Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Update from me going full Gozo (Viscaria+ D05 both wings). This setup really makes me enjoy attacking table tennis finally, I won all my games against my regular training partners yesterday. My FH loops are now much harder to block and counterloops are also landing very nicely now, and the dwell time is really good, I no longer feel like I'm struggling to loop past good defensive walls. As expected the short pushes became terrible with D05 on my FH (it was frequently a disaster just resulting in pop ups especially against serves that aren't underspin whereas with tacky Hurricanes this was a lot easier to control). Long fast pushes are fine though and easy to control. But I noticed that my newly learnt FH flicks and aggressive sideswipes actually really came to life with D05 - because it's less spin sensitive than Hurricanes and needs less power input making it more flexible and easy to disguise.

Even with blocking D05 is deadly because even putting the racket in the way with even a small impulse from the fingers results in a really fast ball back which jams the attacker bad.

I guess the philosophy when using this setup is to simply avoid pushing short and just go for the attack straight away and go for the aggressive rallies - don't get bogged down in pushing.

Remember folks,

Butterfly makes you H A P P Y!

Stiga makes you angry:

While Tibhar makes you estatic!

 

[NextLevel]

One of the better players in my club is forcing me out of the habit of trying to rally. He wants me to set up my serves to set the 3rd ball on my forehand, but I'm way too comfortable with trying to open with my BH lol.

I've been working on the 3rd ball attack. Some attacks are rather slow, some I can get the right angle on. Just gotta keep drilling.

Played someone older a few weeks ago that used Viscaria + Dignics 09c/Tenergy 05 and he was getting so much spin off of a small movement! One of my practice partners had Viscaria + D09c and he was just getting so much spin on his forehand loops and it would always find a way deep on the table.

Everyone develops a bit differently, I actually built my backhand before my forehand. Backhand serve. Backhand opener, backhand counter topspins. Most people who are properly coached develop the forehand first but as long as you are working on your games there is no single correct answer for an amateur (and to a lesser degree for pros). Forehands are usually stronger but there is no single way to introduce TT weapons, the main thing is to get opportunities to introduce your weapons. For me, serve backhand, get a push or popup that comes long or high. play and opening shot and then attack the 5th ball.

It is hard to practice serve and thirdball without serves and in some cases spinny strokes. Unless you are just putting away popups. The serves don't have to be great but in that case you have to mostly practice behind no spin serves. Developing fast and spin oriented swings makes your life easier for everything.

Finally don't attribute too much to the equipment. It does make a small difference but it has tradeoffs. Yhe more advanced stuff has a training demand, especially when you face players who play with a lot of spin. If you are range training everyday and learning to touch the ball with various degrees of relaxation to control speed and spin, you can go get it. But more realistically something less bouncy that requires more effort from you to produce spin leads to a better outcome long term as long as you learn to use good technique to produce spin because easy spin produces nonlinear equipment behavior that you might not find intuitive without training. But I suspect in a year or two with the right training, you will realize that much more of what you saw was a result of the training and not so much the equipment.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Update from me going full Gozo (Viscaria+ D05 both wings). .... < As expected the short pushes became terrible with D05 on my FH (it was frequently a disaster just resulting in pop ups especially against serves that aren't underspin whereas with tacky Hurricanes this was a lot easier to control).> .....

Learn the FH flick. With that you punish them back. Before this was acquired in my play-book, I too was handicapped. Not anymore when you UNLOCK this SKILL: FOREHAND FLICK

NB: My coach was feeding me short underspin ball to my FH corner. Those you see are all underspin balls. Now imagine how much easier it would be if those are no spin or minimal spin or topspin ball.

 

[blahness]

Learn the FH flick. With that you punish them back. Before this was acquired in my play-book, I too was handicapped. Not anymore when you UNLOCK this SKILL: FOREHAND FLICK
View attachment 25603
NB: My coach was feeding me short underspin ball to my FH corner. Those you see are all underspin balls. Now imagine how much easier it would be if those are no spin or minimal spin or topspin ball.

Seems like you didn't read the rest of my posts lol... I was doing plenty of FH flicks with D05.

But when a good opponent serves a short serve and moves a step from the table well prepared to loop strongly from both wings, a FH flick (especially topspin variants like the ones you're doing) is only gonna get destroyed by the subsequent loop simply because no matter how you try to increase quality it isn't gonna be as strong or stable as a BH chiquita. This is when the option of a short push even against sidetopspin serves is so devastating - it pulls the opponent back in who will almost be late to the ball and pop it up for an easy finish. And when they come closer to the table anticipating the short push you can then jam them hard with the flick or a long fast push. Evil but effective. This is the problem of not being able to push short against non underspin serves. Ppl can simply serve, take a step back and be prepared to loop everything back hard because they already know you can't keep it short. If you pop it up short, it's still trivial for them to simply move in swiftly and kill the opportunity ball. And that means that instead of gaining the initiative with the FH flick you're simply facing down quality loops and having to rely on the passive game (which can still work but it's not ideal)

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Seems like you didn't read the rest of my posts lol... I was doing plenty of FH flicks with D05.

But when a good opponent serves a short serve and moves a step from the table well prepared to loop strongly from both wings, a FH flick (especially topspin variants like the ones you're doing) is only gonna get destroyed by the subsequent loop simply because no matter how you try to increase quality it isn't gonna be as strong or stable as a BH chiquita. This is when the option of a short push even against sidetopspin serves is so devastating - it pulls the opponent back in who will almost be late to the ball and pop it up for an easy finish. And when they come closer to the table anticipating the short push you can then jam them hard with the flick or a long fast push. Evil but effective. This is the problem of not being able to push short against non underspin serves. Ppl can simply serve, take a step back and be prepared to loop everything back hard because they already know you can't keep it short. If you pop it up short, it's still trivial for them to simply move in swiftly and kill the opportunity ball. And that means that instead of gaining the initiative with the FH flick you're simply facing down quality loops and having to rely on the passive game (which can still work but it's not ideal)

OK then, it works for me when I FH flick coz my opponent at my level tend to get surprised. Oh well, maybe my level is not that high so that this option still works. I'll ENJOY it while it last...

 

[blahness]

OK then, it works for me when I FH flick coz my opponent at my level tend to get surprised. Oh well, maybe my level is not that high so that this option still works. I'll ENJOY it while it last...

FH flicks are still good, but you need to improve its effectiveness as you go up in level. Personally I find the standard topspin variant to be close to giving up initiative to the opponent unless you're damn explosive in power. There's more advanced variants like having both the fade and hook sidespin variants, the fast flat flick and even flicking short using the windshield wiper movement. I need to start really training these more now that I have bouncy D05 on my FH since short pushing is way less effective with it. I'll probably reserve short pushing against underspin serves from now on.

One thing on your video, I think you should rotate your body into the ball when you flick - this would make the flick a lot more powerful and dangerous. Using the hand to flick is tiring and also inconsistent imo. Against underspin imo the movement at roughly 35 secs -40 secs seems to work the best for me. Kind of swiping the ball slightly on the bottom of the ball from right to left with a bit of upwards movement.

 

[JJ Ng]

FH flicks are still good, but you need to improve its effectiveness as you go up in level. Personally I find the standard topspin variant to be close to giving up initiative to the opponent unless you're damn explosive in power. There's more advanced variants like having both the fade and hook sidespin variants, the fast flat flick and even flicking short using the windshield wiper movement. I need to start really training these more now that I have bouncy D05 on my FH since short pushing is way less effective with it. I'll probably reserve short pushing against underspin serves from now on.

One thing on your video, I think you should rotate your body into the ball when you flick - this would make the flick a lot more powerful and dangerous. Using the hand to flick is tiring and also inconsistent imo. Against underspin imo the movement at roughly 35 secs -40 secs seems to work the best for me. Kind of swiping the ball slightly on the bottom of the ball from right to left with a bit of upwards movement.

Maybe you need to go in backhand flick, i.e. Lin-Yun-ju style?

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

FH flicks are still good, but you need to improve its effectiveness as you go up in level. Personally I find the standard topspin variant to be close to giving up initiative to the opponent unless you're damn explosive in power. There's more advanced variants like having both the fade and hook sidespin variants, the fast flat flick and even flicking short using the windshield wiper movement. I need to start really training these more now that I have bouncy D05 on my FH since short pushing is way less effective with it. I'll probably reserve short pushing against underspin serves from now on.

One thing on your video, I think you should rotate your body into the ball when you flick - this would make the flick a lot more powerful and dangerous. Using the hand to flick is tiring and also inconsistent imo. Against underspin imo the movement at roughly 35 secs -40 secs seems to work the best for me. Kind of swiping the ball slightly on the bottom of the ball from right to left with a bit of upwards movement.

I've just learn this FH flikerty thingy and happily using it in my game to great success. Mine is, for all intents and purpose still very basic. I am pretty sure given a few months time, my FH flick will surely evolved and may not look like this anymore.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Timo Boll used to say the same thing about Chinese tacky rubbers. That's why they build D09c. Even with D09c, he still doesn't beat Ma Long and Fan Zhendong.

So how do you know it isn't your stiff blade? Or your relatively less spinny shots? Or your less precise timing? Or your blunt contact points? How do you know it is the D09c?

BTW, looking at the drill, all of GM's shots were forward and over the ball, yes, D09c makes them easier to execute, but they are just good technique with first contact to trap the spin and then play forward over the ball. If you are doing something different, record yourself and share it here.

This is my most recent FH to FH drill ( recorded about a month ago ).

Critique away...

 

[blahness]

Maybe you need to go in backhand flick, i.e. Lin-Yun-ju style?

I tried that, it works as a surprise but I always get destroyed by fast long serves once I try to do that regularly. I simply am not fast enough in anticipation to be able to do BH chiquita from FH short while handling fast long serves with ease.

If anyone has any tips on dealing with this issue I'm all ears I would love to be able to use BH chiquita for FH short balls (especially the reverse pendulum serves to the FH short which have been my nightmare).

 

[JJ Ng]

I tried that, it works as a surprise but I always get destroyed by fast long serves once I try to do that regularly. I simply am not fast enough in anticipation to be able to do BH chiquita from FH short while handling fast long serves with ease.

If anyone has any tips on dealing with this issue I'm all ears I would love to be able to use BH chiquita for FH short balls (especially the reverse pendulum serves to the FH short which have been my nightmare).

No easy solution. I think you need to mix up short return, forehand flip and BH chiquita. If the opponent is serving you forehand short consistently with side spin or top spin because he is really good at rallying after that, then you have to vary how you return the serve and vary the placement on his side of the table. It is easier to say than done of course. Lol, I cannot even do that myself. I definitely do not have a BH chiquita shot.

 

[NextLevel]

This is my most recent FH to FH drill ( recorded about a month ago ).
View attachment 25604
Critique away...

You're actually taking the ball later (further from the table) and with more power than GM. But GM wasn't going for power, he was going for consistency and doing a drill that has more match situation application with a sequence of strokes ro construct a point. I guess maybe for you, the thing is that you feel GM should bend his knees or stuff like that but swing planes are individual things and while you are getting good power, your spin is unlikely to be more than GM and the demands you have placed on yourself with the power production will challenge your use of this stroke under match conditions, since you need to move to the ball and set your feet to get this kind of power and your movement and game reading is not being challenged here.

I guess I would like to see you play this stroke in a match at some point. Or as part of a point routine. But all that said, you haven't been playing that long and in that context this is an impressive stroke. I just wouldn't be surprised if it took another year or more for this to show up in matches because even the playing distance requires a quality of incoming ball to get into that isnt seen in most of the matches you post. That said you do olay doubles and that might give you opportunities to play this earlier.

 

[blahness]

No easy solution. I think you need to mix up short return, forehand flip and BH chiquita. If the opponent is serving you forehand short consistently with side spin or top spin because he is really good at rallying after that, then you have to vary how you return the serve and vary the placement on his side of the table. It is easier to say than done of course. Lol, I cannot even do that myself. I definitely do not have a BH chiquita shot.

Yep. I guess the problem with D05 is that the short push against nonunderspin serves is not as easy as compared to a tacky Hurricane or even 09c. It is the biggest weakness of the rubber.

To use BH chiquita against FH short balls successfully, the right leg actually often needs to go beyond the right line of the table. It's not an easy place to reach. But then I haven't really trained it much - maybe if I did it I could do it with a little more ease lol.

I have bigger issues to fry with my footwork at the moment particularly lunging correctly towards my FH side to loop wide FH balls.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

You're actually taking the ball later (further from the table) and with more power than GM. But GM wasn't going for power, he was going for consistency and doing a drill that has more match situation application with a sequence of strokes ro construct a point. I guess maybe for you, the thing is that you feel GM should bend his knees or stuff like that but swing planes are individual things and while you are getting good power, your spin is unlikely to be more than GM and the demands you have placed on yourself with the power production will challenge your use of this stroke under match conditions, since you need to move to the ball and set your feet to get this kind of power and your movement and game reading is not being challenged here.

I guess I would like to see you play this stroke in a match at some point. Or as part of a point routine. But all that said, you haven't been playing that long and in that context this is an impressive stroke. I just wouldn't be surprised if it took another year or more for this to show up in matches because even the playing distance requires a quality of incoming ball to get into that isnt seen in most of the matches you post. That said you do olay doubles and that might give you opportunities to play this earlier.

1. Coz' I have the FULL GOZO SET-UP! Yesterday I was messing with a club-mate's all wood blade with Tenergy 19 on it and although it is fast, it does not produce the 500 lbs / sq inch force that FULL GOZO does and is expected from my coach. One needs a 200g above set-up for the FULL GOZO experience. Yesterday I learnt that fast and power may not be used interchangeably.

2. Your praise made me shed tears of joy.

3. A while ago I asked about the hitting the wood sound. Have a listen to my above video, is this the sound of bottoming out?

 

[blahness]

This is my most recent FH to FH drill ( recorded about a month ago ).
View attachment 25604
Critique away...

I actually kinda like Gozo's structure because he swings compact with good elbow position, and he loads up on his right leg to power the shot, and importantly he actually moves his right leg to "find" the ball and recovers after looping. The biggest issue really is that Gozo doesn't finish the weight transfer. He pushes off nicely with his right foot, but the weight never gets transferred to the left foot. If Gozo finishes his stroke with his upper body leaning forward over his left leg, he will complete the weight transfer and more importantly unlock a very important mechanism of using the centre of gravity to control the arc of his loop, and the quality of his loop will go to the next level.

One way to find the weight transfer feeling is by lifting the right foot after the loop - this will force the weight to go completely to the left foot. A bit like the sumo exercise you shared previously.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

This TT center is in my capital and also the home / HQ of my National Team.

Anyway, look at the Jr's FH topspin. His blade angle is rather closed yes? His knees are also quite bent and he plays with a low stance. All in all, the same points that I had been saying. Maybe this is how the coaches in my locality teaches FH topspin.

 

[SleepyMaster]

You're actually taking the ball later (further from the table) and with more power than GM. But GM wasn't going for power, he was going for consistency and doing a drill that has more match situation application with a sequence of strokes ro construct a point. I guess maybe for you, the thing is that you feel GM should bend his knees or stuff like that but swing planes are individual things and while you are getting good power, your spin is unlikely to be more than GM and the demands you have placed on yourself with the power production will challenge your use of this stroke under match conditions, since you need to move to the ball and set your feet to get this kind of power and your movement and game reading is not being challenged here.

I guess I would like to see you play this stroke in a match at some point. Or as part of a point routine. But all that said, you haven't been playing that long and in that context this is an impressive stroke. I just wouldn't be surprised if it took another year or more for this to show up in matches because even the playing distance requires a quality of incoming ball to get into that isnt seen in most of the matches you post. That said you do olay doubles and that might give you opportunities to play this earlier.

I’m not really trying to put a lot of power on my shots, rather trying to controlled them and brush good.

There is a different drills, for power training.
For example: first spiny loop, after one/two/three with power. Depending on a situation.

Examples:

And even when the goal is to put more power, the main goal is to hit the table with power plus stability and spin

 

[SleepyMaster]

This is my most recent FH to FH drill ( recorded about a month ago ).
View attachment 25604
Critique away...

Good power in your forehand, but really interesting, how it incorporates in a game. And how you able to return really spiny one, that pops out of the table if not brushed correctly

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Good power in your forehand, but really interesting, how it incorporates in a game. And how you able to return really spiny one, that pops out of the table if not brushed correctly

like these;

 

[SleepyMaster]

like these;
View attachment 25611
View attachment 25613

Lol there were no spiny one, just slow and week backhand topspin - in the first video. And in the second video no one doing topspin at you at all.

I’m talking about really spiny, fast and powerful forehand. If you not really good at brushing, you will lose most of those balls.
There is a level to spin 😉