Experience with some other Loki rubbers - Arthur China, GTX Pro (inc)

[TensorBackhand]

you might as well then send me the National version so i can have a go with it 😁

yeah if you were nearby, you could have a go with it. I'm sure there are guys around you who have it. It's really not that different or anything.

 

[TensorBackhand]

From what I've heard, Rxton 7 will be Loki's H3 37 deg, Rxton 9 will be Loki's H3 National blue sponge.

Really? Matt said Rxton 7 would be like D09c, I think he heard directly from the Loki agent.

But I guess it makes sense for Loki to have a H3 37 as well.

 

[TensorBackhand]

you have #22 commercial?

Did you read that I wrote I have #22 commercial in my post?

Don't be so childish all the time. Seriously, it's just so pathetic. My opinion is that the commercial orange sponge H3 is not very different from the Blue sponge H3 of National. Honestly, I like all 3 of them. I just don't find them to be very different. I think a lot of people have the same view. I cited my reasons. #1, based on my own testing. #2, based on TT11's review where they admit that they cannot distinguish between commercial, provincial, and national .

Some people may have a different view, and that is fine as well. Forum readers want to hear the different views and experiences, and then they can make their own conclusions. If you have a different view, please provide your actual reasons.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Also just to clarify, I'm not saying there is zero difference between H3 commercial and H3 blue sponge. Actually, H3 blue sponge is quite dear to my heart. The 2nd best match of my life, I beat a 2200 Japanese coach who works at a TT school in Osaka and I was using H3 blue sponge provincial. I remember it wasn't super fast or anything, but it provided a great feeling of dwell time and control. It felt like I could spin as hard as I want and the rubber will control the ball well. After I barely won the match 4-3, he commented that my FH loop was really effective against him.

So the difference to me is blue sponge gives slightly more dwell time and sense of control. For a casual player like myself, is it worth 3 or 4 times the price? No I don't think so. But some players may demand that extra quality.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Well we cant know until we try them. My agent said it comes pre filled with oil, so its factory boosted and with a layer of glue like H3Neo. Here is some more info if you want to take the datasheet of the brand into consideration (notice Rxton 7 is there too)
topsheet Only in black "Sticky 3" like arthur china.
Hardness 40.5 sponge color blue
Sponge type "L03" So its some kind of Dense sponge "LOXA" like rxton 5 but different number
Speed control spin 12 ("max")

curious about Rxton 7:
Sticky 3
Sponge k03 "same"as rxton pink & blue (note that they said that europe & diamond uses that K03 sponge, but on the old list i shared it said N01 🤷‍♂️)
40° hardness
Speed 11.5 control 12 spin 12
View attachment 26512

Hey Matt, I often lookup this table you posted. It seems quite detailed and everything, but I'm not 100% sure and still have some doubts.

GTX and T3 both are listed as having the same N01 sponge, but I find that they react very differently to booster. GTX has a huge reaction, T3 not so much.

Rxton 7 supposedly has the same sponge as Rxton 3 pink? That seems kinda underwhelming if its true.

 

[JJ Ng]

Also just to clarify, I'm not saying there is zero difference between H3 commercial and H3 blue sponge. Actually, H3 blue sponge is quite dear to my heart. The 2nd best match of my life, I beat a 2200 Japanese coach who works at a TT school in Osaka and I was using H3 blue sponge provincial. I remember it wasn't super fast or anything, but it provided a great feeling of dwell time and control. It felt like I could spin as hard as I want and the rubber will control the ball well. After I barely won the match 4-3, he commented that my FH loop was really effective against him.

So the difference to me is blue sponge gives slightly more dwell time and sense of control. For a casual player like myself, is it worth 3 or 4 times the price? No I don't think so. But some players may demand that extra quality.

I am losing track of this thread. If LAC quality control is not good, why would you pay $20+ a sheet and throw one out of two sheets away after a week or so. I rather save the money and buy Dignics 09c with it. Ok, just kidding about buying Dignics 09c.

As for H3 commercial vs provincial vs national, yeah, I agree with you. I believe in TT11's review. They said maybe blue sponge is a bit better.

I am just busy EJ'ing so I have to EJ with the commerical orange sponge. I don't feel that I am losing out.

Maybe when I stop EJ'ing, I will buy one provincial blue sponge and see how that goes.

Sanwei Target National and Battle II provincial both have blue sponge. I have both of them. They cost about $25 to $30 a sheet. I like them. I can see how people feel that they can buy blue sponge and skip the whole boosting thing. But boosting does not take that much of my time. And I am sure DHS' blue sponge is different.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Did you read that I wrote I have #22 commercial in my post?

Don't be so childish all the time. Seriously,

one question burst your bubble?

My opinion is that the commercial orange sponge H3 is not very different from the Blue sponge H3 of National.

I guess this is the conclusion, haha
Can't have every tom, dick and harry doing equipment reviews

 

[TensorBackhand]

one question burst your bubble?


I guess this is the conclusion, haha
Can't have every tom, dick and harry doing equipment reviews

No, just stop. You know what you were trying to do.

Just stop.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

And I am sure DHS' blue sponge is different.

you can pin this for sure

 

[Lazer]

No, just stop. You know what you were trying to do.

Just stop.

You know what, I believe TT11 as well. They said the difference is selection. This makes perfect sense. It’s not sensible to manufacture a different version of so many product but to select based on perceived quality makes perfect sense. This could be a time consuming task. Thus the higher price.

So when buying a commercial version You may or may not end up with National quality. It’s all by chance.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[latej]

Can't have every tom, dick and harry doing equipment reviews

Why not?

As long as he is aware of his own level and doesn't try to present it as THE truth, anyone should be welcome.

Tony, no one questions your authority. And your posts are extremely valuable. Really mean it. But at the same time I want to say, we already have one bully in TTD who thinks he is better than others.

 

[TensorBackhand]

You know what, I believe TT11 as well. They said the difference is selection. This makes perfect sense. It’s not sensible to manufacture a different version of so many product but to select based on perceived quality makes perfect sense. This could be a time consuming task. Thus the higher price.

So when buying a commercial version You may or may not end up with National quality. It’s all by chance.

Cheers
L-zr

Well, I think there are two things at play. First, my understanding is that the orange and blue sponge are slightly different formulas. So they have different model numbers. However, in the spectrum of rubbers, these 2 models are extremely close in function.

Second, is the point about qc and selection. Provincial blue and national blue have the same sponge formula, but national may be selected according to stricter standard. So i think you are right, a provincial might be the same as national 90% of the time, but a few times it will be slightly different.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Why not?

As long as he is aware of his own level and doesn't try to present it as THE truth, anyone should be welcome.

Tony, no one questions your authority. And your posts are extremely valuable. Really mean it. But at the same time I want to say, we already have one bully in TTD who thinks he is better than others.

I think this is the 3rd or 4th time I see TB or MZ saying that these are the same.
if he didn't call me childish, I won't link him out loud with tom dick and harry

My opinion is that the commercial orange sponge H3 is not very different from the Blue sponge H3 of National.

His opinion is just too funny.

 

[JJ Ng]

Well, I think there are two things at play. First, my understanding is that the orange and blue sponge are slightly different formulas. So they have different model numbers. However, in the spectrum of rubbers, these 2 models are extremely close in function.

Second, is the point about qc and selection. Provincial blue and national blue have the same sponge formula, but national may be selected according to stricter standard. So i think you are right, a provincial might be the same as national 90% of the time, but a few times it will be slightly different.

Serious question. How does DHS decide what is worthy of Provincial vs National level of sponge? How do you hand pick those things? Or do you pull out an instrument of some sort.

I heard the rumor that for Butterfly, the sponsored player get sheets derived from middle of a huge sheet while the edge sheets were cut and sold commercially. I don't know if that's true or not.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I think this is the 3rd or 4th time I see TB or MZ saying that these are the same.
if he didn't call me childish, I won't link him out loud with tom dick and harry


His opinion is just too funny.

Well its not just my opinion, its TT11's opinion as well. So tell me what they did wrong.

Im still waiting for you to actually provide evidence of your opinion instead of just trying to belittle others. Can you provide any basis of your opinion? Or is it just hot air

 

[TensorBackhand]

Serious question. How does DHS decide what is worthy of Provincial vs National level of sponge? How do you hand pick those things? Or do you pull out an instrument of some sort.

I heard the rumor that for Butterfly, the sponsored player get sheets derived from middle of a huge sheet while the edge sheets were cut and sold commercially. I don't know if that's true or not.

I have no idea, but maybe they test each sheet for hardness and density or something.

 

[Lazer]

Serious question. How does DHS decide what is worthy of Provincial vs National level of sponge? How do you hand pick those things? Or do you pull out an instrument of some sort.

I heard the rumor that for Butterfly, the sponsored player get sheets derived from middle of a huge sheet while the edge sheets were cut and sold commercially. I don't know if that's true or not.

Sample the huge sheets for hardness and quality, by hand and machine, it’s done for all kinds of products. Some sheets may go straight to commercial untested. Who knows but it make sense.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[hclnnkhg]

Serious question. How does DHS decide what is worthy of Provincial vs National level of sponge? How do you hand pick those things? Or do you pull out an instrument of some sort.

I heard the rumor that for Butterfly, the sponsored player get sheets derived from middle of a huge sheet while the edge sheets were cut and sold commercially. I don't know if that's true or not.

if national is indeed provincial with better QC, then it is very likely that the weight of the rubber is on the metric. Anyone has a dozen provincial and national H3 sitting around for some measurements?

 

[Lazer]

Serious question. How does DHS decide what is worthy of Provincial vs National level of sponge? How do you hand pick those things? Or do you pull out an instrument of some sort.

I heard the rumor that for Butterfly, the sponsored player get sheets derived from middle of a huge sheet while the edge sheets were cut and sold commercially. I don't know if that's true or not.

Actually about the mid sheet selection, I think I saw that in a production video, that could be the entire secret…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[TensorBackhand]

Anyway, the whole point of this trail was just to say I'm less excited about Rxton 9 because it seems like its a clone of H3, but I can get H3 for under $18 anyways.

If you are picky about qc, then maybe rxton 9 "national" follows a stricter standard.

For me, i dont mind if the rubber is slightly heavier or lighter.

Im more curious to see if Rxton 7 can compete with LAC or GTX or D09c