Looking for help choosing new blade in off- region

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I have 3 Korbel blades, euro Korbel v., Jap Korbel v. And, Korbel with black tag (ancient Korbel) I've felt the ancient despite to be old and very punished, better in lightness, less headheavy, more consistent, but a bit slower, even my shots were luckier, I have a Yasaka Sweden extra (all+; off- with hard rubber) and it's less controllable because I've sticked soft rubbers, and a Yinhe E3 with non tensor rubber and it's more controllable, a little bit less feeling than Korbel, but i have to put much more effort to get the same speed and spin, and in short games over table is awesome. Sorry but wanted post smtg, much time working and not much fun.

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Honestly Carl, the JP & Euro don't look and feel the same [...]

Yes, I agree very much - "Euro is lot harder and less bendy". In my tt life I had 2 Primo JP and 2 Primo Euro (don't ask me why : ) plus I tried few other people's blades. It was always the same. Euro also tends to be head heavy, I think.

I read once somewhere, that there are two different kinds of limba, hard and soft, might it be the case?

@I've seen some of Der's feasts on the internetz ... what a subtle touch he has!! : )
 
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I've tried 1 euro and 1 japan primoracs w/ same rubbers. Same feel for me. Different finish.
Also yinhe kiso hinoki 9 and euro korbel fell also the same for me. :)
So, why do you think that amateurs should differ euro and jap versions of the same blade and give correct feedback? :)
 
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In two words: amateurs can't give correct feedback for differences b/w euro and japan versions of primorac/korbel blades. :)
 
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In two words: amateurs can't give correct feedback for differences b/w euro and japan versions of primorac/korbel blades. :)

I'm not sure about it 5hark. I don't know about thomas.pong who is with me on this issue, but I'm an amateur, and I can tell the difference ... "kill" me, but I can ... : )
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Honestly Carl, the JP & Euro don't look and feel the same, there's something a little cheap about the Euro (color and finish) and it feels a lot harder and less bendy even at a similar weight. This is on account of the different glues and quality of materials used at the Eastern Europe factory, I've read they source and used lower quality wood (not grown in the same condition, treatment...). The stats given on the Butterfly European websites for the Euro version vary significantly from the Japanese-made one. Many European forum members across several platforms have given the same feedback...

Yep. I have heard it a lot. When I got the Primoracs I got, there wasn't that issue.

But if I had 10 of each in my hand and I could try 10 of each, then I would be able to give an opinion. Without that, I can't. And I see a lot of people give an opinion without even trying 1 of the European ones. :)
 
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Yep. I have heard it a lot. When I got the Primoracs I got, there wasn't that issue.

But if I had 10 of each in my hand and I could try 10 of each, then I would be able to give an opinion. Without that, I can't. And I see a lot of people give an opinion without even trying 1 of the European ones. :)

So 10 is the threshold? Not a 2 of each ... ? : )
 
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There is something called the placebo effect and something called a self fulfilling prophecy.

I think that particular crossroads is commonly known as confirmation bias, that pesky nemesis of so many well-intending scientists.
 
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talking about the power of advice. i remember the dominus thread and how everyone told him to just play a slow controlled setup and yet a few month forward he owns 3 different korbels. I get the sensation of a good feeling setup but thats where you drop all your money. as a beginner it doesnt even matter if your primoarc is euro or japan because u dont even know what u want to feel. playing wise the differences do not even matter because they are so similiar that its not an impacting factor (for a beginner). but as a beginner and even with higher level one can just get sidetracked way to easily. but in the end people just do what they want regardless of how good the advice is.
 
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What about 3 euro and 1 jap, or 3 jap and 1 euro?

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That is not enough to point out differences. first they should be all about the same weight. second to have any statistical power you would need a really strong correlation and a bigger sample size. third even then its hard to compare because we lack empirical quantification of differences. so we base everything off of experience. You say your old korbel feels the best, yet the criteria by which you say its the best is different for other players. someone else might want his blade to be headheavy, heavy in general and faster.

And since your a beginner, a more developed player may is looking at this blade completely different.

thats the same with all those Viscaria/spirit/alc discussions.



 
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talking about the power of advice. i remember the dominus thread and how everyone told him to just play a slow controlled setup and yet a few month forward he owns 3 different korbels. I get the sensation of a good feeling setup but thats where you drop all your money. as a beginner it doesnt even matter if your primoarc is euro or japan because u dont even know what u want to feel. playing wise the differences do not even matter because they are so similiar that its not an impacting factor (for a beginner). but as a beginner and even with higher level one can just get sidetracked way to easily. but in the end people just do what they want regardless of how good the advice is.

"QWERTY Spin", but this is what we said few pages earlier - Belugma at this point (of his experience with those blades), might just toss a coin. Eventually someone said, to get JP because of finer quality and better feel.

Almost everything we talk here is experience, although there are interesting scientific approaches of how to measure the feel.
I have JP and EURO and none of any other blades, say TB ALL+ differs so much from one specific blade to another. I mean even based on those 4 blades I have, the gap is just too big ... plus we have other people confirming it.
 
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ive only read the first and last two pages and wanted to pick up on the general discussion with feeling and advice for beginners. But you are right. And i think sealing a primorac is a good idea if it is not too much trouble to do so too. The rubbers really stick to the primorac i own and u have to be careful when removing them if not sealed
 
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I just visited the store which sold the flaired handle euro Primo just 10 minutes before I arrived. Ordering would take 3 days.
Intro wasn't available in 2.0 (both colors) aswell. Ordering could take up to a week. :mad:

So, order the Primo and wait after that for the Intro? Or go with Vega Pro both sides which they had in stock? :rolleyes: Alternatively I could order the rubbers online but honestly I'd like to support local stores.
 
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That is not enough to point out differences. first they should be all about the same weight. second to have any statistical power you would need a really strong correlation and a bigger sample size. third even then its hard to compare because we lack empirical quantification of differences. so we base everything off of experience. You say your old korbel feels the best, yet the criteria by which you say its the best is different for other players. someone else might want his blade to be headheavy, heavy in general and faster.

And since your a beginner, a more developed player may is looking at this blade completely different.

thats the same with all those Viscaria/spirit/alc discussions.



Whole my Korbel are FL 89-90 grs, the consistency is about topspin, forehand to forehand

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Okay. Now more info:

1st. What QWERTY said about 10 blades that weigh the same would be a good starting point. 10 from each.

So let me talk about 10 blades. If the sample size could be 50 or 100, that would be even better.

Because wood is something that was alive, all wood is different.

Name a blade. Any blade. If you take 10 of them, they will all feel a little different. Even though they are the same kind of blade, the same construction, gluing process, thickness of plies etc.

If you took 10 of the same blade that were the same weight, they would feel closer to the same. But still, not the same.

Some blades will feel better than others. Now, what a beginner feels as good, I am really not going to take that into consideration. Because, generally, a beginner really does not know what they want to feel in a blade. Which is part of why those online reviews are so much a waste of time. 70% of the people writing them have no idea what they should be feeling.

So with a smaller sample, the likelihood of trying a good Euro blade and a bad Japan blade or vise versa is pretty high.

The likelihood of the tester to decide that the one he thinks should feel better feels better also is high. So the chance that confirmation bias gives you a false positive or many false positives is high.

And then you take into consideration that the people testing the blades may not have a clue what to look for is high as well. Now, that sounds like a recipe for poor quality test results.

Sorry. But if I had someone who I really trusted tell me they tested several euro vs jp Primoracs and thought the jp was better it would mean more to me than from someone who I am not 100% sure can tell the difference.


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What a decently advanced player feels with a blade in his hand is totally different than what a beginner feels. And touch and feel are such important skills in higher level TT. And frankly, most beginners have not developed those skills. So, quite frequently, what a beginner thinks he likes is absolutely what will hinder his development. And when a player who knows equipment well enough to tell that beginner what will really help his game, most often, that beginner just does what he wants.

QWERTY’s example of how dominus has 3 Korbels when he really should have 1 Appelgren Allplay is not a bad demonstration of this. I could use many others. But I will spare you.

So, often when good advice is given, beginners don’t know how to sort out the good from the bad: not their fault. And most frequently, they tend to get something that is a little too fast or reactive to spin for their actual needs.


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I just visited the store which sold the flaired handle euro Primo just 10 minutes before I arrived. Ordering would take 3 days.
Intro wasn't available in 2.0 (both colors) aswell. Ordering could take up to a week. :mad:

So, order the Primo and wait after that for the Intro? Or go with Vega Pro both sides which they had in stock? :rolleyes: Alternatively I could order the rubbers online but honestly I'd like to support local stores.

Ordering could take up to a week, yet this post was started almost 2 weeks ago! ;)

You really don't want to get the Vega Intro... do you?
 
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