How to stop losing 2:3 after leading 2:0?

[_ak]

I believe many have or had this issue. I remember only a few occasions when I won 3:2 after trailing 0:2, last time it was against a higher rated anti-player, which was extremely satisfying, but usually it's other way around.

Like today. It was like my FH was fast, spinny and difficult to block and I am ready to kill any return anyway, my BH was fast, low and snappy almost like Patrick's when he beaten Ma Long, footwork not the best but still quite decent, everything was here to win (damn, I am great 😂) . I won the 1st set comfortably, I thought I won the 2nd as well and stopped playing at like 11:6, but the opponent claimed it's only 10. OK, I agreed, lost all set points but still pulled out deuce 15:13.

Relaxed too soon like I won already and it's going to be easy but I didn't yet. A few thrown away points in the beginnings of the next sets, more risks, rushed play when the opponent didn't change anything dramatically. Disappointing defeat as result.

It's a pure mental thing and I understand that I should stop thinking about victory till it's done, stop taking more risks and just keep doing that worked well before, sounds great.

But there is a 1 million dollars question how to actually do it?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Lin Gaoyin needs to read the answers too.

things change in matches, the most important thing is to change with the changes.
or change based on the opponents or your own performance.
the one who changes correctly will prevail

 

[_ak]

It's less disappointing in case the opponent changed tactics and outsmarted you. Often it's not the case.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It's less disappointing in case the opponent changed tactics and outsmarted you. Often it's not the case.

it might be what you are doing is no longer working for various reasons

 

[Tyce]

It's less disappointing in case the opponent changed tactics and outsmarted you. Often it's not the case.

Or you didn't notice the change

 

[_ak]

Could be of course. But often we mortals don't have a coach to suggest something. Thus I incline to blame myself more.

 

[Attitude]

It's less disappointing in case the opponent changed tactics and outsmarted you. Often it's not the case.

Last season i played many players way above my level at that moment.
To beat them i attacked almost everything to get ahead. Something im usually capable because i can flick almost every serve.
I lost every match that went into the fifth, and believe me, it is not my mental game although i do tend to tense up a bit if it gets this close.
But the issue almost everytime starts before that.

Until a certain level 2 sets are more than enough to get a grasp of you opponents skills. The amount of spin and how to block it for example are several aspects that are getting learned in this time.

Afterwards i personally got the issue that my opponents were able to block and then even able to counterattack propperly.
That was often a situation i am neither familiar with nor able to react in time to.

This is just one example of a single aspect that can change and doesnt even have anything to do with changes of tactics.

If you simply want to work on yourself and not realize what the opponent changes/got better with, then check at least what brought yourself to lose you the most points and work on that.
What shots were you struggling with? What are strongsuits of your gameplay that you can even improve? What tactics worked and what were tactics were dumb and shouldnt be used anymore?
On amateur level i would always advise to simplify these "issues" and try to find allround solutions that work on more than one shot/problem.
The moment you start or need to defeat a single opponent you know, you can start checking on the specifics.

Another example, so you have even more text to read
I had one opponent last week that hast almost 100 TTR more than myself and is way more experienced than i am and usually defeats me simply by outplaying me. All his strokes except for his defence are weaker than mine and still i lost the last 2 matches we had last season.
This time i came even more prepared. I prepared for several aspects with which he outsmarted me with. I overcame his blocking tactic by being able to move faster and therefore hit way harder with my forehand than i did last year.
I played way more shots into his elbow if couldnt go all out. I played way more short balls if didnt need to attack. I improved my overall shot quality so he couldnt countersmash.
I couldnt win clearly but i did improve on enough aspects i could at least beat him. And these are enough points that help me in many other matches as well^^

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

I find that it can just be a skill issue.
Whatever won you the first 2 sets might not win you another set.
For example: You win 2 sets 11-9, each time because you got aces with your serves.
He got used to your serves now and you struggle.
Also you didn't get used to hitting backhand loops against his pushes, which would be necessary now.

It's easy to say "mental issues" when it can be just that your weapons don't work anymore and you don't take the calculated risks needed to win.

 

[Dr Evil]

If it's just a question of easing up and getting careless, then stop doing that! Of course that's not much easier than playing relaxed if you get too tense. Footwork is often the first thing to go when playing too loose or too tense. Is that what's happening? Video your matches and find out, and then you'll know what you need to work on.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Ask Jeon Jihee who lost to Hina Hayata after leading 3-0 (Qatar Open ?? before Tokyo Olympics ???)
JJH was the #1 seed of that tournament and higher ranked than Hayata at the time.
She started crying during G7 and sat crying for minutes after her loss.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Last season i played many players way above my level at that moment.
To beat them i attacked almost everything to get ahead. Something im usually capable because i can flick almost every serve.
I lost every match that went into the fifth, and believe me, it is not my mental game although i do tend to tense up a bit if it gets this close.
But the issue almost everytime starts before that.

Until a certain level 2 sets are more than enough to get a grasp of you opponents skills. The amount of spin and how to block it for example are several aspects that are getting learned in this time.

Afterwards i personally got the issue that my opponents were able to block and then even able to counterattack propperly.
That was often a situation i am neither familiar with nor able to react in time to.

This is just one example of a single aspect that can change and doesnt even have anything to do with changes of tactics.

If you simply want to work on yourself and not realize what the opponent changes/got better with, then check at least what brought yourself to lose you the most points and work on that.
What shots were you struggling with? What are strongsuits of your gameplay that you can even improve? What tactics worked and what were tactics were dumb and shouldnt be used anymore?
On amateur level i would always advise to simplify these "issues" and try to find allround solutions that work on more than one shot/problem.
The moment you start or need to defeat a single opponent you know, you can start checking on the specifics.

Another example, so you have even more text to read
I had one opponent last week that hast almost 100 TTR more than myself and is way more experienced than i am and usually defeats me simply by outplaying me. All his strokes except for his defence are weaker than mine and still i lost the last 2 matches we had last season.
This time i came even more prepared. I prepared for several aspects with which he outsmarted me with. I overcame his blocking tactic by being able to move faster and therefore hit way harder with my forehand than i did last year.
I played way more shots into his elbow if couldnt go all out. I played way more short balls if didnt need to attack. I improved my overall shot quality so he couldnt countersmash.
I couldnt win clearly but i did improve on enough aspects i could at least beat him. And these are enough points that help me in many other matches as well^^

i agree with all what you've said.
I've got no particular issues with G5. its usually 50/50 or even a bit better against players of similar level to me. But i will tend to lose if the opponent is stronger, so its normal.

But one of my friends, E, has a very bad record when it comes to G5.
He asked me why and I told him his problem he has only 1 absolutely great weapon: his long side spin pendulum serve. Every opponent is struggling with it. and he gets a huge advantage on his service game

But the good players figure it out after one or two games. and by the time it gets to G5 all his long serves get attacked properly and he has no plan B. he wants to serve short now ? he gets nervous and his serves are too high and/or too long...Instead of staying at the table he would go far away and start fishing or lobbing when he gets attacked. Its so painful to watch

He would tell me after the match he got too much stress and mental problems are his main issues while IMO they are the symptoms not the cause. The cause being relying too much on one single weapon and when its neutralized he tenses up.

 

[_ak]

What shots were you struggling with?

The trick is there were none, really nothing special.

Of course there are much stronger players who I can't beat no matter what I do.

 

[dingyibvs]

The trick is there were none, really nothing special.

Of course there are much stronger players who I can't beat no matter what I do.

Then the trick is finding out what's special. Most likely the case isn't that there isn't anything, just that you haven't noticed anything. If you can't figure it out yourself, and it might be difficult to do so as an observer can usually see things much clearer, then you should ask others who watch your games. It's like how @Takkyu_wa_inochi was able to see his friend's game clearer than his friend could himself. You can also record some matches to watch yourself, which is easier, but could still be biased by whatever your current notions are of why you've been losing, or you can let others watch and point out what's different in the 2nd half of each match.

 

[_ak]

On one side it's touching that you say I didn't notice somesing and it's not completely my fault. On another in such cases it ends up 1-3 usually.. 2-3 are always special because of the feel being close.

 

[_ak]

Then just stop f-ing around and get it done

That's the thing. I've already solved some of my problems how not to give away too many cheap points and it boosted my rating up but some mental issues are still here.

 

[NetProphet]

i agree with all what you've said.
I've got no particular issues with G5. its usually 50/50 or even a bit better against players of similar level to me. But i will tend to lose if the opponent is stronger, so its normal.

But one of my friends, E, has a very bad record when it comes to G5.
He asked me why and I told him his problem he has only 1 absolutely great weapon: his long side spin pendulum serve. Every opponent is struggling with it. and he gets a huge advantage on his service game

But the good players figure it out after one or two games. and by the time it gets to G5 all his long serves get attacked properly and he has no plan B. he wants to serve short now ? he gets nervous and his serves are too high and/or too long...Instead of staying at the table he would go far away and start fishing or lobbing when he gets attacked. Its so painful to watch

He would tell me after the match he got too much stress and mental problems are his main issues while IMO they are the symptoms not the cause. The cause being relying too much on one single weapon and when its neutralized he tenses up.

Yes, I see this a lot. People losing their concentration and determination when the fear of losing comes along. Even if you have one great weapon and it gets figured out the stress is as much a symptom of mental weakness or lack of game saavy than anything.
Mentally you should be thinking positively about the game, what is the opponent doing, what can I do differently, what service allows me to attack his weakness, to where should I block etc etc etc.
Failure to focus on what you CAN/SHOULD do leaves people in despair because the sense of 'not knowing' what to do or try brings a despair and helplessness.
Many people cruise through games simply playing off the cuff and without really analyzing what's actually happened in the previous sets. That's fun if you don't mind losing and just play for fun but if you decide you want to play to win you simply cannot do this. You have to really concentrate to construct the best picture you can about what's happening. Sometimes the picture is unclear and sometimes the picture is just wrong, it's a skill you have to work on. But sometimes you get the picture right and you make the needed changes which is immensely satisfying.
So it seems to me that it's an entire game management strategy that's needed.
Best thing is to read some books on it then start to put it into practice in matches.

 

[NetProphet]

That's the thing. I've already solved some of my problems how not to give away too many cheap points and it boosted my rating up but some mental issues are still here.

Sorry man, bad post from me. I had that written and accidently posted it before reading your post again and posting a hopefully somewhat helpful reply 👍

 

[_ak]

Sorry man, bad post from me. I had that written and accidently posted it before reading your post again and posting a hopefully somewhat helpful reply 👍

No worries, I don't expect a magic pill anyway

 

[mcfly]

Lin Gaoyin needs to read the answers too.

things change in matches, the most important thing is to change with the changes.
or change based on the opponents or your own performance.
the one who changes correctly will prevail

i believe the OP is Lin Gaoyuan himself

 

[KM1976]

Ok, this is my favorite topic and may be for most of the hobby players here on this forum. Hell, how did I lose when I thought that this was an ezeepezee match for me, specially when I have a 2:0 lead. Believe me, I still do lose it and I hate it enough that I feel like writing about it.
So, lets first analyze how do I feel. Well, obviously I feel bad, I mean I wanted to win, and now I lost. So I feel like crap. My new rubber sucks, my viscaria also sucks and I am a bit (may be more) old for this new kid. Right? Well hang on.
Let's put some guardrails around this though process so that it doesn't grazes over the whole field and then just produces brain fart? Ok.
Guardrails are -
1. Spin 2. Speed and 3. Placement.
Now, I am an attacking player on both wings, if you ask me, I think my attack is pretty good and I can give a 2200 USATT player a run for his money.
So our story starts such that, our superhero (which is me) is on full high octane firing on all cylinders. Most of loops are landing, my serves are holding up my opponent and mind you, being a lefty I have watched Timo Boll's placement video and this tells me to spin on to righty's forehand (partial info by the way).
This approach takes me to 2 - 0 lead, but now I see some cracks like what?
1. My opponent has guessed my spin potential so now they are stepping back by half step or so to block the ball back. On the other hand, I have developed a mental picture for this game, which is that my first loop is unblockable by any human or Xenomorph. Hence, I am not prepared to step back in 3rd set and also do not have the body balance to execute follow up strokes. Once this pattern happens - I start putting more and more ammo in my loop whereby digging my own hole and starting to furnish it.
2. My opponent also has some strength - he is fighting a superhero so has some aces up his sleeve. He either increases the spin on his serve. For a looper like me, a very heavy backspin does the job. Or he makes the serve complete no spin. Again a good strategy against me. But where am I? I am still fighting the dead demons of the previous point where I either missed the first loop or the next. So, 50% presence here and 50% in the past gives me less that 10% result. And believe me, your body language shows that. If you have an opponent going through this phase, you can sense it too.
3. Since I have already taken 2-0 lead, I haven't experimented with my topspin serve, since I am serving basic underspin, getting a push, looping it and winning the point. So why bother? But now, I feel I need to change. And since my mind is sitting on a race horse, this change is not small, Oh NO! this is big, I mean real topspin serve. Since I never tested it before, therefore, either I miss it or I get smacked on it.
4. I already found success in looping to forehand hence not tried going out of corners. This is again the same approach as digging a hole and now furnishing it. Since I didn't made the finer adjustments which can help me understand how I can play a slow sidespin loop curving out of the side of the table and how my opponent reacts to it. But now I want to try it out. Too late - since if the guy I am playing is smart enough he can accurately say that I am now looking of ways out of the situation and will try such measures. He is prepared and again I can't loop the next ball since I tasted initial success by only looping one or two balls maximum.

You can read this story in your perspective or your opponents perspective, but if you check on what is changing - Spin, Speed or Placement with any combination of these guardrails, you will have your answer. I have seen opponent's who are trailing do try out a different approach in the start of the 3rd set. Again with these guardrails, you need to be taking small mental notes and observe the point. Try to engage in a rally when you observe such changes so that your mind has a picture on how things unfold. If this strategy works against you, then you can be sure that you will get this applied against you going forward. If you can overcome the strategy then you are creating crisis for your opponent.

So morale of the story is -
1. Experiment with serves at the start of the match and don't hold on to them until it is too late.
2. Attack but spread your attack on the table based on the incoming ball. Create doubt in your opponents mind.
3. Read the spin - if you get a feel that this is too much to handle then receive it and then loop the next ball. I have to keep reminding myself of this.
4. Deliberately change a push rally to a no spin and then try to attack the ball. Believe me, if you only loop underspin in first 2 sets but get no spin or less spin with good speed there is a great chance that you will miss it.
5. Be prepared to play a 10 ball rally. That is keep your feet moving. Don't get rooted in one place.
6. Think of 100 needle treatment. Don't try to kill the ball until you are 100% sure.

Thanks, KM1976