Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Der_Echte]

TWI... What city and club you at?

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[OldschoolPenholder]

The level of spin he produces when he loops is just different ... I don't even see the ball when he power loops it from off the table if I am at the table.

Heh heh ... i can relate ... I'm thinking, "Let NL (or Der_Echte, Carl, PPH, 42&bp) loop, i can block it." and you/they loop and i don't even see it LOLOLOL

 

[ttmonster]

Let me put it in coding terminology ... you are too worried about the boundary conditions ... we know our boundaries so we are more worried about how the main part of the code works .... hope this helps to explain what's going on ... you can always swing at 100 mph and loop with just the topsheet , I have seen one of my friends do that and not get the issue even after explaining and demonstrating ... so I told my friend to find a chopper to practice with , when you loop against heavy chop there is no hiding , there are somethings which you cannot realize through academic discussion unless you feel it yourself ...

Just because it makes sense doesn't mean it's right.

My overall quality has increased lately, and I'm not swinging much faster at all than before. So I understand where ttmonster is coming from. It's not just the energy, it's where it goes, really. You can swing as fast as you want and miss the ball and that'll be that.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Some thoughts/adjustments hitting with the American Hinoki CPen/Tenergy 80-FX (was thinking last night why i miss some shots and they don't land on the other side of the table):

* the setup is very fast for me and very bouncy
* i am used to playing with chinese rubbers/slower rubbers and/or slower blades
* i am muscling my smashes
* i have to slow down my smash stroke with this setup and guessing it would be just as effective as if i muscled the smash with my old setups
* there are many shots i returned that i truly believe it's the setup returning, that is, i was late to the ball and just lucky to make contact and the ball bounces off and lands on the other side - this will take a long time for me to get used to on the feel/touch

It will take a looooonnnng time to change my strokes and/or slow it down LOL

 

[Archosaurus]

Let me put it in coding terminology ... you are too worried about the boundary conditions ... we know our boundaries so we are more worried about how the main part of the code works .... hope this helps to explain what's going on ... you can always swing at 100 mph and loop with just the topsheet , I have seen one of my friends do that and not get the issue even after explaining and demonstrating ... so I told my friend to find a chopper to practice with , when you loop against heavy chop there is no hiding , there are somethings which you cannot realize through academic discussion unless you feel it yourself ...

I've only really used hard sponge rubbers, to be fair. There's probably something in the feel that I'm missing. I know how to adjust between "thin brush" and "thick brush" but it's very on/off. Not much inbetween.

 

[ttmonster]

For the setup you mentioned , my experience is that you have use smaller stroke , focus on taking the ball early with softer hands and only try to make spin and not hit through opponnents . The more consistency you build with those setups automatically over period of time you will find that the power is coming because of timing and not muscling ... perfect example of this is how Timo approaches the game ...

Some thoughts/adjustments hitting with the American Hinoki CPen/Tenergy 80-FX (was thinking last night why i miss some shots and they don't land on the other side of the table):

* the setup is very fast for me and very bouncy
* i am used to playing with chinese rubbers/slower rubbers and/or slower blades
* i am muscling my smashes
* i have to slow down my smash stroke with this setup and guessing it would be just as effective as if i muscled the smash with my old setups
* there are many shots i returned that i truly believe it's the setup returning, that is, i was late to the ball and just lucky to make contact and the ball bounces off and lands on the other side - this will take a long time for me to get used to on the feel/touch

It will take a looooonnnng time to change my strokes and/or slow it down LOL

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

For the setup you mentioned , my experience is that you have use smaller stroke , focus on taking the ball early with softer hands and only try to make spin and not hit through opponnents . The more consistency you build with those setups automatically over period of time you will find that the power is coming because of timing and not muscling ... perfect example of this is how Timo approaches the game ...

I have slowly come to the conclusion, especially after the somewhat epiphany i had last night. Agree with you. However, agreeing with you and implementing are 2 different animals. Will take me forever LOL

Thank you ttmonster!

 

[ttmonster]

you are welcome ! Its easier to do than you think OSPH , we have this mindset that prevents us from closer to the table and underestimate the quality of the stroke when you take stuff off the bounce and early , mainly because we think our reflexes are not good enough, not understand that taking time away from the opponent is an easier solution than trying to hit through them and , because its off the bounce there is not "aha" arc in the ball ... I am myself guilty of these things but I have seen wonders happening with apparently lesser quality strokes when I am closer to the table ...

there are two approaches , the one favored by modern coaches where they teach you smaller strokes from the outset and the other one , which even waldner talked about in his interviews somwhere, which goes like if you have mastered the bigger stroke and you are good enough you will be able to adjust the size of the stroke when you are closer to the table ... it will take a little time but you will get it .. just be water my friend good luck !

I have slowly come to the conclusion, especially after the somewhat epiphany i had last night. Agree with you. However, agreeing with you and implementing are 2 different animals. Will take me forever LOL

Thank you ttmonster!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

haha at me!

Although I play close to the table, as 42andbackpains constantly reminds me ... "don't go for the long swing for the loop, it's not the 80's!" ... shorten it... also, be more square to the table ... i'm used to being "bladed" due to some martial arts training. Despite Lao Wa and modern coaches, will take some time to reprogram my "muscle memory" ('muscles have no memory!'.

you are welcome ! Its easier to do than you think OSPH , we have this mindset that prevents us from closer to the table and underestimate the quality of the stroke when you take stuff off the bounce and early , mainly because we think our reflexes are not good enough, not understand that taking time away from the opponent is an easier solution than trying to hit through them and , because its off the bounce there is not "aha" arc in the ball ... I am myself guilty of these things but I have seen wonders happening with apparently lesser quality strokes when I am closer to the table ...

there are two approaches , the one favored by modern coaches where they teach you smaller strokes from the outset and the other one , which even waldner talked about in his interviews somwhere, which goes like if you have mastered the bigger stroke and you are good enough you will be able to adjust the size of the stroke when you are closer to the table ... it will take a little time but you will get it .. just be water my friend good luck !

 

[ttmonster]

One thing might help is when you warm up , don't warm up your big loops , just stand close to the table ans use your forearm snap to topspin and counter and ask the other guy to first block and then counter with you .... basically counter mini loops when warming up and stick your elbow close to the body ...

haha at me!

Although I play close to the table, as 42andbackpains constantly reminds me ... "don't go for the long swing for the loop, it's not the 80's!" ... shorten it... also, be more square to the table ... i'm used to being "bladed" due to some martial arts training. Despite Lao Wa and modern coaches, will take some time to reprogram my "muscle memory" ('muscles have no memory!'.

 

[Archosaurus]

@ttmonster

For a long time I had big problems making power, and even getting drives over the net consistently was difficult. So I took big swings at everything.

Now with the same setup, I'm moving on to smaller swings, mostly because they're much more reliable in quality and consistency and simply feel safer with my current technique. For example instead of always fishing or lifting weird balls back, I can spin them up safely with a small loop stroke. I'm even making more power than before.

 

[JeffM]

I have injured myself in the shoulder last Thursday in a specific motion during playing table tennis. It was a very high ball bit closer to the net than I would like it to, and I was lazy when smashing it. I didn't use my body much and just internally rotated my arm so the forehand rubber faces down and tried smashing it down from the end of the table. Then my arm felt like it was stopped in the motion of smashing down, like something was stuck, before it was released to continue. Afterwards, I felt pain. I rested for 20-30 min before I played another doubles, and then I left it because something feels wrong. That night, I was not able to move my shoulder in any slight way, as it would cause significant pain.

The next day, I went to see my physio. He said it was not anything serious, probably my deltoid was tight and then it contracted and could not relax. So he just did needling to release the tension of the muscle. It did feel better immediately after he did it. And I have rested (i.e. no table tennis since then). However, I still feel a bit abnormal now, with certain movements of the shoulder, I can sometimes feel a slight discomfort.

Does anyone have any experience with this type of problem? I am worried I might have damaged the structure of the shoulder.

 

[Archosaurus]

I have injured myself in the shoulder last Thursday in a specific motion during playing table tennis. It was a very high ball bit closer to the net than I would like it to, and I was lazy when smashing it. I didn't use my body much and just internally rotated my arm so the forehand rubber faces down and tried smashing it down from the end of the table. Then my arm felt like it was stopped in the motion of smashing down, like something was stuck, before it was released to continue. Afterwards, I felt pain. I rested for 20-30 min before I played another doubles, and then I left it because something feels wrong. That night, I was not able to move my shoulder in any slight way, as it would cause significant pain.

The next day, I went to see my physio. He said it was not anything serious, probably my deltoid was tight and then it contracted and could not relax. So he just did needling to release the tension of the muscle. It did feel better immediately after he did it. And I have rested (i.e. no table tennis since then). However, I still feel a bit abnormal now, with certain movements of the shoulder, I can sometimes feel a slight discomfort.

Does anyone have any experience with this type of problem? I am worried I might have damaged the structure of the shoulder.

I can't help you much, but I offer my sympathies. Several weeks ago I injured myself doing a really bad form forehand shot while stretched, and I still occasionally wake up to tingling and slight pain in my body. A bad case of nerve pinch.

What I learned: Always warmup, don't be lazy on any shots. Good form is there for a reason.

 

[ttmonster]

we are back to square one then , you want to go another round ?

@ttmonster

For a long time I had big problems making power, and even getting drives over the net consistently was difficult. So I took big swings at everything.

Now with the same setup, I'm moving on to smaller swings, mostly because they're much more reliable in quality and consistency and simply feel safer with my current technique. For example instead of always fishing or lifting weird balls back, I can spin them up safely with a small loop stroke. I'm even making more power than before.

 

[Archosaurus]

we are back to square one then , you want to go another round ?

Sure, when I come back. For now, I will go and see what my body lets me do at the table. I'll be more careful this time: probably little to no looping.

Greg Letts has a pretty good video on adapting the forehand loop for injured and older players, here:

I'm doing this kind of adaptation right now, just to find out what feels good and what doesn't. Maybe if I listen to my body now, it will help me understand the game better. It sure as hell helped my forehand swing form when I injured my tricep last time.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Si-hing,

A Like for a speedy and healthy recovery!

I had shoulder discomfort, not deltoid though... rotator cuff... did some exercises as well as wife wanting me to go to an acupuncturist.

Good luck!

I have injured myself in the shoulder last Thursday in a specific motion during playing table tennis. It was a very high ball bit closer to the net than I would like it to, and I was lazy when smashing it. I didn't use my body much and just internally rotated my arm so the forehand rubber faces down and tried smashing it down from the end of the table. Then my arm felt like it was stopped in the motion of smashing down, like something was stuck, before it was released to continue. Afterwards, I felt pain. I rested for 20-30 min before I played another doubles, and then I left it because something feels wrong. That night, I was not able to move my shoulder in any slight way, as it would cause significant pain.

The next day, I went to see my physio. He said it was not anything serious, probably my deltoid was tight and then it contracted and could not relax. So he just did needling to release the tension of the muscle. It did feel better immediately after he did it. And I have rested (i.e. no table tennis since then). However, I still feel a bit abnormal now, with certain movements of the shoulder, I can sometimes feel a slight discomfort.

Does anyone have any experience with this type of problem? I am worried I might have damaged the structure of the shoulder.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

TWI... What city and club you at?

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a club just 2mns from JeongJa station in Bundang-gu

its brand new just one month old; i was there because the owner is a teammate in Japan. Not many people coming yet, i heard there was already another venue a very short walking distance from this one.

 

[chuckjordan2]

Congratulations @boogar. Your thread has gone on, and on, and on for 1 year!

 

[Archosaurus]

Did some drills today, block vs loop.

Was all fine, but near the end a nerve in my upper back felt like it was not agreeing anymore with what I was doing, so I just went home before I get a one way ticket to Snap City.

I'll take a week off and check back, so I don't cause any more injuries. If it still feels even a bit weird, I check back a week later.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Archo,

You are very young ... since it has gone on for some time, I don't recall, did you see a doctor yet?

A Like for a speedy and healthy recovery.

Did some drills today, block vs loop.

Was all fine, but near the end a nerve in my upper back felt like it was not agreeing anymore with what I was doing, so I just went home before I get a one way ticket to Snap City.

I'll take a week off and check back, so I don't cause any more injuries. If it still feels even a bit weird, I check back a week later.