Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[ttmonster]

I should not be awake but what the hell Roger won ! .... Could not agree with you more NL .
Not only most people don't pay enough attention to learn the block , most of them don't care or even try to block properly in practice. When you are warming somebody up you are supposed to try your best to give the ball they want to warm up.
I could go on and on , since its a pet peeve of mine how people have fun hitting topspins harder and harder , rising in inconsistent placement till the point they are hitting so hard that it starts going down the middle/to your backhand against your perfectly placed blocks and not even realize that you were being nice , forget about blocking well when you are looping ... and then there is the other case where people cannot block flat enough and low enough ... in fact right now there is only one guy who comes on mondays that I wait for warming up, the rest of the days I try to warm up and eventually fail and lose the first match to warm up and really aim to play better after that , infact I have to go days without warming up my backhand loop drive because there isn't anybody other than the guy on Monday , to block it consistently off the bounce ...

It's really weird how often people have this misconception that the right way to hit with better players is to hit powerful smashes or powerful loops/counters. Only if the better player asks for it should you do that. Better players don't necessarily defend better against people who kill their easy balls to weird places, though that depends on style. The real question is whether you would ever have a chance to hit that ball under those conditions in a match. A better player won't be putting the ball into your strike zone when you don't have to move on a regular basis so the real issue is if you want to be doing those kinds of shots, you should discuss it. The better player may welcome it.

The other issue is the blocking technique. Many players just do not know how to block flat. No other block is correct in a warm up. The simple reason is that it is hard to understand what the ball is doing when you track a bad block off your topspin. Unfortunately, many coaches don't teach blocking to adult beginners and never work hard to reach practice blocks, so many players block with power, block with sidespin,block with topspin and other varieties. You watch the top players and no matter how they block in a match, they block with a basic technique during the warmup. It's a simple way to let the looper calibrate their stroke and will make you a valuable practice partner to any player as the ball is easy to track and the basic block is easy to adjust to higher level loops. That said, no matter your technique, the most important thing is to feed a consistent ball. Few things are more frustrating than people who both have bad technique and then bash the ball and block with topspin and sidespin when the warmup starts. It's okay to do these things after a certain number if shots (say 5 or 10 from the looper) bur not to do them all the time. And definitely not in a match warmup if your goal is good etiquette. But maybe if I had better knees, I would ignore it more often but usually, I just ask to start the match.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Tough to do well in a tournament playing outside your comfort zone against someone who is playing in his, especially when he is 3 levels above you. You probably need to play him many more times to get to a point where you really are where you want to be. I find that such guys if you can play them your loop becomes more powerful as long as you can make the adjustment to topspin as being able to loop those balls powerfully when you have to look for friction makes it easier to go through the ball when there is already friction for you.

This guy wasn't playing with so much power. I mean, if he had to kill a ball, of course, he could hit a fast ball with his long pips, but in rallies his drive would be slower than a BS player. and much more flatter which means you can't just block it. Before i saw this guy, i didn't think such a style was possible with long pimples. His rubber had a small sponge though (1mm ?). I don't remember his blade type.

 

[Archosaurus]

@NextLevel

I'd also like to add that a solid block will invite all kinds of people to play/train with you, because lower level players might be used to inconsistent blocks and frustrated that their balls don't come back like they'd want. Having the chance to play with someone who pushes them a little without just blasting the ball past them seems to be a thing lower level players like.

 

[NextLevel]

This guy wasn't playing with so much power. I mean, if he had to kill a ball, of course, he could hit a fast ball with his long pips, but in rallies his drive would be slower than a BS player. and much more flatter which means you can't just block it. Before i saw this guy, i didn't think such a style was possible with long pimples. His rubber had a small sponge though (1mm ?). I don't remember his blade type.

I can show you a few such players. In the US we have Dickie Fleisher and Jay Lee. The sponge makes it easier to hit and the pips may be somewhere between medium and long. Fleisher plays with OX though I believe.

If you learn to push or counter hit their balls consistently it can help as well as they do make mistakes too. But the common mistake is covering the ball as if you are looping topspin.

 

[NextLevel]

I should not be awake but what the hell Roger won ! .... Could not agree with you more NL .
Not only most people don't pay enough attention to learn the block , most of them don't care or even try to block properly in practice. When you are warming somebody up you are supposed to try your best to give the ball they want to warm up.
I could go on and on , since its a pet peeve of mine how people have fun hitting topspins harder and harder , rising in inconsistent placement till the point they are hitting so hard that it starts going down the middle/to your backhand against your perfectly placed blocks and not even realize that you were being nice , forget about blocking well when you are looping ... and then there is the other case where people cannot block flat enough and low enough ... in fact right now there is only one guy who comes on mondays that I wait for warming up, the rest of the days I try to warm up and eventually fail and lose the first match to warm up and really aim to play better after that , infact I have to go days without warming up my backhand loop drive because there isn't anybody other than the guy on Monday , to block it consistently off the bounce ...

I fully sympathize with you. To be fair, one thing I will say is that it makes you a better player to be able to adjust to these balls. But the problem is that the opponents often don't appreciate what you are doing for them and cannot so the same for you. Really bad.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote and have a comparable situation here. In fact, it might sound crazy but I get my best looping practice vs my students now as they are the ones that pay me to teach them to block and I can iron out their blocking issues. I almost want to give them discounts when they learn to block as I teach it as without them, in some ways I would be screwed.

That said, Brett really told me to clean up my warm up block in September as even though I tried to keep it consistent, I sometimes used to kick block. Now, I ask for permission before doing so and only block flat unless I am trying to get my students to read and adjust to the ball.

The other thing is that as your block gets better, if people are looping with spin, you will be able to block anything when you know where it is going, no matter the power. It is the guys who try to blast the ball past you in the warm up by taking it off the bounce that you know have issues.

 

[Shuki]

Back to the lefty advantage question, I asked a lefty at my club (who in his prime was over 2300, his daughter much better than him) if he had more trouble against other leftys.

He said there wasn't an unfamiliarity problem because they usually had just as much experience against other Left handed players as he had. So it felt like equal footing to him.

He also said "being unfamiliar with a new player is a much bigger difference than unfamiliar against left handed players." -paraphrase

Which makes sense to me. I'm imagining playing against someone like NL with his way of stroking the ball being just as unfamiliar to me as playing a lefty at his level

I asked


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[Shuki]

@ low level players blocking

This is super good to learn because it will make other players enjoy hitting with you more. Its also one of, if not the most important skill to learn.

This is actually the path I took. I think doing this all the time causes my game to change style completely though. I started passive blocking because it was the easiest way for me to get the ball back. My grip slowly changed into a super chocked up grip for feeling with no power behind it. Then when I started doing more to the ball, it was always super soft. So even though this way of hitting with better players will make them want to hit with you more and provide you with more experience. It can hinder you in some ways.

If you don't have a coach and have no other opportunities to play with higher quality balls then this blocking consistently is extremely valuable for you to improve.


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[Flatstyk]

I fully sympathize with you. To be fair, one thing I will say is that it makes you a better player to be able to adjust to these balls. But the problem is that the opponents often don't appreciate what you are doing for them and cannot so the same for you. Really bad.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote and have a comparable situation here. In fact, it might sound crazy but I get my best looping practice vs my students now as they are the ones that pay me to teach them to block and I can iron out their blocking issues. I almost want to give them discounts when they learn to block as I teach it as without them, in some ways I would be screwed.

That said, Brett really told me to clean up my warm up block in September as even though I tried to keep it consistent, I sometimes used to kick block. Now, I ask for permission before doing so and only block flat unless I am trying to get my students to read and adjust to the ball.

Please explain the term "kick block"... Thanks.

 

[NextLevel]

Please explain the term "kick block"... Thanks.

Topspin block like a mini-loop. The problem is that when the topspin is increased to make the ball rise up and down in a vertical plane, the ball is harder to track. Some players like the extra topspin but most will hate the fact that the ball is not easy to track and will racket edge it or loop it long after a few.

 

[ttmonster]

I like to do like a forearm snap on both sides , it really helps in increasing the feeling for loop , as in the feeling for a block is where you are feeling that you are consistently hitting the ball in the middle , but the feeling for the loop is that you are able to sink the ball in the sponge, doing mini loops from either end really helps me in this . However, there is again only one guy against which I can do it consistently because you need a lot of consistency and focus to do this from either end , close to the table ... kind of like practicing backhand counter loop drives like the girls like to do only on the forehand side ...

Topspin block like a mini-loop. The problem is that when the topspin is increased to make the ball rise up and down in a vertical plane, the ball is harder to track. Some players like the extra topspin but most will hate the fact that the ball is not easy to track and will racket edge it or loop it long after a few.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Some of the issue with warming up is that some people are just--well--apply a bad word that means unintelligent here: ________ about warming up--and so they think that slapping the ball away from you when you nicely hit it to them, is what warming up is about.

Very quickly, this type of player gets on my nerves and I just instantly say, after a few hits on each side, let's just play a match. Once the match starts, it is a different story. But I am not going to train with a player like that. It would be a big waste of time.

Then there is the rest of people who just don't have the control to put the ball where they want. This doesn't bother me. With those people, as long as they are trying, I just think of the warmup as a random drill.

I already understand that I have more control than most players who are actually my level. I think TTMonster and I may be similar in that. Technique is good. Control is good. If a few pieces of the puzzle fall out in the right places our level will jump.

And because of that control and consistency, a lot of guys who are higher level than I am are willing to train with me.

They know they will get quality training hitting with me because of my control and because I get how to warm up and how to train.


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[Boogar]

This reminds me, are there any new recordings of you playing carl? I remember the ones from your last TTD get together.

 

[ttmonster]

You might find them if you search for "New York celebs playing ping pong" on google Boogar, certainly not here

This reminds me, are there any new recordings of you playing carl? I remember the ones from your last TTD get together.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This reminds me, are there any new recordings of you playing carl? I remember the ones from your last TTD get together.

I keep on thinking I want to record while playing. But then I don't. I really should.

Right now I am goofing around with a robot. It is my sister's robot. I should probably record a little. Robot isn't human. But there are things that you can see from them too.

I have not hit with a robot in a few years. But I started realizing that, with all that work I did on my FH, that my FH is now actually a decent amount better than my BH for most things. So I was working on the fundamental BH stroke. And changing things a little. With my BH, for a while I was working on closing the racket to go over the top more fully for looping. And I just realized that angling the racket to brush the side/top is much easier.


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[ttmonster]

Don't get me wrong I was just pulling your leg since we are all jealous about the level of table tennis crowd you get to hang with Carl ...

I keep on thinking I want to record while playing. But then I don't. I really should.

Right now I am goofing around with a robot. It is my sister's robot. I should probably record a little. Robot isn't human. But there are things that you can see from them too.

I have not hit with a robot in a few years. But I started realizing that, with all that work I did on my FH, that my FH is now actually a decent amount better than my BH for most things. So I was working on the fundamental BH stroke. And changing things a little. With my BH, for a while I was working on closing the racket to go over the top more fully for looping. And I just realized that angling the racket to brush the side/top is much easier.


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[Suga D]

I'm using my new racket (with Rakza 7 Soft) for a few months now and I noticed that the rubbers got some stains on them. I take really good care of my equipment, I clean it everytime after I've used it and put protection foil on the rubbers before I put it in my bat case. I use both demineralized water and Tibhar Bio rubber cleaner. Is this normal with this (kind of) rubber? The Mark V rubbers on my old racket only show wear, no stains.

Here's a picture:

View attachment 11890

Hey, this somehow got burried.
I've never played with the Rakza but i had stains like that on my old BluefireM3, but it still was grippy and played well.
I don't think you'd have to worry a lot about that. For the next couple of months it still should be good, and after that, well.....its life will be over anyways.

 

[pgpg]

I can show you a few such players. In the US we have Dickie Fleisher and Jay Lee. The sponge makes it easier to hit and the pips may be somewhere between medium and long. Fleisher plays with OX though I believe.

If you learn to push or counter hit their balls consistently it can help as well as they do make mistakes too. But the common mistake is covering the ball as if you are looping topspin.

This style can give fits to people who are not familiar with it and have not been exposed to LP balls enough (yes, you can hit with them...). I only heard great stories about Dickie Fleischer, but Jay plays in my club, so I got a bit of close-up experience and played him a few times. Having pips on my BH helps, but it's a very frustrating style to play against, especially if they have a great touch. .

NextLevel is right that most of mistakes are due to treating these balls as if they are topspin (they are not).

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Don't get me wrong I was just pulling your leg since we are all jealous about the level of table tennis crowd you get to hang with Carl ...

That is the stuff I'd love to get recordings of. But when it is happening, I would much rather focus on play than trying to get some footage.

Did film today. To some extent it was worth because you always see stuff when you do film. But in another way, it did throw off the rhythm of what I had been working on.

However, when I upload some footage, you guys will get to see the value and benefit of the shoe tripod in action. All I did was put the shoe+phone on the table and film. It was funny the times I hit the shoe.

***The idea for the shoe tripod is from Mark Croitoroo.


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[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

one of the matches I lost in the tournament on Saturday. I think I should be able to win this type of guys, but I lost once again. At the very end of the match, i'm suddenly utterly collapsing by myself...while it seemed that i was getting the upper hand.

it just shows that I'm lacking what it needs to close a set/game: reliable serve+3rd attack or receive +4th combos tactics.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This reminds me, are there any new recordings of you playing carl? I remember the ones from your last TTD get together.

Right now I am goofing around with a robot. It is my sister's robot. I should probably record a little. Robot isn't human. But there are things that you can see from them too.

First video. I did this from the center of the table because you can't turn from the BH side. Not enough room. Here I am working on BH hook and FH inside out. FH is just a simple counterhit.

Second video with same stuff as first:

Mixing FH crosscourt and down the line, and counterhit and loop.

Second video of this exercise:

BH loop with new contact point on side of ball:

Second video of BH Crosscourt:

All the stuff I am doing on the robot is pretty simple and is about working on something. That angle for my forearm on the BH really makes spinning the outside of the ball much easier. Previously I was coming straight over the top and I really had to close the racket a lot more to get the spin. This felt much more effortless. And as I was watching my BH shots I could see the sidespin curve with the topspin arc.


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