I was aware, this forum isn't about "who can write the best posts" or "Who has the most TT knowledge".

If this isn't a forum where people can discuss things without knowing every single thing about TT history, than I don't want to be involved anymore.

Next time I think about starting a thread, Ill PM you and Carl first to check it is good enough before I get shut down on the forum.

Anyone can open a thread. You are basically saying that you felt angry because people didn't respond to the thread the way you wanted them to because someone showed they had more knowledge on the subject than you did.

My answer to you is to get more knowledge so that this doesn't happen again.

If you really believe that this is an issue of people judging you or harassing you, you really need to do better.

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

Anyone can open a thread. You are basically saying that you felt angry because people didn't respond to the thread the way you wanted them to because someone showed they had more knowledge on the subject than you did.

My answer to you is to get more knowledge so that this doesn't happen again.

If you really believe that this is an issue of people judging you or harassing you, you really need to do better.

I know he is more knowledgeable than me on TT, that's obvious.

But does he have to bash it around so he can try to prove a thread is pointless, just to boost his Ego? No.

What was wrong with him using his knowledge to contribute positively towards the thread? Nothing.

He chose to use his superior knowledge to make someone else look inferior. You can't deny that. He could easily have PM'd me if he was that bothered by the threads premise.

I have had PM's over the last day from people, other than just Suga, who agree with me on the things we have been saying.

But its clearly not getting anywhere, which is really discouraging.

Anyway, unless anything worth replying to pops up, I think I am done here. The forum can go back to Daily TT Chit Chat.

"But not everyone plays TT daily so maybe its best to call it "TT Chit Chat", the premise is all wrong"

...

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

Oh and NL, the fact that people make fun of your posts/coaching/playing on here is not an excuse for you, or anyone else doing it.

 

[NextLevel]

The forum can go back to Daily TT Chit Chat.

"But not everyone plays TT daily so maybe its best to call it "TT Chit Chat", the premise is all wrong"

...

I don't think what Carl wrote was bashing and I think it was a valuable addition to your thread that educated a lot of people, including yourself and myself. I also understand how it feels to be told that there is a lot of stuff you don't know, especially when you think you knew a lot.

I want to write a lot of things that I really do not have the time to write. Have a good day.

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

I don't think what Carl wrote was bashing and I think it was a valuable addition to your thread that educated a lot of people, including yourself and myself. I also understand how it feels to be told that there is a lot of stuff you don't know, especially when you think you knew a lot.

I want to write a lot of things that I really do not have the time to write. Have a good day.

Did you see the parts where he said "Did you really just say this?!?!?!?" when I had admitted I was wrong and apologised for not knowing something before he had even said that? I then explained why I asked it, I didn't ask it again , but he still wasn't satisfied, sending another 1000 word essay my way with more unnecessary questions and a general "my knowledge is superior" attitude. As someone who wants to learn more about TT, I found his approach was discouraging.

He takes control of situations when its not necessary. Let people discuss, don't override everything.

 

[NextLevel]

Did you see the parts where he said "Did you really just say this?!?!?!?" when I had admitted I was wrong and apologised for not knowing something before he had even said that? I then explained why I asked it, I didn't ask it again , but he still wasn't satisfied, sending another 1000 word essay my way with more unnecessary questions and a general "my knowledge is superior" attitude. As someone who wants to learn more about TT, I found his approach was discouraging.

He takes control of situations when its not necessary. Let people discuss, don't override everything.

You are young. You just haven't participated in any real debates. By the standards of debating, what Carl did there was just show surprise for emphatic effect. If it was really personal, you would have gotten something like "I question your competence to open this thread given some of the things you write..."

But I guess the younger generation is learning to do these debates without the ad hominems that existed in prior times. Hopefully, great things will come of it, but count me a skeptic...

Taking control of things is called leadership. You will see that trait in many people over time. And it will irritate the hell out of you as it does me, who is a slacker in many things. And it will irritate you even more when you keep realizing they are the ones getting ahead more often than not.

 

[suds79]

Do I have any short pip players in the house?

Didn't think this warranted a whole new thread. And what I'll probably end up doing is continuing to research myself but I'm considering the following two short pips as a replacement after our tournament in a week or so here.

Right now I have 802-40 on an Air Super soft 30 deg 2.0 sponge on a a clipper classic. It's nice. the control is good but I think I'd like to opt for something with just a little more pop.

I'm thinking of either a hard sponged SP or something that's simply tuned.

Options I'm considering:

TSP Spectol Blue - A newer SP sponge I suppose designed for the 40+ ball. The blue is a little harder than the red.

TSP Spectol Red - Same as above but slightly softer sponge. I believe it's 40 deg if I remember right.

Haifu Dolphin - Suppose to be a pretty spiny SP on a tuned sponge. Thought I heard somewhere that HZW used this but can't confirm. Nonetheless, I've read good things about this also.


Anybody have experience with these or thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

You are young. You just haven't participated in any real debates. By the standards of debating, what Carl did there was just show surprise for emphatic effect. If it was really personal, you would have gotten something like "I question your competence to open this thread given some of the things you write..."

But I guess the younger generation is learning to do these debates without the ad hominems that existed in prior times. Hopefully, great things will come of it, but count me a skeptic...

Taking control of things is called leadership. You will see that trait in many people over time. And it will irritate the hell out of you. And it will irritate you even more when you keep realizing they are the ones getting ahead more often than not.

Don't generalise my generation, it makes you look a bit silly.

I'm 20, so yes I am young, but that doesn't automatically mean I can't debate, or stick up for myself. If, upon reflection, I feel that someone is being rude or trying to put me down, I'll say. If I notice that the same people do the same thing to other users, I will stick up for them. Its called not letting someone walk all over people. I want to leave this all in the past, but every time you reply you are insulting me in some way. Either telling me to get more knowledge, get better at posting, or insulting my generation. Just leave it out and let's move forward.