Rubber recommendations for a counter-attacker

[thomas.pong]

Hello everyone,

My teammate plays mostly blocks (soft ones more often than not, sometimes fast) then counter attacks either flat or with some topspin on both wings.

His blade/handle broke off during our last league match (I don't even think it hit the table), he was playing with a Donic Burn OFF- with 2-year old Donic Bluefire M3 in 2.0mm on both sides. After trying another teammate's vintage Tibhar IV-L with 1-year old Joola Samba Sound in 1.8mm on both wings, which he liked, he ordered a new IV-L with a fresh set of M3's and really doesn't like the way it feels.

He's now ordered a new Donic Burn OFF- but has also mentioned he doesn't like the feel of new rubbers at all, my guess is they are too grippy and bouncy for his style. Wondering what rubbers he should get instead, I was thinking perhaps non-tension rubbers such as Butterfly Sriver EL (or regular or FX?), Cornilleau Drive Speed, Tibhar Rapid, Joola Samba, Andro Shifter, Yasaka Mark V, or perhaps even short pips?

Thoughts?

 

[lVegita]

Hey Thomas, how long did he tried the new M3? You probably now it, but Bluefires get some more control after the booster is gone.

Anyways, I guess he is having problem with the higher throw on the new ones also? And his 2yo was probably even softer. Acuda P2 comes to my mind. Feels a bit softer than M3, has lower throw, and lots of control.

 

[Der_Echte]

In the old days, Nittaku Hammond was optimal for the OP's described requirements.

If you look around, you may still find it. My local club still sells sheets of Hammond X, a faster version.

In modern times, you are looking for the med hard to hard sponged stuff, so ones like Calibra LT are the middle ground for that. Aurus may play even better. Vega Japan, Karis, M2 are a few othes out of hundreds.

Every outfit makes several in that class.

 

[yoass]

A bunch of the “spin everything!” crowd over here hates running into Calibra LT vengefully.

We have a few counterhitters that use Coppa X2 on somewhat harder, but usually not wildly speedy, blades. The Timo Boll Forte comes to mind.

 

[thomas.pong]

Hey Thomas, how long did he tried the new M3? You probably now it, but Bluefires get some more control after the booster is gone.

Anyways, I guess he is having problem with the higher throw on the new ones also? And his 2yo was probably even softer. Acuda P2 comes to my mind. Feels a bit softer than M3, has lower throw, and lots of control.

Hey lVegita, probably for 6 hours total on the Tibhar IV-L which is not long at all, but keep in mind he has been using M3 for 2 years already and if there's one thing he knows is that he much prefers a used as hell rubber than anything that I would consider having enough grip left for me to play with (and I do play with my rubbers for 6 months at a rate of 8 hours per week summer months included).

While the blade change was probably the main issue, I think the rubbers having too much grip and being too spin sensitive for his taste is a major one for him as well, and smack in the middle of the season, he'd rather have something he can trust right now than weight for the booster and especially the topsheet to wear off.

Lower throw might be a good thing to compensate for some of these issues he's experiencing, I'm going to look into Acuda P2 and like rubbers, thank you very much for your thoughts and suggestion!

 

[thomas.pong]

In the old days, Nittaku Hammond was optimal for the OP's described requirements.

If you look around, you may still find it. My local club still sells sheets of Hammond X, a faster version.

In modern times, you are looking for the med hard to hard sponged stuff, so ones like Calibra LT are the middle ground for that. Aurus may play even better. Vega Japan, Karis, M2 are a few othes out of hundreds.

Every outfit makes several in that class.

Hi Mister Real, I knew I could count on you! Thank you for all your suggestions!

I've heard such things about the Nittaku Hammond fitting the aforementioned bill perfectly, it's really too bad it's gone and for my teammate's sake, I'd rather not recommend him the faster/harder version as he's a rather passive player for the most part until he feels he can win the point and even then, he messes you up with timing, placement and no-spin more than anything/speed.

I like the idea of Calibra LT, a popular rubber at my club, though I didn't realize it was so deceiving for attackers which is along the lines of what he'd be looking for. And I also think a bit harder than what he had (45 deg rather than 40) would be good for him and his blocking/counter-attacking game especially with the plastic ball.

Are any of the rubbers you mentioned less grippy than the others and perhaps less linear?

Also, would it be better for him to get them in 1.8 or 2.0mm?

 

[thomas.pong]

A bunch of the “spin everything!” crowd over here hates running into Calibra LT vengefully.

We have a few counterhitters that use Coppa X2 on somewhat harder, but usually not wildly speedy, blades. The Timo Boll Forte comes to mind.

Hi yoass, thank you for stepping up to the plate!

Please tell me more about the hatred attackers have when facing Calibra LT! Why that is...

Der_Echte also recommended it here and it's true some of the players who've used it at my club were able to slow the game down and have quite a bit of control on top of generating enough top spin when they wanted to. I was never interested to try it but will, I've also heard that it wears off quite fast which would actually be good news for my teammate needs: a tensor with little grip but not an anti! lol

 

[yoass]

Calibra LT seems to hit the flat hitting style well. I would guess it’s a rubber that enables hitting through spin-heavy balls with relative ease.

So spinners get lured into opening up with heavy spin only to get blasted out of the court by the counter.

 

[Der_Echte]

Calibra LT seems to hit the flat hitting style well. I would guess it’s a rubber that enables hitting through spin-heavy balls with relative ease.

So spinners get lured into opening up with heavy spin only to get blaated out of the court by the counter.

Calibra LT is already a very fast rubber, but when a player makes a strong swing AND firms up the grip (right at impact) with that direct to center of ball impact, the result is a very fast counter hit that will go by you.

If you pick up the ball, you would see 4 letters on it... BY-YA... meaning the ball went BY-YA (Ya means YOU in slang English)

Calibra LT is just one of those rubbers that excel at that task.

MX-P and Aurus, if used a couple months, become decently spin insensitive, but still capable of spinning. Karis is even better at that and lasts almost forever.

If anyone watched Greg Letts BTY Board Meeting on Price Increases comic vid, you would remember that the director of Research and Development got fired immediately upon reporting to the Chairman that they discovered a way to make a rubber that lasts forever.

 

[Der_Echte]

Calibra LT seems to hit the flat hitting style well. I would guess it’s a rubber that enables hitting through spin-heavy balls with relative ease.

So spinners get lured into opening up with heavy spin only to get blaated out of the court by the counter.

Hi Mister Real, I knew I could count on you! Thank you for all your suggestions!

I've heard such things about the Nittaku Hammond fitting the aforementioned bill perfectly, it's really too bad it's gone and for my teammate's sake, I'd rather not recommend him the faster/harder version as he's a rather passive player for the most part until he feels he can win the point and even then, he messes you up with timing, placement and no-spin more than anything/speed.

I like the idea of Calibra LT, a popular rubber at my club, though I didn't realize it was so deceiving for attackers which is along the lines of what he'd be looking for. And I also think a bit harder than what he had (45 deg rather than 40) would be good for him and his blocking/counter-attacking game especially with the plastic ball.

Are any of the rubbers you mentioned less grippy than the others and perhaps less linear?

Also, would it be better for him to get them in 1.8 or 2.0mm?

Hammond is available at TT11. I just made an order there. Among other things, I ordered a sheet of Hammond in 2.0 (but it is available in thinner sponge) I also ordered one of the all-time great control rubbers - Nittaku Magic Carbon.

I am not a fan of an inverted rubber with less than 2.0 sponge (1.9 for BTY), but everyone is their own man or woman.

You mentioned you wanted LINEAR. It doesn't get much linear than Karis. If he likes medium, then the + version, or medium soft, the M version. Both are linear across each speed of impact. Karis lasts so long, whoever sells it may hate on you for not re-ordering... but what the heck, why re-order when it is still perfectly serviceable?

I ordered the Hammond just because of this thread, I haven't felt how Hammond handles spin in over 10 years. I wanted to see that feel again and compare to more modern stuff.

 

[Robin0910]

I want to resurrect this thread.
What are currently the best medium hard to medium ESN or Daiki table tennis rubbers for counter topspins?

 

[Amaken23]

I want to resurrect this thread.
What are currently the best medium hard to medium ESN or Daiki table tennis rubbers for counter topspins?

As I play little bit of a counter style close to the table from both sides, I'd recommend Nittaku Fastarc series. I use C-1 on my forehand and S-1 on backhand. I really like S-1 on my backhand : blocking is really nice with it, backhand flicks are consistent and going over the net and on the table and is really good for both counter topspin and punch after opponent's topspin.

 

[Robin0910]

As I play little bit of a counter style close to the table from both sides, I'd recommend Nittaku Fastarc series. I use C-1 on my forehand and S-1 on backhand. I really like S-1 on my backhand : blocking is really nice with it, backhand flicks are consistent and going over the net and on the table and is really good for both counter topspin and punch after opponent's topspin.

How are they compared to G1?

 

[Amaken23]

How are they compared to G1?

I never played with G-1 myself but from what I've heard, they are more controllable (G-1 has 47.5 hardness while S-1 and C-1 have 45 degrees sponge hardness.) I can say that from my experience, S-1 is more oriented towards speed while C-1 is more oriented towards spin. Both are best suited for players with controlled offensive playstyle, I'd say. For me it works for counters since I prefer medium rubbers with my Stiga Azalea Offensive blade. Sorry, you'd need to ask someone else who actually played with G-1....I never used it, for me 45 degree rubbers are max hardness I'll use for my style of play.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Hello everyone,

My teammate plays mostly blocks (soft ones more often than not, sometimes fast) then counter attacks either flat or with some topspin on both wings.

His blade/handle broke off during our last league match (I don't even think it hit the table), he was playing with a Donic Burn OFF- with 2-year old Donic Bluefire M3 in 2.0mm on both sides. After trying another teammate's vintage Tibhar IV-L with 1-year old Joola Samba Sound in 1.8mm on both wings, which he liked, he ordered a new IV-L with a fresh set of M3's and really doesn't like the way it feels.

He's now ordered a new Donic Burn OFF- but has also mentioned he doesn't like the feel of new rubbers at all, my guess is they are too grippy and bouncy for his style. Wondering what rubbers he should get instead, I was thinking perhaps non-tension rubbers such as Butterfly Sriver EL (or regular or FX?), Cornilleau Drive Speed, Tibhar Rapid, Joola Samba, Andro Shifter, Yasaka Mark V, or perhaps even short pips?

Thoughts?

My MYR 0.02 worth regarding blocking rubber:

1. I personally had played with non-tensor grippy rubber, specifically Butterfly Flextra on my BH which I mainly block. My opponent hated it. He said it felt like playing against anti, in the sense, he felt the ball does not come, or rather, it comes slow and with lesser momentum. He cannot borrow my strength and that messes up with his timing.

2. The good thing is, with Flextra, I can still open up with BH topspin because, unlike anti, it is still grippy.

3. I have the opportunity to play with a typical club push-blocker who uses Sriver-fx on his BH and I notice his blocks are always back on the table. Each time I loop, I have to be extra vigilant for a second, third or fourth ball coming back. It appears to be so easy to block topspin ball with it.

4. The above are my experience with non-tensor grippy rubber.

 

[kingkimchi]

Hello everyone,

My teammate plays mostly blocks (soft ones more often than not, sometimes fast) then counter attacks either flat or with some topspin on both wings.

His blade/handle broke off during our last league match (I don't even think it hit the table), he was playing with a Donic Burn OFF- with 2-year old Donic Bluefire M3 in 2.0mm on both sides. After trying another teammate's vintage Tibhar IV-L with 1-year old Joola Samba Sound in 1.8mm on both wings, which he liked, he ordered a new IV-L with a fresh set of M3's and really doesn't like the way it feels.

He's now ordered a new Donic Burn OFF- but has also mentioned he doesn't like the feel of new rubbers at all, my guess is they are too grippy and bouncy for his style. Wondering what rubbers he should get instead, I was thinking perhaps non-tension rubbers such as Butterfly Sriver EL (or regular or FX?), Cornilleau Drive Speed, Tibhar Rapid, Joola Samba, Andro Shifter, Yasaka Mark V, or perhaps even short pips?

Thoughts?

I know your said not tension rubbers would be to his liking, but I cant stop thinking of those tenergy fx series. Give it a go but this is just my stupid ideas.

 

[yoass]

If bounciness is the problem, the Tenergy FXes won't solve it. Quite the contrary. Something like Vega Pro might be worth a shot, though.