How should I return short and low no spin serves that come to my backhand other than pushing them long or slowly flicking them being left handed?

[Robin0910]

Well, other than blocking the backhand is my weaker side.

A. Obviously I can’t kill these balls with flicks because they’re very short and low so at best I can slowly flick them which work if they don’t kill my flicks with their third ball. (Open to ideas to where and what spin to flick the balls with)

B. Pushing long is always an option but I’m not a fan of letting others take the initiative especially if they have a strong forehand. (Pushing long to the middle works well until I get figured out)

C. Side swiping with my backhand to their forehand also works but it’s not that easy to keep them short and have good quality at the same time. If I miss one of the two I’ll either be punished right away (too long) or they push a fast long ball to my backhand (short but lack quality or really even good side swipes) and I won’t have time to loop it with quality.

These were my ideas for it and I‘d never tried anything else.
I greatly appreciate new ideas or any new suggestions for the previous 3.

 

[Jslick89]

push short? I think when you get to a certain level, the best return is the kind of return that your opponent doesnt expect (just like a serve). Sometimes you push short, other times you push long, and when you have the right chance, perform the best backhand flick you can, but be prepared for that ball to come back to you.

 

[TackyForehand]

Return it as is, short no spin. You are allowed wait for a better chance.

 

[Robin0910]

well, now that I think about it I never really tried pushing it back short since it’s quite hard to keep a no spin ball low and short but I’ll give it a try. But if I try putting more backspin on it it’ll automatically be half long or long and if I don’t put any spin back isn’t it gonna be too low quality?

 

[Jslick89]

why would

well, now that I think about it I never really tried pushing it back short since it’s quite hard to keep a no spin ball low and short but I’ll give it a try. But if I try putting more backspin on it it’ll automatically be half long or long and if I don’t put any spin back isn’t it gonna be too low quality?

why would it automatically be half long if you put more backspin on it? if its deadspin serve, you keep your paddle paddle more perpendicular to the table, and "chop" down to touch the ball short with more backspin......

 

[Robin0910]

why would

why would it automatically be half long if you put more backspin on it? if its deadspin serve, you keep your paddle paddle more perpendicular to the table, and "chop" down to touch the ball short with more backspin......

Yeah, but if there‘s no momentum on the ball it goes straight into the net if I just chop it downward instead of forward. If I go slightly bit forward trying to put spin on it it’s very hard to keep it short since the incoming ball is dead with no momentum

i mean if there’s momentum like in Lind’s videos where he shows his no spin serve then you can push short form that but with an incoming slow dead ball how do I do that?

 

[blahness]

Easy, these are all opportunity balls for chiquita. I wish ppl served this to me but they never do

 

[Robin0910]

By the way, what do I do with my backhand if the incoming dead serve is half long other than pushing long like here

8:30?

 

[Robin0910]

Easy, these are all opportunity balls for chiquita. I wish ppl served this to me but they never do

check this one at 14:10. it went to FZD’s backhand a dead half long serve. If he who has the best backhand in the world now doesn’t flick it how am I supposed to do that? As abnormal as it sounds it’s quite hard to impart spin on low dead balls over the table. It’s much easier to add more spin

 

[blahness]

check this one at 14:10. it went to FZD’s backhand a dead half long serve. If he who has the best backhand in the world now doesn’t flick it how am I supposed to do that? As abnormal as it sounds it’s quite hard to impart spin on low dead balls over the table. It’s much easier to add more spin

FZD for sure can chiquita everything there. It is just that he wants variation in his receive, not that he cant. Chiquita is really easy to add a huge ton of spin onto short balls. If it exits the left side of the table you can even make the movement larger and stronger.

But of course chiquita can also get counterlooped if the other player is expecting it.

 

[Robin0910]

why would

why would it automatically be half long if you put more backspin on it? if its deadspin serve, you keep your paddle paddle more perpendicular to the table, and "chop" down to touch the ball short with more backspin......

at 20:20 and at 27:59 even Fan Zhendong couldn’t keep the receive low and short for those dead serves

 

[Dr Evil]

Definitely not easy to attack, not even for FZD or other chiquita masters, which is why it's a frequently used serve at the highest level. Placement is key, with variation and deception. If the server is slow, short touches work well. If not, then I usually prefer long dead ball pushes. Let him do the work of opening against a dead ball and be ready to counter.

 

[Robin0910]

FZD for sure can chiquita everything there. It is just that he wants variation in his receive, not that he cant. Chiquita is really easy to add a huge ton of spin onto short balls. If it exits the left side of the table you can even make the movement larger and stronger.

But of course chiquita can also get counterlooped if the other player is expecting it.

Fan Zhendong had Wang Hao with him and throughout the entire match he flicked the serves 4 times with a success rate of 25%. That 1 won point was a side backspin serve receive and out of the 75%lost points 2 flicks Went right into the net (that was a side backspin serve) and the other one hit the edge of his bat.

i doubt he and also Wang Hao didn’t think of flicking the serves. Those serves are just too hand cuffing to be able to flick them with quality

 

[Robin0910]

Definitely not easy to attack, not even for FZD or other chiquita masters, which is why it's a frequently used serve at the highest level. Placement is key, with variation and deception. If the server is slow, short touches work well. If not, then I usually prefer long dead ball pushes. Let him do the work of opening against a dead ball and be ready to counter.

Well, I suppose pushing long works the best because out of all the receives he won the most points against LSS doing that. Even his short pushes flailed him miserably like at 20:20 or 27:59 in this match

 

[Jslick89]

at 20:20 and at 27:59 even Fan Zhendong couldn’t keep the receive low and short for those dead serves

I remember watching this match live. LSS played unbelievably well. I guess my question to you, since you are using videos of the pros, are you saying that your opponents are regularly serving as well as LSS does in this match? Is it possible that your opponent is sometimes serving the ball higher or in an easier place than LSS? Either way, i go back to my original point of making sure there is variance in your serve return, touching short when you can (even if that means you also return dead) and also to make sure you are trying the occasional flick to keep your opponent off their 3rd ball attack. Most people struggle against good deadspin serves...but eventually can adjust their placement and/or add a quality attack to their return if they aren't touching short.

 

[blahness]

Fan Zhendong had Wang Hao with him and throughout the entire match he flicked the serves 4 times with a success rate of 25%. That 1 won point was a side backspin serve receive and out of the 75%lost points 2 flicks Went right into the net (that was a side backspin serve) and the other one hit the edge of his bat.

i doubt he and also Wang Hao didn’t think of flicking the serves. Those serves are just too hand cuffing to be able to flick them with quality

yeah those are spin misreads not so much that he cant do it. There is no serve that cannot be chiquitaed if one anticipates well, gets to the right position in time, and reads the spin correctly.

 

[Robin0910]

yeah those are spin misreads not so much that he cant do it. There is no serve that cannot be chiquitaed if one anticipates well, gets to the right position in time, and reads the spin correctly.

Well, LSS served dead balls for about 90% of his serves with different placements so it’s hard for me to believe that Fan Zhendong didn’t flick them just because he wasn’t ready even after talking to Wang Hao multiple times.
Had he suggested him to flick the serves he would’ve done so.
For the vast majority of his receives he didn’t even have any body language to initiate to flick serves and would just step in and push balls back. To me this shows that it’s quite hard to flick these balls with quality. Especially for an amateur player whose backhand and flicks are a whole lot weaker than FZD’s.
And sure, almost every serve can be flicked but if it doesn’t have enough quality it’s going to be worse than an empty push back

 

[Robin0910]

I suppose variety is key here since there’s no obvious answer for this kind of serve.
Pushing short a dead serve with quality is extremely hard to do consistently but mixing it up with flicks, long pushes and side swipes make or break the match.
Tho, I just want to add that even Fan Zhendong couldn’t really do anything against these serves, though, fortunately, my opponents are nowhere near as strong as LSS.

 

[banbekas]

Honestly, you're too fixated on making high-quality returns. We're amateurs, and we don't always get punished for lower-quality returns. You can push it short or long, slow flick it, or use a chiquita—everything is possible. Instead, you should focus on varying your placement and how you receive the serve. By doing so, you get into your opponent's head, which matters more than just the quality of your return.

 

[blahness]

Honestly, you're too fixated on making high-quality returns. We're amateurs, and we don't always get punished for lower-quality returns. You can push it short or long, slow flick it, or use a chiquita—everything is possible. Instead, you should focus on varying your placement and how you receive the serve. By doing so, you get into your opponent's head, which matters more than just the quality of your return.

Yeah, if I chiquitaed it I would win the point like 70-80% of the time. It is not like playing against a pro like LSS who will absolutely counterloop any weak ones and blast them back.