Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[ttmonster]

OSPH is like ...

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

osph is like ...

bwhahahahahahaha!!

 

[yoass]

Hi,
hope you will get back your form soon. I noticed you like to hit the ball in the descending phase. Hitting the ball earlier might help in developing your technique.

Thanks ajtatosmano2, and OSPH for your kind compliments.

While I may play like a giant squid, the analysis might still help.

* I experimented with timing, starting out taking the ball rather late. Intentional, but it is an area I'm sometimes a slacker in; more forward is better, this is visible near the end
* My stroke is (too) long, and my finishing point is erratic making the stroke flow unnatural/slightly cramped
* Consequently, reset-to-position could be better
* Balance should be slightly more forward on the ball of the feet, making the feet less static, more able to turn to aid the stroke development and improve head speed at impact
* Stance should be slightly lower
* Feet movement (hops) is not as bad as I feared

Based upon this (also suggested by a coach that I showed this footage) I plan to

* Visualize movement, mainly to improve the timing (head spead at impact efficiency)
* Perform shadow strokes, focusing on breathing and balance (keep breathing central an stable in the following)
* Repeat with robot/multiball feed at low speed, focusing on timing
* Repeat at higher speed, still focused on timing optimization
* Repeat at higher speed, varying speed/spin (slow and curvy to maximum acceleration/energy transfer) and placement

Hope I'll be able to (phyically, and planningwise) do this, and if so I'll be taking some footage for reference purposes.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

yoass,

IMO, you are looking good given that you are coming back from an injury ... a neck injury at that!

Keep up the good work!

~osph

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Hit some last night. Sorry no video. Ankle acted up, was a little gimpy. Slapped on ankle brace.

1) With P, who is a pretty steady partner. Past few times I've concentrated on SH BH and RPB. Same thing last night. 30 mins... good practice.

2) With the woman PH smasher/blocker ... have not hit with her in a long time. With her I was confident I could let rip my FH loops ... felt good to oldschool longstroke loop. Started medium speed and short stroke and progressed to ripping longstroke loops. 30 mins... good practice.

3) Hit with P - same stuff. 30 mins.

4) Hit with K next ... i jokingly refer to him as my arch-nemesis... never beaten him in a match, at best took 2 games from him, but mostly i get shutout. I rush my shots overall and with him i seem to do it moreso. He is working on his defense and converted from PH to SH. Been playing SH for 3 yrs or so. Very steady.

Of all the members, he sympathizes with me and understands my situation of a 30+ yrs break. In the past, he saw me try to work on the RPB and see me switch to SH from time to time. He has worked with me and when there's no one next on the table, he coaches me.

Last night, worked on the SH BH flip/BH loop. He gave me some tips, although basic, it was good to hear (again and again and again and ...) and work on.

* Relax
* Play steady and return the ball ... K knows I rush my shots, always looking to finish the point and more often than not, the result is i miss and lose the point
* There is no ball you cannot return if you are in position and can read the spin
* Look at the spin of the ball and not at the arm/hand/racket of partner
* No spin will move forward and faster than spin
* Shots with spin will break and slow down
* SH BH loop - vs top/no spin, loop stroke forward more; vs downspin - loop stroke up more
* Cannot be a robot and use the same stroke over and over ... must read the spin of the ball and make adjustments
* Move to where the ball is



I have old man memory ... any mistakes in understanding or transcription is mine.

Practiced for 30 mins. Thanked K profusely for his patience, time and tips.

 

[ttmonster]

Waldner said if you can win one game off somebody you should think that you are capable enough to win a match ... may be you subconsciously think he is too superior to you for you to beat ?

4) Hit with K next ... i jokingly refer to him as my arch-nemesis... never beaten him in a match, at best took 2 games from him, but mostly i get shutout. I rush my shots overall and with him i seem to do it moreso. He is working on his defense and converted from PH to SH. Been playing SH for 3 yrs or so. Very steady.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Waldner said if you can win one game off somebody you should think that you are capable enough to win a match ... may be you subconsciously think he is too superior to you for you to beat ?

No, K is steady and smart. He just returns the ball and lets me make mistakes which he knows I will ... i rush too much, win 1 out 3 or 1 out of 4 points - losing formula.

 

[ttmonster]

Okay, so I have heard this and IMHO that its very advanced Jedi / Taichi skill to be able to tell the spin of the ball only by the arc. I think you should practice this , follow the ball , watch the paddle of the opponent , follow the ball again ...
At this point I can quickly come up with two scenarios where its extremely difficult to tell the spin on the ball by its behavior :

1. Subtle changes of axis on corkscrew
2. Somebody taking the ball early and switching between pushing with backspin vis-a-vis just lifting the ball ..

* Look at the spin of the ball and not at the arm/hand/racket of partner
* No spin will move forward and faster than spin

 

[ttmonster]

Then half of your problem is solved, you just need to dial down your attack a notch and keep hitting him on his weaknesses and when he changes from defense to offense start moving him around the table .. that should do it ... easier said than done

No, K is steady and smart. He just returns the ball and lets me make mistakes which he knows I will ... i rush too much, win 1 out 3 or 1 out of 4 points - losing formula.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

easier said than done

LOLOLOL ... sadly always is

yeah i know to dial down the attack a notch, as well as relax and wait a half second to full second before hitting the ball ... but muscle memory and low-level playing mentality kicks in and takes over ... despite the 30+ yrs break, i've not done enough playing/training the past 2 yrs since my unretirement to break the old bad habits developed from playing regularly 7 to 10 yrs when younger.

---------------------

part of my challenges of reading spin ... i'm myopic/near-sighted ... i have not worn glasses while playing with any regularity... not used to it, don't like it ... plus, i work up a sweat and constantly would have to take glasses off before wiping

because i'm near-sighted, one would think i should be able to read spin when the ball gets closer but i don't

lastly, may be reliving my childhood by association - no glasses - i'm forever young lol

so at some point in my future, i may be a glasses-wearing-shakehander - we will see ... note well ... you, K, and M thinks I should convert to SH ... 42andbackpains and our old TT crew thinks, to put it nicely lol, i should not convert.

 

[ttmonster]

Point is if you are worried about looking old , then you should change your handle to NewAgePenholder instead of OldSchoolPenholder ...

For the record, I strongly support wearing glasses , I am not sure how bad your myopia is , but for me its not just about reading the spin its also about having the confidence and avoiding the confusing ... may be contacts ... ? .. putting on glasses has helped me a lot ... to prevent the sweat I have a three pronged strategy ....

1. We a skull wrap ... the kind worn under helmets
2. Put some vaseline on the forehead
3. Wear a tennis wrist band where you can wipe your sweat without having to go for the towel everytime ...


... and you know my stand on switching to SH ...

LOLOLOL ... sadly always is

yeah i know to dial down the attack a notch, as well as relax and wait a half second to full second before hitting the ball ... but muscle memory and low-level playing mentality kicks in and takes over ... despite the 30+ yrs break, i've not done enough playing/training the past 2 yrs since my unretirement to break the old bad habits developed from playing regularly 7 to 10 yrs when younger.

---------------------

part of my challenges of reading spin ... i'm myopic/near-sighted ... i have not worn glasses while playing with any regularity... not used to it, don't like it ... plus, i work up a sweat and constantly would have to take glasses off before wiping

because i'm near-sighted, one would think i should be able to read spin when the ball gets closer but i don't

lastly, may be reliving my childhood by association - no glasses - i'm forever young lol

so at some point in my future, i may be a glasses-wearing-shakehander - we will see ... note well ... you, K, and M thinks I should convert to SH ... 42andbackpains and our old TT crew thinks, to put it nicely lol, i should not convert.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Point is if you are worried about looking old , then you should change your handle to NewAgePenholder instead of OldSchoolPenholder ...

LOL ... for the record, i don't care what i look like, or how others view me... i care to keep a 'forever young' state of mind ... i associate glasses with age ... and trying to hide the 5 strands of white hair that have started LOL ... yeah, living in denial is not good.

For the record, I strongly support wearing glasses , I am not sure how bad your myopia is , but for me its not just about reading the spin its also about having the confidence and avoiding the confusing ... may be contacts ... ? .. putting on glasses has helped me a lot ... to prevent the sweat I have a three pronged strategy ....

1. We a skull wrap ... the kind worn under helmets
2. Put some vaseline on the forehead
3. Wear a tennis wrist band where you can wipe your sweat without having to go for the towel everytime ...

Not sure why, i like to be as 'unencumbered' as i can ... so i max out with shorts, shirt, socks, sneakers, racket ... used to not wear a watch when playing, but as i have a smartwatch now and it measures heartbeat and steps i wear one now.

Sad in a way for me to live in denial ... sad in a way to accept the fact i'm old, will try your suggestions when wearing glasses. i used to be 20/50... forgot what i am currently - may be 100/100 or something close ... i have reading glasses (which i would wearing for play) ... my other pair are progressive and they will make me dizzy when i 'switch' between focusing on end of table to right in front of me by 'nodding' my head.

THANK YOU ttmonster!

... and you know my stand on switching to SH ...

yeah, sooner or later, i may be forced to if i want to continue to play unless i miraculously i lose 30+ lbs and my footwork is mobile/agile LOL

 

[ttmonster]

I have a lot of the same issues that you mentioned and I can totally identify with what you are saying ... having said that ... this is how I try to minimize the impact ....

1. I buy the lightest frames I can get hold of ... this is my current frame ... its large but light ...


I used to have the sporty kind with the plastic frame only on the top ... but sadly my insurance does not support it anymore ... The kind that the french guy used to wear ..

2. Putting some vaseline would not let you feel encumbered

3. You could wear a pair of shorter shorts to balance it out , believe me it helps footwork and I am not kidding

Losing 30 lbs is a big undertaking which I have currently taken up, hitting the gym everymorning or atleast 6 days a week ... even if you don't lose the muscle strengthening exercises along with some high intensity cardio really helps the footwork ... for all you know you might actually avoid switching to SH if you do it ... I know you are into Martial Arts so a lot fitter than I am but still ...

for me , putting on the wrist band on left hand does not bother me , it bothers me if I put it on the right hand ... might have something to do with my childhood habit as well because I used to prefer wearing wristbands when bowling ( in cricket ) but they used to force us not to since apparently it interfered with the batsmans sighting of the ball ... on a different but related note ... I was a little surprised when I saw they allow Liu Shiwen and Ding Ning to wear Pink wrist bands ... I would think it would distract seeing the ball , especially on the serve ...

LOL ... for the record, i don't care what i look like, or how others view me... i care to keep a 'forever young' state of mind ... i associate glasses with age ... and trying to hide the 5 strands of white hair that have started LOL ... yeah, living in denial is not good.



Not sure why, i like to be as 'unencumbered' as i can ... so i max out with shorts, shirt, socks, sneakers, racket ... used to not wear a watch when playing, but as i have a smartwatch now and it measures heartbeat and steps i wear one now.

Sad in a way for me to live in denial ... sad in a way to accept the fact i'm old, will try your suggestions when wearing glasses. i used to be 20/50... forgot what i am currently - may be 100/100 or something close ... i have reading glasses (which i would wearing for play) ... my other pair are progressive and they will make me dizzy when i 'switch' between focusing on end of table to right in front of me by 'nodding' my head.

THANK YOU ttmonster!



yeah, sooner or later, i may be forced to if i want to continue to play unless i miraculously i lose 30+ lbs and my footwork is mobile/agile LOL

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I have a lot of the same issues that you mentioned and I can totally identify with what you are saying ... having said that ... this is how I try to minimize the impact ....

1. I buy the lightest frames I can get hold of ... this is my current frame ... its large but light ...
View attachment 13634

I used to have the sporty kind with the plastic frame only on the top ... but sadly my insurance does not support it anymore ... The kind that the french guy used to wear ..

I have a light enough frame luckily.

2. Putting some vaseline would not let you feel encumbered

i would feel icky ... i will try it though and see if i can get used to it. may also go to wipe and didn't remember i put it on. lol

3. You could wear a pair of shorter shorts to balance it out , believe me it helps footwork and I am not kidding

This reminds me of NextLevel's club/league member who has the strongest FH ;-)

Losing 30 lbs is a big undertaking which I have currently taken up, hitting the gym everymorning or atleast 6 days a week ... even if you don't lose the muscle strengthening exercises along with some high intensity cardio really helps the footwork ... for all you know you might actually avoid switching to SH if you do it ... I know you are into Martial Arts so a lot fitter than I am but still ...

last physical - i lost 17 lbs, mostly from being more active ... worked up from 1x of 2-3 hrs of TT a week to 3x of 2-3 hrs TT a week. But with the extended break i took, i gained some back.

Family situation now, I cannot afford to add on a gym membership. My TT "club" is a city recreation center... the TT floor shares space with the weight machines and Oly lifters. I may make use of the weights room... however, I have a lot of fun playing TT and enjoy it very much. More than lifting weights. But yeah building muscle helps in weight loss. So when i'm there for TT, I may or may not hit the weights.

Although I am into the MA, I belong to a training group and about 70% of the session is technique acquisition/maintenance. Which means generally not much calories burning. The rest of the session is 'sparring' - either or both: rattan stick sparring and empty-hands vs knife. This is much more intense, but we burn out fast ... our rounds are ~90 secs - 2 mins. We deal with an adrenaline d u m p (site won't let post the d u m p as one word) , visualization as if it was real, etc. Breathing and relaxing is key to stamina in the sparring.

Generally Sundays, I have a solo MA workout in the park. Those are the times I get to burn some calories and really work up a sweat. However, something came up with family and next few sundays I will not be able to train in the park

for me , putting on the wrist band on left hand does not bother me , it bothers me if I put it on the right hand ... might have something to do with my childhood habit as well because I used to prefer wearing wristbands when bowling ( in cricket ) but they used to force us not to since apparently it interfered with the batsmans sighting of the ball ... on a different but related note ... I was a little surprised when I saw they allow Liu Shiwen and Ding Ning to wear Pink wrist bands ... I would think it would distract seeing the ball , especially on the serve ...

Cool on the cricket and not sure why the pink wrist bands distract on the serve. My club has members who wear white t-shirts and one wall is white... i have a huge challenge in picking up the ball visually!

THANK YOU AGAIN ttmonster, points duly noted and will try them out.

 

[Boogar]

Quick question: Is having long finger nails necessary to execute the "ball-in-the-finger-tips-spinning-trick" ?

Because im trying to do it, but my finger nails are very short and the ball keeps pooping out when contact is made with my finger tips.

 

[NextLevel]

Nope, length of fingernails is not as important as catching the ball on the fingernails, which can be easier if you have long fingernails,

 

[Boogar]

Jea but mine are so short, that the ball rarely makes contact with the nails. Rather with the skin infront.

 

[suds79]

Jea but mine are so short, that the ball rarely makes contact with the nails. Rather with the skin infront.

Well when I think of that trick, I think of Xu Xin who has basically cat nails. It's weird.

Anyways, if yours are super short, you'll have to curl your fingers more to where only your nails touch the ball. Basically you can't have skin touching the ball for the effect you're looking for.

Start growing them out if you really want to do it.

 

[Boogar]

Finally a good reason to do so

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

i had this very bad tournament last Sunday. I had a 1:1 session with my coach yesterday.
Well i can't remember having a session as bad as this one for a long time.
Sure it didn't help that i went drinking yesterday night (3 whiskys) and had a short night sleep.

Basically i was very very slow, standing too upright, legs very stiff, getting tired very quickly (fast heart beat, sweating like crazy), and i was missing really a lot despite the coach adjusting to my condition (slower and easier balls)

Especially it was a total failure on FH against underspin and I felt like i completely forgot how to play !!! well i've been struggling for a long time with these balls but that was really really bad. My BH was a more stable but not as good as usual.

The only good thing was being able to relax at the local hot "sento" (hot bath) after the session .

The coach pointed me again and again that my upper body is too upright and said again the reason is probably my lack of core muscles and that if i don't train them seriously everyday, its never gonna change :-( .. I wonder if i can have the dedication for that.