Looking for help choosing new blade in off- region

[jawien]

I know I will probably loose a little feeling with sealing, but I have seen the Primoarc and for me the surface looks exactly like my Boll All+ which got splinters.

Belugma ..... please seal your blade. You won't disregard my feelings, by doing so, whatsoever. I'll have a closer look at the surfaces of Primo and TB All+ I have on my desk then.

Carl mentions it is not needed for Primo but highly recommends it, cool - stay with his advice. Maybe I'm just too lazy.

See, I write it without emotions, so I'm probably not "on any drugs" as some suggest (not You : ) and I wouldn't suggest it about anybody too ...

@Carl I'll just let go the last comment.

 

[OhWell]

Otherwise I would be at 12-15€ for self made wipe-on-poly, where as I am paying 8€ for the Xiom i-Sure. But I am a little unsure about the i-Sure because some people say it tempers more with the blades characteristics.

I don’t know the xiom sealant, but that’s the point: we usually don’t know what TT manufacturers put in their sealant bottles. At least in some cases, the stuff they sell as sealants is much too thick.

Yes, for a single blade, using stuff from TT manufacturers is a bit cheaper. (It’s much cheaper to use hardware store products for many blades.) But I’d much rather know what I’m putting on my blade than cross my fingers and hope it’s not rubbish.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Here: this looks good as a blade sealant:

http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/blade-lacquer-revolution-nr-3-20-ml

TT11 is a great store to order from no matter where you are. If you got everything from them, shipping will likely be free.

 

[belugma]

belugma, for sealant you go to a hardware store. You buy a can of polyurethane sealant. You buy mineral spirits which is a solvent. YOU BUY THEM. You mix them in a 1 to 1 ratio. Mineral Spirits is a SOLVENT. So buy mixing the two, it makes the sealant thin enough to wipe on. once mixed, you seal your blade.

If not, BUY a sealant from a TT brand.

If you read my post, if you seal the blade with a thin layer, you will not lose feeling.

I know, but its easier said than done here in Germany. Because I am hardly able to find some polyurethane (pu) sealant here. I asked my father if he had something like that and he showed me this:
Looks fine to me, it seems to only have urethane in it, which is a little bit different than the poly one. If I don't find anything in a store. I'll try that one. Also I have mineral spirits at home

Is Stiga Attach Power Glue alright?

Edit: Just was in a store and the only had a polyutherane can for 24€ which was honestly too much^^

 

[OhWell]

Here: this looks good as a blade sealant:

http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/blade-lacquer-revolution-nr-3-20-ml

TT11 is a great store to order from no matter where you are. If you got everything from them, shipping will likely be free.

YMMV, but that sealant caused lots of gluing problems for me. Among many other things, it made using Revo 3's own glue in humid weather near impossible. It also weirdly peels off every blade I've used it on.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

YMMV, but that sealant caused lots of gluing problems for me. Among many other things, it made using Revo 3's own glue in humid weather near impossible. It also weirdly peels off every blade I've used it on.

Good to know. I personally don't like the WB sealants. But it seemed simple.

I know, but its easier said than done here in Germany. Because I am hardly able to find some polyurethane (pu) sealant here. I asked my father if he had something like that and he showed me this: View attachment 15621View attachment 15622
Looks fine to me....

That looks like it should be fine. What solvent does the can say for cleaning?

Thin a small amount of it. Start with 1-1 sealant to solvent. See if that seems thin enough.

Once you have made it thin enough, test it out by wiping some on some piece of wood that you will not damage by spreading it. And see if you can add a thin layer with a paper towel. If it works on a regular old piece of wood, you will have an idea how it will work on the blade.

 

[belugma]

That looks like it should be fine. What solvent does the can say for cleaning?

Second picture: 'Clear, solvent based, full bodied urethane varnish with an UV-filter'.
I got mineral spirits aswell, so its gonna be cheap if my sealant is fine
I will try it the coming days. First comes the new blade with Vega Intro on both sides in 2.00 or maybe Pro/Euro if not available.

 

[KJA]

I have looked in Xiom Offensive S as someone in this thread recommended. In general, How much does 0,4 mm in thickness differ? 5,7 vs 6,1 mm? In play: softer, more stable, faster etc? Also, what are the koto / limba layer going to make for difference? (Primorac/Hadraw VK - Xiom S)

Yes, like I previously said in the post you quoted, the Hadraw VK is "the exact same composition and thickness" as the Korbel. Since the VK is made in Japan it has the same higher craftsmanship as the Korbel JP which is a bit softer and has more dwell time than its European counterpart.

I was surprised because on butterfly website it says "its new harder outer veneers", and on another old forum thread i read that Hadraw VK had koto as outer and it was not considered as a 100% upgrade to primorac. Well, i don't know anything about koto vs limba but you guys have recommended several times limba/limba/ayous/limba/limba composition. And also it would be good if it's correct if another forum member read this in the future. Now if you are sure thats good.

 

[thomas.pong]

I was surprised because on butterfly website it says "its new harder outer veneers", and on another old forum thread i read that Hadraw VK had koto as outer and it was not considered as a 100% upgrade to primorac. Well, i don't know anything about koto vs limba but you guys have recommended several times limba/limba/ayous/limba/limba composition. And also it would be good if it's correct if another forum member read this in the future. Now if you are sure thats good.

The Hadraw VK & Korbel JP are the same blade except for the headsize, they're both definitely limba/limba/ayous/limba/limba.

Limba is known as a softer wood, whereas Koto is known as a harder wood. I don't recommend Koto for you at this point.

Do you still have reserves about the blades that were recommended to you? I don't really understand...

 

[KJA]

.
Do you still have reserves about the blades that were recommended to you? I don't really understand...

I am not the thread creator. What about the thickness difference? Thanks for the answers.

(Sorry for borrowing and mess upp the thread but don't want to create another off/off- blade thread.)

 

[thomas.pong]

I am not the thread creator. What about the thickness difference? Thanks for the answers.

(Sorry for borrowing and mess upp the thread but don't want to create another off/off- blade thread.)

My bad, I had seen another thread from you and got confused. You're not messing up the thread!

I'll let someone else answer your thickness inquiry.

 

[langel]

How much does 0,4 mm in thickness differ? 5,7 vs 6,1 mm? In play: softer, more stable, faster etc?

At first glance a half mm difference is not a big deal. But depending on players style and techniques it may cost a lot.
If you are a hitter you may adapt to a thicker and more solid blade easier and maybe you will like it more.
If you are used to slice and surface brush changing to a thicker blade may corrupt a lot of your techniques and adaptation may take much longer, or even be impossible, it all depends on players feeling.
For me - I really can't play effectively with 6+ mm blades nevermind how good they are.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Offensive S is definitely stiffer. But it is a good blade.

There are many ways to make a blade faster. Sometimes a company like Stiga will add a process to harden plies or to age the wood, or a laminate on the surface, or the kind of glue used.

A thicker core is another way of making a blade faster.

 

[belugma]

@UpSideDownCarl I mixed it 1:1 ratio and tested it on a piece of wood first and it was ok. After that I sealed my Boll All+. Now it is slightly sticky, is that normal?

If I get the Primorac, I should definetly try to get the Japan Version because of the quality alone, right? And I think I am going to get the Vega Pro on fh and the Vega Intro on bh.

 

[jawien]

I have both Jap and Euro. Jap has better feel for sure, but generally feels softer. I tend to think this soft feel is not only due to its flexiness, but also to the softer limba used as an outer layer. Because of this for me when I use Primo Jap I put rubbers with harder sponges. Currently I have MX-S (fh) and Barracuda (bh). When I used T05 with Primo Jap ... well I never liked it. Soft blade and soft sponges is never a good idea.
T05 works better with Euro version in my opinion, because of it's harder surface.

Although control on Primorac Japan is really something to consider seriously ...

@Note, I'm not sure about the different limbas used for Jap or Euro, it is just that Euro is definitely harder, as somebody pointed it out earlier.

 

[belugma]

@Note, I'm not sure about the different limbas used for Jap or Euro, it is just that Euro is definitely harder, as somebody pointed it out earlier.

According to Butterfly, the only changes are that its glued together differently and its better build quality.
Quality is obviously the argument for me, but I have never seen a Japan version, so I wouldn't know the difference until I would purchase it. I can only say my old Boll All+ isn't that great in quality whereas my Kinetic All+ is better in my opinion.

Well, what does someone understand by soft rubber? Tenergy is 46°, right? Vega Pro and Vega Intro are apparently 47.5° and is told to feel softer.


Just removed the rubbers from the Kinetic All+ and it is 91g (whole bat 171g). I guess I will try to get a Primorac in the 88-91g range? Or do some certain weights play better than others?

 

[jawien]

According to Butterfly, the only changes are that its glued together differently and its better build quality.
Quality is obviously the argument for me, but I have never seen a Japan version, so I wouldn't know the difference until I would purchase it. I can only say my old Boll All+ isn't that great in quality whereas my Kinetic All+ is better in my opinion.

Well, what does someone understand by soft rubber? Tenergy is 46°, right? Vega Pro and Vega Intro are apparently 47.5° and is told to feel softer.


Just removed the rubbers from the Kinetic All+ and it is 91g. I guess I will try to get a Primorac in the 88-91 ratio? Or do some certain weights play better than others?

Well if you check the surfaces of those blades, the color differs for sure ... maybe someone have better information, how they actually differ in terms of a material used and the build process?

As for the sponge hardness I rather prefer talk about my experience and "impressions". There are different scales used and methods of measurement - I'm not an expert here and I'm not sure how MX-S and T05 would compare in numbers.
Maybe what plays a role is the overall dynamics of the sponge? Previously I had T05 and T05-fx on Primo JP and I couldn't play as much precise and controllable as with the current setup. The overall bounciness and lack of crisp feel was predominant.

 

[darucla]

Many things get lost in translation from Japan to Europe. I used to work for a Japanese manufacturer of hi fi equipment, and once had to OK a new speaker, aimed at the European market, based on Japanese-made samples. Unfortunately, the Japanese definition of high density chipboard turned out to be very different to the Euro (in this case French) one. The production speakers had cabinets which were made from much softer panels, and they sounded very different to the prototypes. So when a Japanese company says the wood is identical in a case like this, a pinch of salt is required. One would hope that single wood plies would not be so different, but...

 

[thomas.pong]

If I get the Primorac, I should definetly try to get the Japan Version because of the quality alone, right? And I think I am going to get the Vega Pro on fh and the Vega Intro on bh.

Right, if you don't mind paying a little more for a higher quality product, get the JP. Like jawien said, you'll get better control and feel out of the JP, and it'll pair better with harder rubbers like the Vegas.

The composition of the JP & Euro are the exact same, but the woods sourced, the glues, and the manufacturing, assembly and finish are far superior on the Made in Japan than the Eastern European-made Butterfly blades.

PS: When was this thread started? I can't believe you haven't bought a blade yet!

 

[belugma]

Right, if you don't mind paying a little more for a high quality product, get the JP. Like jawien said, you'll get better control and feel out of the JP, and it'll pair better with harder rubbers like the Vegas.

The composition of the JP & Euro are the exact same, but the woods sourced, the glues, and the manufacturing, assembly and finish are far superior on the Made in Japan than the Eastern European-made Butterfly blades.

PS: When was this thread started? I can't believe you haven't bought a blade yet!

Alright, I will look if my shop can order one from butterfly, if not, I need to order it myself.
Well.. what can I say? I haven't had much time the last week. Tomorrow I will visit the store