6 Myths of Table Tennis

[NextLevel]

Thought this video about beliefs that create mindset that prevent you from improving would be helpful. I don't think Dubina is so much absolutely right as challenging fixed mindset.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The video is probably accurate for certain level players and probably inaccurate for certain level players.

The Chinese and Japanese are using all those that he said isn't necessary.
I believe if you take that away from them, they will not be the same

 

[NextLevel]

The video is probably accurate for certain level players and probably inaccurate for certain level players.

The Chinese and Japanese are using all those that he said isn't necessary.
I believe if you take that away from them, they will not be the same

I think it is accurate for everyone. Werner Schlager echoed many of the things Dubina said in a recent interview. I think the real key is context and application ultimately with the goal of developing a player. You can do what he says are myths and develop a player - I think Dubina would agree with that. But where he disagrees is when people say that without those things, they cannot improve. Even in limited envirimnemntrs you can find ways to get better.

 

[Lazer]

Just don’t forget to have fun 🤩 too…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think it is accurate for everyone. Werner Schlager echoed many of the things Dubina said in a recent interview. I think the real key is context and application ultimately with the goal of developing a player. You can do what he says are myths and develop a player - I think Dubina would agree with that. But where he disagrees is when people say that without those things, they cannot improve. Even in limited envirimnemntrs you can find ways to get better.

its no myth about stronger players or variety of players though.
if you have a bunch of 1500 players, and needing to get to 2500, you would need stronger players and a variety of players.

We are working on a US kid (he will take part in next week's US National).
He was maybe 1300 or 1400 when I met him
Last year's national, he is hovering around 1600~1700.
Interesting to see how he plays this year.

He has a lot of 2000+ players (near 20) as practice partners, highest is maybe 2450.
Mix of SP, MP, LP chop blocker, LP chopper, left and right handed etc.
The coach is maybe former 3000
A very solid support group.

If you take this away from him and put in with another 1600 practice partner only and no variety inside the past 12 months.
I would say, his growth will be a lot slower.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Lin Yunju obviously can't find much practice partners higher than him
but he finds a variety of them.
CNT players has a variety of partners, and not just that, a variety of clones too.

Women players are easier, as they can hire male training partners that are higher speed and power.
So women's have stronger partners and a variety too.

 

[NextLevel]

its no myth about stronger players or variety of players though.
if you have a bunch of 1500 players, and needing to get to 2500, you would need stronger players and a variety of players.

We are working on a US kid (he will take part in next week's US National).
He was maybe 1300 or 1400 when I met him
Last year's national, he is hovering around 1600~1700.
Interesting to see how he plays this year.

He has a lot of 2000+ players (near 20) as practice partners, highest is maybe 2450.
Mix of SP, MP, LP chop blocker, LP chopper, left and right handed etc.
The coach is maybe former 3000
A very solid support group.

If you take this away from him and put in with another 1600 practice partner only and no variety inside the past 12 months.
I would say, his growth will be a lot slower.

Of course, the way you have framed it, yes. But a couple of things - no one is going to get from 1500 to 2500 in a short period of time. So the question is what do you do to get better? If you are going to get to 2000 from 1500, do you need 1800 players everyday in practice? Or if you have 1500 players with one of them having a 2000 forehand if in position and another having 2000 serves but no footwork or attack and another having 2000 push etc. Sometimes even 1400 level players can feed 2000 level multiball - rare but it happens.

As Schlager said, many people wanted him to move to Germany to play, but there was an larger league across a few countries including some of the Czech players that he could play in sometimes and he just maximized his drills and practice partners, his main point being that you can be the best player in your area and still improve training with your practice partners. Mizutani would disagree a bit and say that people should travel just to get used to playing when you can't control the circumstances. But the main point is that you need to look for ways to develop and improve, of course some things make it easier and some things make it harder. And maybe some things make it impossible. But if you decide it is impossible already, you have already closed the discussion.

So the point is not to disagree that right training environment is very helpful and can make things much easier, but to make sure that people don't close themselves off to what is possible with what is around them already. Some people travel the world in search of diamonds that are already in their backyard.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Of course, the way you have framed it, yes. But a couple of things - no one is going to get from 1500 to 2500 in a short period of time. So the question is what do you do to get better? If you are going to get to 2000 from 1500, do you need 1800 players everyday in practice? Or if you have 1500 players with one of them having a 2000 forehand if in position and another having 2000 serves but no footwork or attack and another having 2000 push etc. Sometimes even 1400 level players can feed 2000 level multiball - rare but it happens.

As Schlager said, many people wanted him to move to Germany to play, but there was an larger league across a few countries including some of the Czech players that he could play in sometimes and he just maximized his drills and practice partners, his main point being that you can be the best player in your area and still improve training with your practice partners. Mizutani would disagree a bit and say that people should travel just to get used to playing when you can't control the circumstances. But the main point is that you need to look for ways to develop and improve, of course some things make it easier and some things make it harder. And maybe some things make it impossible. But if you decide it is impossible already, you have already closed the discussion.

So the point is not to disagree that right training environment is very helpful and can make things much easier, but to make sure that people don't close themselves off to what is possible with what is around them already. Some people travel the world in search of diamonds that are already in their backyard.

I hear you.
that is why I say what I said in my first post

For some, the video is fine.
Otherwise, why is Kanak "supposed" to be half way around the world?
Sally Moyland for example, miss Taiwan's high level + variety.
In the morning at HITTA, there is only 3 people in that hall. Mom, Sally and coach/practice partner.

I think for most, the higher you go, the more you would need.
If you are a lower level, something is better than nothing.
I do feel, the video is based on a level 2600 teaching a 1500~2000 range on how to be better.
I doubt Lily or Kanak will follow those 6 to become the next level.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Just don’t forget to have fun 🤩 too…

Cheers
L-zr

Fun is actually so important.
But I think Fun might not be the case when you become a Pro
I mean, you are far too deep to do anything else, so can only continue and make ends meet with it.
They not playing to have fun, they playing to live and put bread on the table.
The money is so little, it is difficult to have fun.

I think the west has more fun than east.
Its summer holiday now, every kid is on holiday.
the table tennis team are training 90% of the holiday time.

I still remember when I first met Feng Yi Hsin and family and the family of 4 took me out for dinner.
The family photo always have the parents and the younger brother. In Korea, In Japan, in where ever, holiday.
Feng is stuck in mutliball drills

 

[Lazer]

Fun is ALWAYS the most important part. When You stop having fun the game goes down the tubes. There are so many other ways to put food on the table.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[NextLevel]

Fun is ALWAYS the most important part. When You stop having fun the game goes down the tubes. There are so many other ways to put food on the table.

Cheers
L-zr

Welcome to life.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Fun is ALWAYS the most important part. When You stop having fun the game goes down the tubes. There are so many other ways to put food on the table.

Cheers
L-zr

For many, not quite so hey
If not playing, then it is coaching

 

[Lazer]

For many, not quite so hey
If not playing, then it is coaching

Your first post was about how to improve as a player…

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Your first post was about how to improve as a player…

yes, and my reply was when you said there was other ways to put food on the table.

a lot of pros are committed way too deep.
the ones that breakthrough, could continue to play and get paid for doing so (which isn't a lot of them in the world).
the ones that didn't, are stuck in trying to get better or start shifting to coaching.
due to little to no other qualifications, coaching role income would be much better than something else.

But then I was addressing the fun factor, which is probably easier for amateurs as it is for pros.
Let me explain, if you retire from TT as say 25 or 30, and start coaching.
Do you coach till 40 or 50 or 60 years old?
You started TT at age 6 or 8. So it is 80 or 90% of your life, and I'm talking full time life, not some social player's 50 years of TT.

I know a lot of players, probably already lost the so called fun factor, and these are still juniors or players in the early 20s. They are already stuck too deep and only have 1 direction, and it is to excel.
The ones that half way in, could still pivot. But it requires great courage to pivot.

Not many people have committed so long into 1 thing (irrespective of anything). So the fun aspect does wear out.
Again, this is talking about putting food on the table, so is that more important, or is fun?

Ie, Kanak and Lily, how can they put food on the table?

The Kiwi no1 who had a good game against LJK at the WTTC2023. is only 21 or 22 years old. Trains full time, and started to coach part time to keep bills being paid. Not idea, but it is what it is.

 

[JJ Ng]

yes, and my reply was when you said there was other ways to put food on the table.

a lot of pros are committed way too deep.
the ones that breakthrough, could continue to play and get paid for doing so (which isn't a lot of them in the world).
the ones that didn't, are stuck in trying to get better or start shifting to coaching.
due to little to no other qualifications, coaching role income would be much better than something else.

But then I was addressing the fun factor, which is probably easier for amateurs as it is for pros.
Let me explain, if you retire from TT as say 25 or 30, and start coaching.
Do you coach till 40 or 50 or 60 years old?
You started TT at age 6 or 8. So it is 80 or 90% of your life, and I'm talking full time life, not some social player's 50 years of TT.

I know a lot of players, probably already lost the so called fun factor, and these are still juniors or players in the early 20s. They are already stuck too deep and only have 1 direction, and it is to excel.
The ones that half way in, could still pivot. But it requires great courage to pivot.

Not many people have committed so long into 1 thing (irrespective of anything). So the fun aspect does wear out.
Again, this is talking about putting food on the table, so is that more important, or is fun?

Ie, Kanak and Lily, how can they put food on the table?

The Kiwi no1 who had a good game against LJK at the WTTC2023. is only 21 or 22 years old. Trains full time, and started to coach part time to keep bills being paid. Not idea, but it is what it is.

Agree. And coaching TT really does not make you that money in N. America. I think the only way to make money in TT (if you are not Ma Long or Fan Zhendong) is through YouTube and social media.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Agree. And coaching TT really does not make you that money in N. America. I think the only way to make money in TT (if you are not Ma Long or Fan Zhendong) is through YouTube and social media.

Taiwan is one of few (very few) countries where coaching is a good income.
It is not because TT is high, it is other incomes are way too low (same job - title, compared to 20 years ago, is the exact same amount, without taking into inflation, so Taiwans salary is very low).

But I know a lot of coaches, at 45 years old, they don't feel they can continue till 55 and already looking at opportunity to pivot before it is too late.
the 55 one feels his body is damaged from too much TT and worried how he can survive till 65.

If you a boss, maybe you can continue for a long time. But if you are hands on active training partner, coach, etc. that does take a toll on your body.
You could earn 2 to 3 times more than the avg office worker, but you need to work afternoon/evenings and weekends. Not really ideal for "family" life.

 

[JJ Ng]

Taiwan is one of few (very few) countries where coaching is a good income.
It is not because TT is high, it is other incomes are way too low (same job - title, compared to 20 years ago, is the exact same amount, without taking into inflation, so Taiwans salary is very low).

But I know a lot of coaches, at 45 years old, they don't feel they can continue till 55 and already looking at opportunity to pivot before it is too late.
the 55 one feels his body is damaged from too much TT and worried how he can survive till 65.

If you a boss, maybe you can continue for a long time. But if you are hands on active training partner, coach, etc. that does take a toll on your body.
You could earn 2 to 3 times more than the avg office worker, but you need to work afternoon/evenings and weekends. Not really ideal for "family" life.

Yes agree. And food in Taiwan is cheap and that's who some people can make low salary and still survive.

I see coaches bending down to feed top spin multi-balls to their students. That must be very very taxing on their bodies!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Yes agree. And food in Taiwan is cheap and that's who some people can make low salary and still survive.

I see coaches bending down to feed top spin multi-balls to their students. That must be very very taxing on their bodies!

very taxing.
The senior coach in our team, looks after two choppers and 2 other players.
you think it is taxing?

Wait till you need to feed two choppers.
I did it a few times.... too tiring and i'm younger than him.
The head coach can still feed, but not for long time. It is indeed taxing on the body (he is 65)

They have multiball 3 to 4 time a week (1.5 hours) during normal school week.
next week, Summer training starts, it will be 2 hours mutliball, 6 times a week.

 

[Lazer]

No. Fun is just a good byproduct.
You either compete (I used to) or play just for exercise (like now) .
Losing is ok but claiming to play only to have fun is an excuse to explain away losing.


Bad loser

I can see you have no fun in your life…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[JJ Ng]

I can see you have no fun in your life…

Cheers
L-zr

I agree with you. Outside of being a pro, everyone should only play table tennis for fun. I hate going to the gym. I don't see how running on a treadmill or pumping some weight is fun. It is sooooo boring.

Give me a ball and I will have fun with it. Lacrosse, basketball, volleyball or just anything.

Therefore to me table tennis is fun. And it is important to exercise and have fun at the same time. Do I like losing? No. But if you cannot brush off losing, then you will just be a miserable human being. Who wins all the time? No one.