Rainer87 matchvideo

[Rainer87]

Hi! Sorry if introduction is too long. I am the one in red. Please critique my game!

I am new to this forum, last year Dan invited me to post my video in this forum. I joined, but didnt post, because I was already familiar with other forum and did see the point that time. Well, I changed my mind now and because Dan said I will find more constructive feedback over here, I finally decides to give it a go.

I will post two matches of my last tournament (held by the ITTF rules in two minus system until all positions have been determined). I played 8 matches, won 6 and lost 2. Out of 6 winners 2 were against same level opponents and 4 against weaker by the rankings.

First video is against female player to who I lost 0:3, but in overall I was pleased with my performance against her. I was in trouble with her serves (she was with mine also) and smashes what were very sharp and accurate.

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Second is one of my winning games, I have played with him several times and this is first time I beat him, I won 3:0, I feel that he was very passive and didnt play with full commitment. I have 2 first sets of our match. I had trouble with his tomahawk serves, everything else was ok against him.

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[jmillsy2]

You need to move a bit quicker (be on your toes more) and are maybe a bit too passive0 however, focus more on spin rather than speed with your shots, and if your finding yourself struggling with someones serves, perhaps take them a bit later to try and read them better- if they kick, its topspin, if it slows up a bit, its backspin. Don't just try and attack all- you must be prepared to push, especially against women! (No offence female members of the forum )

 

[jmillsy2]

also more spin on serves- I also need to improve this part of y game- get a box of balls and practice them whenever you get the opportunity e.g before a training session or if you have a table at home! You should be looking for 2/3 bounces on those backspin serves- try practicing half long ones i.e ones that will have their second bounce on the white line or will drop just past it- many people struggle on these and go for a loop, only to see it bounce twice, or take it too late (it has already gone under the level of the playing surface) also they can become nervous with your serves and push them all the time, meaning you can slip topspin/sidespin ones in through which you can perform a 3rd ball attack/kill! I do this and I'm a chopper so there's no reason why you, an attacking player, shouldn't either!!!

 

[ttmonster]

saw your first video couple of times ... I agree with Super Chopper and also just a question , why did not you try to go back hand to back hand against her. She clearly favors her forehand and believe me your backhand form is good and you should have more confidence in it. Also you could have tried to serve shorter and initiate the attack, she was all over you whenever the ball was long.
Its weird though, I haven't seen too many ladies with such a good forehand as hers, bet she grew up learning the game with boys or something ...

 

[Rainer87]

You need to move a bit quicker (be on your toes more) and are maybe a bit too passive0 however, focus more on spin rather than speed with your shots, and if your finding yourself struggling with someones serves, perhaps take them a bit later to try and read them better- if they kick, its topspin, if it slows up a bit, its backspin. Don't just try and attack all- you must be prepared to push, especially against women! (No offence female members of the forum )

also more spin on serves- I also need to improve this part of y game- get a box of balls and practice them whenever you get the opportunity e.g before a training session or if you have a table at home! You should be looking for 2/3 bounces on those backspin serves- try practicing half long ones i.e ones that will have their second bounce on the white line or will drop just past it- many people struggle on these and go for a loop, only to see it bounce twice, or take it too late (it has already gone under the level of the playing surface) also they can become nervous with your serves and push them all the time, meaning you can slip topspin/sidespin ones in through which you can perform a 3rd ball attack/kill! I do this and I'm a chopper so there's no reason why you, an attacking player, shouldn't either!!!

Thank`s for being first to answer! I do need to be more on toes and with a little bit lower stance. I watched my videos againt and again and I noticed that in the beginning I am low but after first stroke I intend to stand tall or go on heels instead of staying on my toes, very good opservation. Taking serves later means I will return them long, taking yearlier gives me change to return them short, am I right?

I am not very good at reading serves, but i quess it will come with time. About my serves then, I have been practising them at least once in the week, but it is hard to make my wrist move faster, need practise more offcourse. Also I find it difficult to keep them short because the contact has to be so percise, again more practise will help .

Thanks for reminding me these points!

 

[Rainer87]

saw your first video couple of times ... I agree with Super Chopper and also just a question , why did not you try to go back hand to back hand against her. She clearly favors her forehand and believe me your backhand form is good and you should have more confidence in it. Also you could have tried to serve shorter and initiate the attack, she was all over you whenever the ball was long.
Its weird though, I haven't seen too many ladies with such a good forehand as hers, bet she grew up learning the game with boys or something ...

Intresting point about backhand, I have been relaying mainly on my FH and thought FH was my best weapon. I always try to go as fast as possible to FH. I am not saying my bh is bad, I just prefer my FH. Do you say my Bh looks even better than my FH in technique? I will try to practise more shorts serves, like I mentioned to Super Chopper. But I believe her BH is better than it looks, she did not loop with bh (she can though) but driving and hitting was very good. I watched her play little bit before our match against others. Ok maybe her bh is weaker than her Fh and I should have pressured her bh more.

About her, then she is 18 and she has been training table tennis from young age I believe. She has very good coach and she has been practising with boys as well. Last year she won third place in North-European youth table tennis championships. I just checked that she is at the moment in ITTF rankings 921. Estonian ITTF rankings Look for Kristiina Seiton.

 

[Der_Echte]

On a lot of your BH vs the female player, you missed a LOT of points with your BH. You seemed to serve, then immediately back away from the table. When you attempted a BH shot, you were off balance going backwards and hitting too far in front of you. It seemed a lot of your FH topspins were using too much arm and impacting the ball with the elbow too far away from body. Some of your FH topspin balls where you kept your elbow bent landed well. Your service looks very ackward, almost like your timing is a bit lagging. A little higher ball toss or starting the backswing/swing might help that. As already noted, you failed to serve long. That did not appear by design. it really looks like short serve is not in your dictionary... yet. if you can learn to consistantly hit the bottom of the ball and make the 1st bounce halfway to net, you will become much happier vs the female player. If you could somehow stay closer to the table, you would be in a much better position to block AND also be ready to putaway your opponent's weak shots. Your BH topspin appears to be extending arm too far in front of body and relying on arm/shoulder too much. You will not land a high percentage of BH loops that way with any consistancy. Try impacting the ball closer to your body. Some of that is from being out of position or not moving completely into position. It is difficult to make a high percentage landing on BH loops while oon the move. Much easier to do that on FH wing. Your balance appeared to hurt your shot percentages a lot. It also hurt your ability to move effectively. Whenever you managed to stay on balance, you were able to nicely cover your wide FH, often for a winner or good pressure.

You have a LOT to work upon, but if I had to limit it to 3 things, I would say improve Serve & Receive, try impacting the ball closer to body with bent elbow, and try staying closer to the table until you are forced back.

 

[Der_Echte]

I just played a left handed version of this kind of female player in a tourney today spotting her 2 points and won. She prefers to hit more than loop, but is a powerhouse of serve/attack and will punish any loose ball 100% without a miss. The key is to attack the serve to prevent her opening the attack. It doesn't have to be a particularly strong or spinny attack, but one that will make her uncomfortable attacking, that is enough if you are prepared to strongly attack the next ball. On serve/attack, I focused on HEAVY spin as shallow or as deep as possible. Many close to the table attackers do not like these heavy topspins and do not attack or block them well. they will kill you in BH to BH or FH to FH rallies where there is not a lot of spin, but much speed. These female attacking players without a very heavy loop seem to live for those moments. My key was to not even let her get started. You have to be good on serve receive for it to work, or you will get eaten alive on serve receive points. Ditto for your own serve/attack. You pass up the chance to attack a long return by pushing the ball back and you are asking for the opponent to become a beast. You will not outlast this type of player close to the table BH to BH or FH to FH drive to drive rally, you will lose more of these as the female, that is their strength. If you are able to stay in the point and change spins, they really hate that. They are used to fast fast drive to drive rally with the same spin and very fast tempo. You break that rythm up and you are on the way to sending her back to the bleachers to watch the rest of the tourney. My match was a bit of rache as she defeated me in my club's tourney a year ago without handicap I couldn't make the shots or use the tactics to deafeat her.

 

[Anders]

I think you should try using another setup.. A much slower blade, a STIGA Allround Classic for example with faster rubbers on it. Then you will learn how to add your own power and spin to your strokes instead of the racket doing all you work.

It will cause you some trouble in the beginning, but in the end you will earn a lot from this.

That is at least my opinion

 

[Rainer87]

To Der_Echte
Thank you very much Der_Echte, you reply is very detailed and that`s what I was looking for. This is alot of good information for me and I think I need make a list for my self, write everyything you wrote down point by point and then print it out and leave it in my club where I play. Then before every practise I will read it throgh, so I could remind myself what I must focus on.
Also I plan to start taking private lessons from player like she, so somebody will have eye on my technique and gives me good excercises.

To Anders
I am very happy with my setup and I am gone stick to it, it maybe faster than I need, but I like the feel of YEO and rubbers I use on it. I need to improve myself.

Before switching to YEO I was playing with Stiga OC WRB, FH rubber was the same as I use now and on BH I used Sriver. I still have Stiga blade, but I am not gone switch back to it. My YEO setup has given me more speed and because of that I have won matches against oponents to who I usually lost.

Others are welcome to critique as well ofcourse.

 

[azlan]

Hi Rainer, I am not going to critic you...it's too harsh I think.

Your BH, I think works very well when you hit it with intentions. Loads of spin, speed will come later, don't worry. You have to play with a lot more confidence. Sometimes you looked a bit tentative/unsure. Let go your shots, your swings (more racket head speed)..don't worry too much about them. The Ma Lin blade has great control, and I know that for a fact. Go for your shots, and don't hold back. Punish those bad, high, long balls that comes to you..and give a bit more respect to those good, low short balls

As for your serve, I think it's good enough for now. Just keep it low and a bit more spinny buddy. I feel as if you're still looking for your serves, keep training and practising buddy hehehe

As service returns go, you'll get better with more competitions and experience. Try this if you like...if you find a serve that's giving you sleepless nights/problems..learn the serve. It will help you understand the spin better and also the varieties.

 

[DingO]

I used to play in estonia, for Enn Halliks team U know him?

 

[Rainer87]

I used to play in estonia, for Enn Halliks team U know him?

Yes of course I know him as a person, but I dont know him personally. Some in Estonia are saying that Enn is Grand Old Man of Estonian table tennis . He even has published a book about table tennis already in 1987. He still competes sometimes in singles and in team events for his Pärnu Vin90 team. As much as I heard his is great man, I wish I could meet him one day as well.

 

[Der_Echte]

R87, looked at your first post again and see I didn't address your comment about not serving with much spin or racket speed. racket speed comes from good coordination and timing. You need a loose, relaxed grip. You need to use the whole body. Important thing is impact timing and acelleration of the racket. This cannot be done with bad grip or tight grip. You can modify the grip to be more penhold like by using thumb and first finger only with a grip that is not tight. This allows good use of the wrist which of course you must time along with the rest of the body. You start the swing slow and pick it up. Once you "get" it, then "it" becomes easier. You will alos learn how to contact the bottom of the ball to get the short serve when you want it.

Making super heavy spin is not what gets points against the top players, but you have to show the ability to make it, so that when you use the same motion and take away spin, you will get a good ball to attack.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I think you should try using another setup.. A much slower blade, a STIGA Allround Classic for example with faster rubbers on it. Then you will learn how to add your own power and spin to your strokes instead of the racket doing all you work.

It will cause you some trouble in the beginning, but in the end you will earn a lot from this.

That is at least my opinion

This is a great point Anders. I think that is really helpful info.

 

[Rainer87]

This is a great point Anders. I think that is really helpful info.

Hi Carl!
Like I wrote to Anders, I admit, that YEO might be little bit faster that I need. I also have Stiga OC WRB blade on what I could stick my rubbers, but I dont want to do that, I like the feeling YEO gives me. It is very different for Stiga OC WRB (speed, control, sound, etc). I dont see a point in taking them off and on all the time to see what works best for me, because this doesnt give me good enough comparison between two blades. If I would have two sets of my current rubbers, I would put them on Stiga blade and I would give it a go, then it would be easy to compere these different blades, but I dont see a point in spending 50 euros because of that. At the moment I dont want to mess up good feeling I have with YEO, this is first setup I find really works for me from the first touch.

 

[Rainer87]

R87, looked at your first post again and see I didn't address your comment about not serving with much spin or racket speed. racket speed comes from good coordination and timing. You need a loose, relaxed grip. You need to use the whole body. Important thing is impact timing and acelleration of the racket. This cannot be done with bad grip or tight grip. You can modify the grip to be more penhold like by using thumb and first finger only with a grip that is not tight. This allows good use of the wrist which of course you must time along with the rest of the body. You start the swing slow and pick it up. Once you "get" it, then "it" becomes easier. You will alos learn how to contact the bottom of the ball to get the short serve when you want it.

Making super heavy spin is not what gets points against the top players, but you have to show the ability to make it, so that when you use the same motion and take away spin, you will get a good ball to attack.

Hi Der_Echte!

About grip, I have modified it to what you discribed, I still havent got used to that, because I changed it only about two months ago, when I so video about it. I watched my videos again and paid extra attention to my service, I admit that I dont work with my body and hand swing enough, looks like I am using mostly my wrist. I need to start swinging with my hand little bit more and put more body in it as well.

You have been making very good points about flaws in my game, I am very greatfull for that.

I am making progress in my recovery (tonsil surgery) and I hope to go start practising in the beginning of the March.

 

[Rainer87]

Update from training. I will add video of my FH counter warmup. Shame that I dont have video from year ago to compare, because my technique has changes a lot. I am quite satisfied with my FH counter, but there is still long way to go, because in the game I usually dont controll my elbow so well, it usually moves away from my body during a shot and messes up my countershots. Any suggestions to improve?

 

[Matt Hetherington]

I think it's fine, the only thing I would really suggest is to keep on your toes a little more, your feet tended on the occasions when you did move, to lag a little behind your arm movement, or you were moving as you hit. You should always be planted in position stationary when you are hitting the ball, that means moving your feet FIRST I think technically it's very sound I don't see the elbow ordeal really stand out as that much of a problem for you, if you move your feet for the shot having elbow out from your body won't be a problem, that's usually the effect of reaching for a ball when out of position

 

[Rainer87]

I think it's fine, the only thing I would really suggest is to keep on your toes a little more, your feet tended on the occasions when you did move, to lag a little behind your arm movement, or you were moving as you hit. You should always be planted in position stationary when you are hitting the ball, that means moving your feet FIRST I think technically it's very sound I don't see the elbow ordeal really stand out as that much of a problem for you, if you move your feet for the shot having elbow out from your body won't be a problem, that's usually the effect of reaching for a ball when out of position

Thanks for your comments.
Footwork must be my and also others like me biggest weekness. I was trying to be more on my toes the other day, it is hard, my calf muscles were full after 1 minute, I quess I must be more on toes and also maybe buy myself a jump rope to train my calf muscles even more.