“Sealing effects performance”…. Is there any proof?

[Kopp]

.. Acoustic from TT11 and had them seal it. The blade is known for its feeling and I didn’t want to affect that, but it’s also too expensive to risk damaging.

..

Water-based glue will not damage this blade, nor will it damage any good-quality blade. Even cheap Palio Energy series blades will not be damaged. Just be careful when removing the rubber. Low-range blades or training blades like the 729 V series may splinter when the rubber is removed. I have had experience with these two types of blades.

 

[Tyce]

I’m making an experiment, I’m using raw linseed oil only on one blade no varnish. This is much better for the wood but possibly it will change the properties more, we shall see. I used this a lot on boats for wood preservation.

Cheers
L-zr

Why raw and not cooked? I thought cooked LSO was the preferred method of wood preservation... I actually just got a bottle for my whittling projects

 

[riemsesy]

Why raw and not cooked? I thought cooked LSO was the preferred method of wood preservation... I actually just got a bottle for my whittling projects

cooked LSO doesn't contain any ALA, it isn't good for the health of the blade
j/k

 

[Lazer]

Why raw and not cooked? I thought cooked LSO was the preferred method of wood preservation... I actually just got a bottle for my whittling projects

I happened to have this at home. Yes cooked is probably better, it hardens faster, but the raw one penetrates deeper
If you want to protect wood well, First raw , wait for it to harden, then cooked on top. But this procedure most certainly will change the characteristics of the blade…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Lazer]

cooked LSO doesn't contain any ALA, it isn't good for the health of the blade
j/k

It hardens quicker and doesn’t penetrate deep so it will form a lid on top. It’s excellent for wood preservation and has been used for hundreds of years…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Fshtt]

Should i seal my blade handle?

 

[Aizen]

Should i seal my blade handle?

I don’t recommend it becomes very slippery.
Even I have sand it down, still it’s not good.

IMO Some sweat doesn’t hurt much, you can add couple silica gel packs into your racket case.

 

[Fshtt]

I don’t recommend it becomes very slippery.
Even I have sand it down, still it’s not good.

IMO Some sweat doesn’t hurt much, you can add couple silica gel packs into your racket case.

Would it be good if i sealed the whole blade including the handle and wrapped it with grip tape? Just to protect the blade from sweat, as its expensive (dhs hurricane king)

 

[Lazer]

Would it be good if i sealed the whole blade including the handle and wrapped it with grip tape? Just to protect the blade from sweat, as its expensive (dhs hurricane king)

I doesn’t do much for durability, but it makes a difference in looks. A sealed handle will look nice for a much longer time…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[riemsesy]

I doesn’t do much for durability, but it makes a difference in looks. A sealed handle will look nice for a much longer time…

Cheers
L-zr

A sealed blade handle doesn't look nice at all.. you see the tape, not the handle.

 

[Lazer]

A sealed blade handle doesn't look nice at all.. you see the tape, not the handle.

Tape ???
A joke?

Cheers
L-zr

 

[riemsesy]

Tape ???
A joke?

Cheers
L-zr

live is a joke.. but maybe there is some miscommu ... he also mentioned grip wrap
but sealing a handle... isn't that slippery? wood absorbs some sweat .. in my low ranking experience

 

[Lazer]

live is a joke.. but maybe there is some miscommu ... he also mentioned grip wrap
but sealing a handle... isn't that slippery? wood absorbs some sweat .. in my low ranking experience

The point was looks nothing else.

The one to left is sealed with linseed oil. The one to the right is naked. The one to the left is played about twice as much as the right one. If you seal with varnish it holds up even better…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Aizen]

Would it be good if i sealed the whole blade including the handle and wrapped it with grip tape? Just to protect the blade from sweat, as its expensive (dhs hurricane king)

I don’t like grip tapes ( it’s personal preference) but if you wrap with tape, you should not be needing a sealing the handle.

I was thinking same as you after using long 3 blade couple months (coloring etc), then I bought fang bo, I’ve tried sealing once and regretted.

I prefer stained handle over slippery one. Even with dry hands feel is not good though sealing work was very thin and professional (by order).

If it gets very dirty over time, You can clean or very lightly sand the handle.

 

[riemsesy]

The point was looks nothing else.

The one to left is sealed with linseed oil. The one to the right is naked. The one to the left is played about twice as much as the right one. If you seal with varnish it holds up even better…

Cheers
L-zr

nice to learn!
but what about sweat.. is it more slippery than the 'naked' wooden handle?

 

[NetProphet]

Of all the endless table tennis debates, “seal vs no seal” has to take the grand prize for no clear answer. I’ve been reading for days and I still haven’t reached a conclusion as to whether I should seal my precious new blade.

Rather than sparking the same exact debate again, allow me to address it in a different way:

Science please. Has anyone ever performed a well-controlled test to verify whether or not sealing a blade affects performance? If so, please provide a link.

Thanks

I get that you're just trying to understand if anyone has ever conclusively deduced that there absolutely is, or is not, a difference due to sealing but I would ask, since the difference is so miniscule that nobody has ever reported noticing it, then what's the point? Just seal every blade to protect it and play. Unless you're looking for some scientifically definitive answer to settle a bet it doesn't matter.

Having said that, putting sealer (polyurethane or otherwise) on wood does definitely harden the wood, it just does. So if someone does a test for this correctly they are absolutely gonna find that the outer veneers of the blade will be slightly harder, so the known chemical properties of wood sealers give you your answer without ever even having to pick up a TT blade.
So it will definitely affect the blade but you almost certainly won't notice it. But it also protects the blade and this you will only notice if you don't do it!

 

[Lazer]

nice to learn!
but what about sweat.. is it more slippery than the 'naked' wooden handle?

In the beginning yes, but it will rough up at usage. The point is the wood is protected from moisture. But then again , sweat is not a big problem. It just makes it look not so nice…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Science: If you put paint on the end of a tuning fork and let it dry, and had an identical tuning fork that did not have paint on it, if you sounded each tuning fork, they would sound very slightly different. If you used sealant instead of paint, the tuning fork would still sound slightly different. If you put anything onto the wood of a blade, it will have some impact because now it is not just the wood. That includes glue, rubber, anything. But we buy the blades we do to put the glue and rubbers on. So, in a way the question is besides the point.

It is also worth knowing that, if a blade maker makes a blade with the same wood plies, say he has pieces for each ply that are enough to make two blades and he laminates the plies for one blade with one or a few different kinds of glue, and on the other blade he laminates the wood plies with different kinds of glue: those two blades even though the wood came from the same cut, those two blades will feel different.

Sealing a blade:

So, If you add sealant to a blade, even a thin layer, it will have an effect, even if a very small effect, on how the blade feels: why is this scientifically the case? Anything you put on the wood will change how it feels.. The actual questions that are important are:
1) Would you notice? If not, then it would not matter. Most people would not be able to tell the difference. Some would but it still just would not matter much.
2) Would the way the sealant impacts the blade's feeling make the blade feel better to you or worse? This is a personal choice. For some, the sealant would actually make the blade feel better. For some, it would do the opposite. Again, it is a personal choice.

Seal your blades if you want to, don't if you do not. Also, please note, Stiga makes a whole series of blades with what they call an NCT coating. It is basically a fairly thick, fancy layer of sealant. Those blades feel amazing to me. Yes, Stiga knows how to add that layer in a way that makes the blade feel really crisp and have a real nice snap to it.

There is no question that using water based glue on your blade face will cause the top ply of your blade to absorb some of the water. If you glue regularly, it that will cause the blade to feel duller over the course of 5-10 rubber changes. If that issue is more important to you than the change of feeling you get from applying sealant, then you would want to seal the blade. If you don't care about the water from the glue but do care about the change in feeling from adding the sealant, then you would not want to seal. Honestly, either choice is fine. Either has advantages and disadvantages. It is not a big deal either way. If you are using a blade with a harder top ply like Koto, the benefits of sealing are less useful than if your blade has a softer more delicate top ply like Limba.

===

Sealing the handle:

It is a personal choice here too. I have used blades with sealed handles. I hate how it feels. Lazer is right: it will keep the handle looking better; the handle will stay looking fresh and new exponentially longer. For some that is good. I like my blades and handles looking beat up and old like they have been used, been through the wars and have the dirt, the dings, the sweat stains, the battle scars to show for it. But some people like their blades to stay looking neat and clean. Either is fine.

For me, when there is sealant on the handle, I hate how the handle feels and, yes, it feels slippery to me. And no, I don't like grip tape. But plenty of people do like grip tape.

Most well made TT blades, the handle, the wood of the handle is very good at absorbing sweat and keeping your hand dryer when you are playing. I like that. When the blade's handle is sealed it will not absorb your sweat, the sealant will protect the handle from your sweat, AND the handle definitely will stay looking good for longer. So, again, it is a personal choice. If you like how a handle feels with sealant on it, and you want to protect the wood from water, it will be useful, and it will keep the handle looking very close to how it looked new. And the people who don't like the feel of sealant on the handle, those people should not use sealant.

So, again the real issue with sealing the handle is about personal choice.

 

[Silver Server]

As an aside with all this handle talk, is there a good way to clean the sweat/dirt from the handle?

 

[Lazer]

Science: If you put paint on the end of a tuning fork and let it dry, and had an identical tuning fork that did not have paint on it, if you sounded each tuning fork, they would sound very slightly different. If you used sealant instead of paint, the tuning fork would still sound slightly different. If you put anything onto the wood of a blade, it will have some impact because now it is not just the wood. That includes glue, rubber, anything. But we buy the blades we do to put the glue and rubbers on. So, in a way the question is besides the point.

It is also worth knowing that, if a blade maker makes a blade with the same wood plies, say he has pieces for each ply that are enough to make two blades and he laminates the plies for one blade with one or a few different kinds of glue, and on the other blade he laminates the wood plies with different kinds of glue: those two blades even though the wood came from the same cut, those two blades will feel different.

Sealing a blade:

So, If you add sealant to a blade, even a thin layer, it will have an effect, even if a very small effect, on how the blade feels: why is this scientifically the case? Anything you put on the wood will change how it feels.. The actual questions that are important are:
1) Would you notice? If not, then it would not matter? Most people would not be able to tell the difference. Some would but it still just would not matter much.
2) Would the way the sealant impacts the blade's feeling make the blade feel better to you or worse? This is a personal choice. For some, the sealant would actually make the blade feel better. For some, it would do the opposite. Again, it is a personal choice.

Seal your blades if you want to, don't if you do not. Also, please note, Stiga makes a whole series of blades with what they call an NCT coating. It is basically a fairly thick, fancy layer of sealant. Those blades feel amazing to me. Yes, Stiga knows how to add that layer in a way that makes the blade feel really crisp and have a real nice snap to it.

There is no question that using water based glue on your blade face will cause the top ply of your blade to absorb some of the water. If you glue regularly, it that will cause the blade to feel duller over the course of 5-10 changes of rubber. If that issue is more important to you than the change of feeling you get from applying sealant, then you would want to seal the blade. If you don't care about the water from the glue but do care about the change in feeling from adding the sealant, then you would not want to seal. Honestly, either choice is fine. Either has advantages and disadvantages. It is not a big deal either way. If you are using a blade with a harder top ply like Koto, the benefits of sealing are less useful than if your blade has a softer more delicate top ply like Limba.

===

Sealing the handle:

It is a personal choice here too. I have used blades with sealed handles. I hate how it feels. Lazer is right: it will keep the handle looking better; the handle will stay looking fresh and new exponentially longer. For some that is good. I like my blades and handles looking beat up and old like they have been used, been through the wars and have the dirt, the dings, the sweat stains, the battle scars to show for it. But some people like their blades to stay looking neat and clean. Either is fine.

For me, when there is sealant on the handle, I hate how the handle feels and, yes, it feels slippery to me. And no, I don't like grip tape. But plenty of people do like grip tape.

Most well made TT blades, the handle, the wood of the handle is very good at absorbing sweat and keeping your hand dryer when you are playing. I like that. When the blade's handle is sealed it will not absorb your sweat. But definitely will stay looking good for longer. So, again, it is a personal choice. If you like how a handle feels with sealant on it, and you want to protect the wood from water, it will be useful, and it will keep the handle looking very close to how it looked new. And the people who don't like the feel of sealant on the handle, those people should not use sealant.

So, again the real issue with sealing the handle is about personal choice.

Then handle is visible, the blade isn’t , I’d like it to look nice but I most of the time don’t do anything with it… But I always seal my blades. The change in characteristics is minimal and the change over time is less as well ..

Cheers
L-zr