Which do you think is more dangerous?

[GregorTT425]

I've always been wondering if short pimples, long pimples or antispin rubbers are more dangerous?

By dangerous I mean deceptive (or anything that would make it hard playing against). I deliberately put the short pimples here, because though they can be used for attacking, they can also be used for defensive strokes. Long pimples and antispin rubbers are much more suited for a defensive style of play, but if you have the skill, you can also attack with them.

The question is, which one out of the 3 (2 if short-pips are excluded) is more tricky and deceptive? Another thing I'm wondering about, which is one is easier to use for defending?

If someone has the mood and time to do so, I'd be happy to learn about what are the differences between the long pimple and antispin?

 

[NDH]

I think it depends what level you are talking about here.

At the higher end up the ability level, short pimples that can be used in attack and defense are the most effective by some margin.

The problem with defensive rubbers (long pimples and anti spin), is that *most* players can play against them fairly comfortably, and there isn't a huge amount the defender can do in those situations.

If you are looking at the average ability to lower ability level, providing you can use the pimples/anti spin well, you'll mess up a huge number of people.

If you are more defensive minded.... Go long pimples.

If you are a bit of attacking and defending..... Go short pimples.

Anti spin is my least favorite of the 3 - I just find that style of play to be a bit dull.

Long pimples will be able to send huge amounts of spin back, whereas anti spin won't come close.

It might be slightly easier to deceive with anti spin though, as it looks like a normal inverted rubber.

But personally, I think you are more limited in what you can do compared with the pips out rubbers.

 

[GregorTT425]

Thanks for replying!

As for the levels, it doesn't really matter, because I'm curious about all kind of levels and abilities. Your answer is satisfactory for all my questions.

 

[GregorTT425]

I meant it doesn't matter which level we are talking about, because both the lower and higher tiers were mentioned in the first reply. I'm pretty sure that the higher you go, the less these alternative rubbers are effective, as mentioned previously.

Thanks.

 

[brokenball]

The "danger" comes from the player. The problem with LP and Anti is they take awhile to become consistent and use effectively. Also, as a beginning LP or Anti player you will probably lose a lot of points due to unforced errors.

I like to play with LP 0X and Anti sometimes. My practice partners no how to play against them. However, in a tournament you can win some easy matches because a lot of players don't practice against LP or Anti players and will lose the first two games before they catch on and it is probably too late.

SPs are easy to play with but leaning how to take balls off the bounce and hit at angles effectively takes some practice.

I don't see SP, Anti or LP as being deceptive or disruptive. It just takes a bit of experience playing against them to be able to compensate for the difference.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

To me, medium pimples.
medium pimples are not commonly used, so exposure to them is a lot more limited.

you get those medium pip blockers - which is like long pips, but the ball has strong spin, or you get those medium pip attackers where the ball sinks.

Medium pips are also more difficult to learn and control.

 

[thomas.pong]

A 1800 clubmate of mine uses MP (Nittaku DO Knuckle) on his BH and he gives me and some 2000-level players a lot of trouble as he can smash, chop and disruptively block with it well.

 

[WheatBeers]

Interesting discussion. I'm new to the sport and I'm currently using short pimples 2.2 mm on my forehand and long pimples no sponge on my backhand although I often swap sides and confuse both the opponents and myself. My casual observations are as follows. Sp rubbers are more versatile in that they allow wrist movements to produce all kids of spins. Lp rubbers are better for slices or blocking with the blade square to the table. My preference leans towards sp rubbers because of the aforementioned versatility. At the same time, lp rubber can also produce dangerous shots when used in an attacking manner in my lay hands. I can't describe it but it's like taking a slap shot when the ball is at the correct height and the other fellow has no reply. Long story short, my question concerns the thickness of the sponge in addition to the category of rubber be it normal, short or long pimples. Would a short pimple without sponge be a deadly weapon because it combines qualities of no sponge long pimples and the versatility of sponged short pimples? Drinks on me.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I've always been wondering if short pimples, long pimples or antispin rubbers are more dangerous?

By dangerous I mean deceptive (or anything that would make it hard playing against). I deliberately put the short pimples here, because though they can be used for attacking, they can also be used for defensive strokes. Long pimples and antispin rubbers are much more suited for a defensive style of play, but if you have the skill, you can also attack with them.

The question is, which one out of the 3 (2 if short-pips are excluded) is more tricky and deceptive? Another thing I'm wondering about, which is one is easier to use for defending?

If someone has the mood and time to do so, I'd be happy to learn about what are the differences between the long pimple and antispin?

For me it is the short-pimple.

Short pips in the hands of those who knows, is very scary. The ball comes back fast and with underspin. A looper's true nightmare. Usually underspin ball from inverted is slower and a looper has time to get into position to loop. A short-pips makes that underspin come back fast, hence it is a nightmare. You try to push it back and the ball pops up high for the short-pips to twiddle to the inverted for a smash / drive.

Long pips, once you know the rhythm, it is predictable and you have more time to adjust to it.

Anti - better to choose long-pips. I mimics the function of long-pips albeit lesser effect. So, it is neither here nor there situation.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I only recently found out some players don't know that you can "attack" with LP.
It is like a fast chop attack, where the ball can be redirected to an angle, fast when the ball is coming to them in under spin.

This kind of play is common for LP chop/blockers, blocking Top spin, chop back (attack or defense) with underspin.

For ones that don't or cant read spin, then the underspin and topspin balls coming from the LP is also a huge threat.

 

[igorponger]

Lp suck badly if textile underlayer is not there.

 

[RGo]

My vote goes to short pips but I think I only arrived at that conclusion since I started playing with them. Long pips and antis do a specific function very well but pretty much only that function, making them a bit predictable often (obviously there are always exceptions, as some players develop their own weird techniques). Short pips can be used in more varied ways and different rubbers behave pretty differently (that's something I only noticed once I tested a couple of them, but maybe that's the case too with the other types and I just don't have enough experience with them).

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

My vote goes to short pips but I think I only arrived at that conclusion since I started playing with them. Long pips and antis do a specific function very well but pretty much only that function, making them a bit predictable often (obviously there are always exceptions, as some players develop their own weird techniques). Short pips can be used in more varied ways and different rubbers behave pretty differently (that's something I only noticed once I tested a couple of them, but maybe that's the case too with the other types and I just don't have enough experience with them).

pretty much, if you are unfamiliar with any of them, then its hell all the way.
if you are familiar, then it is all about reading the spin - SP included.

offensive double inverted on spin and speed is still the pinnacle of today's table tennis.
many professional teams will bring in SP, LP, Anti players for example, but at best, they are only as good as a practice partner and would struggle to reach the top, once they get "figured out".

Certain SP attacker, LP chopper or LP chop blocker could excel to world elite level, but it is very few of them. LP Chopper is obviously the most, way more than say penholders.

 

[IB66]

To me, medium pimples.
medium pimples are not commonly used, so exposure to them is a lot more limited.

you get those medium pip blockers - which is like long pips, but the ball has strong spin, or you get those medium pip attackers where the ball sinks.

Medium pips are also more difficult to learn and control.

I know a reasonably good player that uses MP on BH, he played British League. He has used MP since he 1st started playing, so knows them very well.
Generally he doesn’t block that much, doesn’t chop that much, plays what looks like a pretty standard BH topspin stroke when playing against topspin, the ball comes back with some backspin on it.
He reckons that you have to play the BH topspin stroke with the tip of the blade.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I know a reasonably good player that uses MP on BH, he played British League. He has used MP since he 1st started playing, so knows them very well.
Generally he doesn’t block that much, doesn’t chop that much, plays what looks like a pretty standard BH topspin stroke when playing against topspin, the ball comes back with some backspin on it.
He reckons that you have to play the BH topspin stroke with the tip of the blade.

there is a MP attacker in the girls team where I sent the SA women's champ to train.
the WR196 player was struggling with the MP "top spin ball" that is actually have a top spin actual but with light underspin to it. She had never played MP in her 20 years career

Need a lifting action, just like lifting a underspin ball, but then the problem is, MP can also send a no spin over with a similar action and then your lifting action will lift too much and ball goes off.
it is really just about knowing how to read the spin and adapt accordingly and once you do that, the MP pips has very little threat.

 

[brokenball]

Is there a deceptive stroke or deceptive force that is applied to the ball? No, not once you understand how LPs and "frictionless" antis work. I have played my best in leagues with a Samsonov Alpha with Rakza 7 1.8 mm on the FH and 802 1.5mm on the BH. 802 1.5 mm doesn't generate of react to much spin and often returns a nearly dead ball on an block of a loop. The main thing is placement because the 802 1.5 mm is not fast either but blocks well so block or aim for pocket, angles, and short. It is also good to be able to do chop like pushes when hitting balls that are below net height because looping with 802 is not an option. You can chop with 802 1.5mm in a pinch.

I have played with a few MPs. 563, 563-1 and Palios version. I find them to be too much of a compromise. The big thing with MPs is staying in the point until you can use your FH to win a point.. Twiddling can help. MPs tend to kill or absorb spin so you end up returning a lot of nearly dead balls. You can chop. The only thing I liked about MPs is that my serve return percentage went up. Like I said, MPs seem to absorb spin.

A good person to watch on this forum is Andrea Ashi's video. He is a very good player. He uses his "frictionless" anti to stay in the point and his looping ability to score points.

 

[GregorTT425]

Is there a deceptive stroke or deceptive force that is applied to the ball? No, not once you understand how LPs and "frictionless" antis work. I have played my best in leagues with a Samsonov Alpha with Rakza 7 1.8 mm on the FH and 802 1.5mm on the BH. 802 1.5 mm doesn't generate of react to much spin and often returns a nearly dead ball on an block of a loop. The main thing is placement because the 802 1.5 mm is not fast either but blocks well so block or aim for pocket, angles, and short. It is also good to be able to do chop like pushes when hitting balls that are below net height because looping with 802 is not an option. You can chop with 802 1.5mm in a pinch.

I have played with a few MPs. 563, 563-1 and Palios version. I find them to be too much of a compromise. The big thing with MPs is staying in the point until you can use your FH to win a point.. Twiddling can help. MPs tend to kill or absorb spin so you end up returning a lot of nearly dead balls. You can chop. The only thing I liked about MPs is that my serve return percentage went up. Like I said, MPs seem to absorb spin.

A good person to watch on this forum is Andrea Ashi's video. He is a very good player. He uses his "frictionless" anti to stay in the point and his looping ability to score points.

Indeed I follow Andrea, great skills he has when it comes to handling the anti. Only difference that he uses a flanti, as you have mentioned, but I use a grippy anti. A little bit different world the two are.

Thanks for replying! Thanks for everyone who have replied so far!