Feedback on my League games

[blahness]

I actually have a hard time memorizing the serves spin and how I hit the ball. Sometimes I hit the ball perfect and I couldn´t explain you what the incoming spin exactly was other than the sidespin if it had one. I also couldn´t tell you how my stroke looked like. This happens a lot to me except against long backspin balls. There I know how I exactly hit the ball and can mostly tell how much backspin it had (thats why I am more confident against those balls now) But as you can see I rarely get long pushes to my FH. They all start with some sort of sidebackspin or sidetopspin and mostly to my middle or backhand all of them being more long than short.

Once I am in the actual rally in the middistance I feel very comfortable bringing the ball back to the table.

Yes precisely i can tell you are kinda just winging it rather than having a precise read of the ball spin, and then precisely aiming for and brushing a specific point of the ball and in a specific direction (hook, straight or fade) to ride the incoming sidespin. Without doing this it is very difficult to have 80% or better success rates when directly looping long serves. This is why I recommend just having someone serve long to you with 1 particular spin out of the 7 spin types and then you loop it (pushing is illegal in this exercise). You only pass when you can get 80+% success rates with this exercise. Also when you do it correctly it should feel easy to you. After mastering one spin type move to the other, and then ask your partner to mix it up.

Rally balls are not so complicated because they are mostly topspin of various degrees.

 

[blahness]

No, he needs footwork. Like @Zezima said people don't serve or push long to his FH sweet spot very often. It may seem to you it doesn't take much footwork to move to the sweetspot, but he has zero footwork and can't loop anything on the FH side with anything resembling quality unless it comes directly to his sweet spot AND with enough time for him to recognize that it's in his sweespot. That's why he feels like he can loop with so much better quality in practice, yet he rarely does it in games.

Yes footwork is another issue because he doesn't take a lot of mini steps and has no idea of the split step / recovery footwork.

But more importantly, his opponents are serving long to his FH without any consequences. You can't allow that to happen basically.

 

[jk1980]

You are correct, in that example the higher classed opponent nearly never attacks and it seems like he conserves energy because he knows the opponent will make mistakes to grant him the win without much effort.
Your opponent was more attacking, for sure, but if you count all the points awarded to him it still feels like there were 70% unforced errors that gifted him points and only 30% him putting you under pressure. At least that is what my overall impression is. Your opponent was more "cocky" if you wanna call it like that and did not trust you to only gift him points but also gifted you points by sometimes attacking a little more risky which also gifted you points from time to time.

 

[Zezima]

Yes precisely i can tell you are kinda just winging it rather than having a precise read of the ball spin, and then precisely aiming for and brushing a specific point of the ball and in a specific direction (hook, straight or fade) to ride the incoming sidespin. Without doing this it is very difficult to have 80% or better success rates when directly looping long serves. This is why I recommend just having someone serve long to you with 1 particular spin out of the 7 spin types and then you loop it (pushing is illegal in this exercise). You only pass when you can get 80+% success rates with this exercise. Also when you do it correctly it should feel easy to you. After mastering one spin type move to the other, and then ask your partner to mix it up.

Rally balls are not so complicated because they are mostly topspin of various degrees.

Thats a good tip. I never did it per serve type.

So for example against the lefty (Beat) I had to use the fade motion when he served his tomahawk to my FH. I think I sometimes did it if he served closer to the middle (I did it randomly because I didn´t move) and when i had to move to the FH side more I would hit the ball from the right side and go with an upwards motion.

So against these backhand serves from ess I would need to fade aswell but not go too much upwards if its more float or has only light backspin. Did I understand this right?

 

[Zezima]

You are correct, in that example the higher classed opponent nearly never attacks and it seems like he conserves energy because he knows the opponent will make mistakes to grant him the win without much effort.
Your opponent was more attacking, for sure, but if you count all the points awarded to him it still feels like there were 70% unforced errors that gifted him points and only 30% him putting you under pressure. At least that is what my overall impression is. Your opponent was more "cocky" if you wanna call it like that and did not trust you to only gift him points but also gifted you points by sometimes attacking a little more risky which also gifted you points from time to time.

Yes but you can clearly see my opponent works with placement and soft opening ups. Look where all his balls land and when. I never knew if he is gonna play it to my bh or to my fh or middle. Not only that he uses the fade motion a lot to make it even harder for me. The balls also land to a really awkward spot for me where I currently stand. I played in a higher league last season and players there they just beat me because of sheer more quality in their loops and serve return games not directly by placement.

he also hops around like a bunny. If I would move around like that I couldn´t hit a single shot xD I need to stand still ~1sec before I hit the ball

 

[Zezima]

Alright I played even though I was sick. I was just too motivated to play vs them.
I gave my best guys and tried to implement the stuff we talked about.

He didn´t serve long and the few he did I think I did a good job attacking.

 

[Zezima]

All my strokes were too safe (watched a clip before my game that talks about lowering the amount of unforced errors) But they way I play was just too passive.


I will try to work on this aswell.

Even though I looped a lot with my backhand the ratio of explosive shots to "safe" shots is like 90% safe 10% "fast".The stroke has to be shorter (distance wise) and just more acceleration befoer ball contact. And I also need to wait for the ball longer. I missed some because the preparation was fine but I just a tad too early with the stroke.

My Forehand is also not stable at all. Looked quite shiet tbh. Which is weird because in the warmup I do such good topspins with quality and leg hips usage.


Always dropping the bat and even though I try to close the bat I still come from the bottom and then hit the edge.
I could just open the bat more and just turn my hips with the racket slightly above (where the red arrow point is).

He gave me a lot of light backspin balls that I need to kill or atleast loop the first and then kill with the 2nd.


ess1.jpg: He blocks the ball back. And I go all the way down with my racket. Even though I understand the Theory I just don´t have it in my subconsious yet.
Most of my "unforced errors" where I hit the edge or miss the ball comes from wrong starting point always starting too low.

Overall it felt like I couldn´t attack this high blocks/drives even though they were slow just because of this I think. Racket too low and because I have to move up with my racket I probably thought that I would overshoot those balls. Because I have to focus on getting the racket up and then forwards instead of just focusing on the forwards motion if the racket was up in first place. Maybe I thought I don´t have the time aswell.

In Training Drills this doesn´t seem to happen this drastically or it happens but I somehow deal with it?

How can I get rid of this habbit?

Edit1:

I am quite surprised that I have this weird angle when opening up against backspin. The ball does land on the table but my racket angle is inwards after the stroke not sure how to explain. Probably something I got over the years because when I went over the ball it would land in the net and now I tend to move my racket away from the ball. I don´t blame anyone for not understanding what I mean here.


here on a much difficult stroke I tend to go over the ball and the stroke looks good other than my bad body position. While my opp still moves to his backhand before doing the stroke I still stay glued and just move around my upper body and decide for a weak drive ball instead...

 

[NextLevel]

If you develop a real backhand, you can put pressure on the 1700 player's blocking.

Overall it felt like I couldn´t attack this high blocks/drives even though they were slow just because of this I think. Racket too low and because I have to move up with my racket I probably thought that I would overshoot those balls. Because I have to focus on getting the racket up and then forwards instead of just focusing on the forwards motion if the racket was up in first place. Maybe I thought I don´t have the time aswell.

In Training Drills this doesn´t seem to happen this drastically or it happens but I somehow deal with it?

How can I get rid of this habbit?

The high level recommendation is to keep the racket close to the head and use the lower body to adjust the height. That has to be a balancing act with one's skill level. but the principle is helpful so you don't use so much upper arm to play a shot, but learn to strengthen your torso and lower back and thighs so they can support shots better by getting you to the right height to play through the ball. Obviously, for someone as tall as you, a mix needs to be found somewhere.

 

[Zezima]

If you develop a real backhand, you can put pressure on the 1700 player's blocking.

The high level recommendation is to keep the racket close to the head and use the lower body to adjust the height. That has to be a balancing act with one's skill level. but the principle is helpful so you don't use so much upper arm to play a shot, but learn to strengthen your torso and lower back and thighs so they can support shots better by getting you to the right height to play through the ball. Obviously, for someone as tall as you, a mix needs to be found somewhere.

Well it's not per se the weak muscles but just plain wrong stance after the shot. Dropping the racket that much has less to do with weak muscles. I need to get rid of that bad habit.

 

[NetProphet]

My Forehand is also not stable at all. Looked quite shiet tbh. Which is weird because in the warmup I do such good topspins with quality and leg hips usage.

The key difference between match and warm-up is that in warm-up you're in position and the ball enters your sweet spot/strike zone without you having to move.
Match requires footwork before the technique so without better footwork you can't hit the same quality of shots.

He blocks the ball back. And I go all the way down with my racket. Even though I understand the Theory I just don´t have it in my subconsious yet.
Most of my "unforced errors" where I hit the edge or miss the ball comes from wrong starting point always starting too low.

Overall it felt like I couldn´t attack this high blocks/drives even though they were slow just because of this I think. Racket too low and because I have to move up with my racket I probably thought that I would overshoot those balls. Because I have to focus on getting the racket up and then forwards instead of just focusing on the forwards motion if the racket was up in first place. Maybe I thought I don´t have the time aswell.

In Training Drills this doesn´t seem to happen this drastically or it happens but I somehow deal with it?

How can I get rid of this habbit?

I think you have to see this as a return to basics.
If you learn FH drive and FH topspin before you learn Loop V Backspin then one would expect the default to be 'racket up' and the the issue being to remember to drop your racket down for the Loop. I know we're talking about FH but it's quite common on BH side for folk not to lower the racket enough for loop V backspin.

But your default is somehow racket down for all FH topspin shots.
This comes from learning without a coach because as you learn to loop V backspin it's not pointed out and instilled in you to keep the old racket position for topspin V topspin so, because looping V backspin is such a challenge for most at the beginning they spend so much time on it and all topspin can become a low racket situation.
See the FZD video again and the exercise at 2:30 where he does FH V backspin followed by FH V topspin.
It's a good drill for this problem.

But you'll just have to train your drives and topspins remembering to keep yourself low and the racket up (elbow up bit), rotating the hips and swinging forward, and recognise you only drop the racket down for loops V backspin, to start that stroke.

It shouldn't take too long if you train with real focus.

here on a much difficult stroke I tend to go over the ball and the stroke looks good other than my bad body position. While my opp still moves to his backhand before doing the stroke I still stay glued and just move around my upper body and decide for a weak drive ball instead...

Train to only hit backhand with the ball in front of your belly button.
Just get someone to continually block to different places on the backhand side of the table and for every shot you have to move your feet to get behind the ball and if you don't then you stop the drill.
You do NOT hit when reaching.

 

[blahness]

All my strokes were too safe (watched a clip before my game that talks about lowering the amount of unforced errors) But they way I play was just too passive.


I will try to work on this aswell.

Even though I looped a lot with my backhand the ratio of explosive shots to "safe" shots is like 90% safe 10% "fast".The stroke has to be shorter (distance wise) and just more acceleration befoer ball contact. And I also need to wait for the ball longer. I missed some because the preparation was fine but I just a tad too early with the stroke.

My Forehand is also not stable at all. Looked quite shiet tbh. Which is weird because in the warmup I do such good topspins with quality and leg hips usage.


Always dropping the bat and even though I try to close the bat I still come from the bottom and then hit the edge.
I could just open the bat more and just turn my hips with the racket slightly above (where the red arrow point is).

He gave me a lot of light backspin balls that I need to kill or atleast loop the first and then kill with the 2nd.


ess1.jpg: He blocks the ball back. And I go all the way down with my racket. Even though I understand the Theory I just don´t have it in my subconsious yet.
Most of my "unforced errors" where I hit the edge or miss the ball comes from wrong starting point always starting too low.

Overall it felt like I couldn´t attack this high blocks/drives even though they were slow just because of this I think. Racket too low and because I have to move up with my racket I probably thought that I would overshoot those balls. Because I have to focus on getting the racket up and then forwards instead of just focusing on the forwards motion if the racket was up in first place. Maybe I thought I don´t have the time aswell.

In Training Drills this doesn´t seem to happen this drastically or it happens but I somehow deal with it?

How can I get rid of this habbit?

Edit1:

I am quite surprised that I have this weird angle when opening up against backspin. The ball does land on the table but my racket angle is inwards after the stroke not sure how to explain. Probably something I got over the years because when I went over the ball it would land in the net and now I tend to move my racket away from the ball. I don´t blame anyone for not understanding what I mean here.


here on a much difficult stroke I tend to go over the ball and the stroke looks good other than my bad body position. While my opp still moves to his backhand before doing the stroke I still stay glued and just move around my upper body and decide for a weak drive ball instead...

Great job having the mindset of attacking the long serves to the FH! You can see he stopped doing that for free points and started exploiting other weaknesses particularly a tendency to stay too passive.

Imo, on dropping the arm it is far easier to simply not drop the arm at all regardless of incoming ball. Regardless of BH or FH I only go down with the body (not with the arm) when looping against underspin. Then against topspin, I simply don't go down with the body and just go forward over the ball. In terms of aiming i actually aim for the top half of the ball against topspin and bottom half of the ball against underspin, and as long as I made good contact I will make the shot. You simply won't hit the net much if you approach the underspin ball from below it, if it goes out it is just a matter of increasing the spin until it curves back in stably.

With good hip rotation + weight transfer mechanism (you maybe have a bit but it is a little too timid and not 'pure enough' force transfer where the hip rotation directly impacts the ball without your arm getting in the way), you also free up your arm to simply adjust to the incoming ball (not so much as a primary force producer). And it is also much faster in recovery + more explosive.

But to train this you need to let go of the fear of making mistakes particularly during training and try out new stuff.

 

[Zezima]

The key difference between match and warm-up is that in warm-up you're in position and the ball enters your sweet spot/strike zone without you having to move.
Match requires footwork before the technique so without better footwork you can't hit the same quality of shots.

I think you have to see this as a return to basics.
If you learn FH drive and FH topspin before you learn Loop V Backspin then one would expect the default to be 'racket up' and the the issue being to remember to drop your racket down for the Loop. I know we're talking about FH but it's quite common on BH side for folk not to lower the racket enough for loop V backspin.

But your default is somehow racket down for all FH topspin shots.
This comes from learning without a coach because as you learn to loop V backspin it's not pointed out and instilled in you to keep the old racket position for topspin V topspin so, because looping V backspin is such a challenge for most at the beginning they spend so much time on it and all topspin can become a low racket situation.
See the FZD video again and the exercise at 2:30 where he does FH V backspin followed by FH V topspin.
It's a good drill for this problem.

But you'll just have to train your drives and topspins remembering to keep yourself low and the racket up (elbow up bit), rotating the hips and swinging forward, and recognise you only drop the racket down for loops V backspin, to start that stroke.

It shouldn't take too long if you train with real focus.


Train to only hit backhand with the ball in front of your belly button.
Just get someone to continually block to different places on the backhand side of the table and for every shot you have to move your feet to get behind the ball and if you don't then you stop the drill.
You do NOT hit when reaching.

Good points. Yeah I was struggling and practising way more against long backspin balls. Especially against those where I knew the placement aka I serve they push to Fh always or BH always and my big focus would be looping the first. Usuall because their block was weak I got more opening loops in and barely any against a block after.

Yeah will focus on those exercises. I really need to get it out of the system. I seem to get barely any heavy push balls and he light pushes I can still loop more forwards anyway. In the game it looked like I have to loop upwards(vs Alexander) but when I watch the video he was just float pushing back mostly.

But FZD Fh stroke looks completely different to mine. Mine looks closer to someone like Ovtcharov who end the stroke like a soldiers greeting while FZD and ma longs stroke end the stroke with the racket point showing diagonal top and not so closed. They also hit way more open. They also start at the very bottom and extracted arms but against topspin or block they correct it go back up with the starting height and then loop from there. But they are fast and don't have to think about it anymore.

 

[Zezima]

Great job having the mindset of attacking the long serves to the FH! You can see he stopped doing that for free points and started exploiting other weaknesses particularly a tendency to stay too passive.

Imo, on dropping the arm it is far easier to simply not drop the arm at all regardless of incoming ball. Regardless of BH or FH I only go down with the body (not with the arm) when looping against underspin. Then against topspin, I simply don't go down with the body and just go forward over the ball. In terms of aiming i actually aim for the top half of the ball against topspin and bottom half of the ball against underspin, and as long as I made good contact I will make the shot. You simply won't hit the net much if you approach the underspin ball from below it, if it goes out it is just a matter of increasing the spin until it curves back in stably.

With good hip rotation + weight transfer mechanism (you maybe have a bit but it is a little too timid and not 'pure enough' force transfer where the hip rotation directly impacts the ball without your arm getting in the way), you also free up your arm to simply adjust to the incoming ball (not so much as a primary force producer). And it is also much faster in recovery + more explosive.

But to train this you need to let go of the fear of making mistakes particularly during training and try out new stuff.

Yeah but currently I am confused who to look up to especially for the Fh stroke.
I dont think it's beneficial for me to try and copy Ma longs or FZD or any other Chinese players FH stroke that looks like theirs.

I also need to understand and get used to applying different kind of spin and and speed against those block balls. Right now I just have a slow drive where I don't apply much spin or I go all out coming from way down below. That's holding me back a lot.
I would focus on that first before focusing on my hips or anything since I think I do use it in the shot. I know that because back then my arm would get tired because I would only hit with it now it doesn't.

It's less the fear but more like training different kind of balls and not being able to memorise how I hit it succesful.

It's like I let the randomness decide. When I hit good balls in the beginning I keep that performance for the entire trainingsession. When I start hitting bad or it takes a while that training session I have a hard time with consistency

 

[kingkimchi]

Hello guys,
I have been busy trying to find different trainingspartner lately to improve my game (in my club its hard ).

1)
Currently I feel like my opening loops is good.
a) Loop to Block mistake <-- Big Problem. I slowed it down and I seem to hit it at 2 o´clock. To me it sounds fine. yes 1 o clock would be better but also I see pro players hit a countertopspin at 2 o clock how do they do it?

Basically I force my opponent to block me the ball back but I can´t hit the next ball hard with spin because it flys over the table. Do I have to contact the ball more thinly?

b) Another mistake trying to spin the ball
How can I hit these balls "harder" without it going out? I have enough time


2)
a) Countertopspin mistake
I don´t understand this at all. Sometimes I make it and it´s an instant point winner and sometimes like this it just goes into the net even though my stroke goes forwards (and hips rotate)
b) Good example where it worked - but it looks almost the same. I just need to understand better why it worked here and it didnt work there( 2a) ).

3) Another mistake trying to go hard on a ball I want to end
How do Pros hit those balls(at the end) with a more open racket even? and bring it back on table even.


Highlight of the day:
Here I feel like it only worked because I attacked from mid distance.
vs Noah 1st Set


I think my mistakes are repetitive. I feel like I am still moving very bad towards my "wide" forehand and push a lot of balls with my FH that I should open up instead.
I liked my backhand a lot and the fact that I open up with it a lot without being scared. Not many mistakes opening up either.
Seem to struggle alot vs block balls.

What are your thoughts? Here is the link for all 3 games:
Feel free to suggest me Drills (started with Falkenberg last week) or any other Drills and especially how to fix those "stupid" mistakes I keep doing especially after I force my opponent to block.
All 3 games

Hello guys,
I have been busy trying to find different trainingspartner lately to improve my game (in my club its hard ).

1)
Currently I feel like my opening loops is good.
a) Loop to Block mistake <-- Big Problem. I slowed it down and I seem to hit it at 2 o´clock. To me it sounds fine. yes 1 o clock would be better but also I see pro players hit a countertopspin at 2 o clock how do they do it?

Basically I force my opponent to block me the ball back but I can´t hit the next ball hard with spin because it flys over the table. Do I have to contact the ball more thinly?

b) Another mistake trying to spin the ball
How can I hit these balls "harder" without it going out? I have enough time


2)
a) Countertopspin mistake
I don´t understand this at all. Sometimes I make it and it´s an instant point winner and sometimes like this it just goes into the net even though my stroke goes forwards (and hips rotate)
b) Good example where it worked - but it looks almost the same. I just need to understand better why it worked here and it didnt work there( 2a) ).

3) Another mistake trying to go hard on a ball I want to end
How do Pros hit those balls(at the end) with a more open racket even? and bring it back on table even.


Highlight of the day:
Here I feel like it only worked because I attacked from mid distance.
vs Noah 1st Set


I think my mistakes are repetitive. I feel like I am still moving very bad towards my "wide" forehand and push a lot of balls with my FH that I should open up instead.
I liked my backhand a lot and the fact that I open up with it a lot without being scared. Not many mistakes opening up either.
Seem to struggle alot vs block balls.

What are your thoughts? Here is the link for all 3 games:
Feel free to suggest me Drills (started with Falkenberg last week) or any other Drills and especially how to fix those "stupid" mistakes I keep doing especially after I force my opponent to block.
All 3 games

Hi, I have trained with the Guangdong Provincial Team (the juniors, I'm not Lin Gaoyuan's bunch) and I have been under their guidance for 4 years now. So I guess you could call me an expert on the Chinese Playing style (2 o 'clock crazy openings at crazy angles as you pointed out seeing the "pros" do). Your first 2 clips (A and B) were of the same problem. Your opponent blocked your shot by PUSHING your ball DOWN back to your side, therefore partly neutralizing the spin, but still keeping it a light topspin. You read the spin wrong and spun upwards way too much, if your opponent had returned you shot with quality (a little flick with forearm pushing out) then your return would be of no problem, but in this light topspin circumstance, it was too much, therefore going out. Also a bit of feedback on your backhand loop motion: your wrist is too loose, so you often have trouble controlling/pinpointing the amount of spin you put on the ball, try using your forearm and wrist as a complete movement, and remember to lock your rest to finish the stroke at the end. The third clip: the forehand counterspin attempt that went into the net: I saw you bring your entire arm back and loosen your wrist for more power, this caused your to not be controlled of the return, and you rubbed the upper area of the ball too much, try hit-brush it downwards as that was a high ball, you need to stabilize that wrist of yours: it's flying everywhere! The countertopspin you did manage to win was because you stabilized your wrist, beautiful stroke, whole body cooperation, and you hit-brushed with a more open racket angle: fantastic! On clip 3, you looped twice and he returned both. After your underspin loop, your arm kep falling way too low to your side after completing the stroke, this is not a good position reset habit. So with the arm way too low and you needing to bring it back up again, this wastes time and sacrifices power. So where you hit it out was: you rushed in, barely whippin your lowered arm to hit the ball, you stepped in with your feet way too big a step-in, and to the end of your stroke, because you were so rushed, your elbow spiked upwards, causing an arm imbalance, funking up the shot, so it went out. The root of this issue is your arm drooping down after looping. Im not telling you to keep your arm 90 degrees attacked to your waistline every time, its just that your arm is too, too low. A bit of drop for power and spin is done by the pros, but they can bring it back up very quick, and even theirs are not as low as yours. Hope this helps!

 

[dingyibvs]

Yeah but currently I am confused who to look up to especially for the Fh stroke.
I dont think it's beneficial for me to try and copy Ma longs or FZD or any other Chinese players FH stroke that looks like theirs.

I also need to understand and get used to applying different kind of spin and and speed against those block balls. Right now I just have a slow drive where I don't apply much spin or I go all out coming from way down below. That's holding me back a lot.
I would focus on that first before focusing on my hips or anything since I think I do use it in the shot. I know that because back then my arm would get tired because I would only hit with it now it doesn't.

It's less the fear but more like training different kind of balls and not being able to memorise how I hit it succesful.

It's like I let the randomness decide. When I hit good balls in the beginning I keep that performance for the entire trainingsession. When I start hitting bad or it takes a while that training session I have a hard time with consistency

I've been doing a lot of FH training the past couple of months, tinkering with every aspect of it. I had similar issues as you, but for me I was more wondering if I should try to copy Ma Long's form or FZD's form. In the end, I came to the realization that it actually doesn't really matter. You know why ML, FZD, Ovtcharov, etc. can all hit great FHs with what appears to be very different forms? Because the things we amateurs often focus on, like where the racket angle, where it starts, where it finishes, etc. don't actually matter.

What we should be focusing in is actually what's SIMILAR between those great players, what stays the same between their outwardly rather different FHs. Because those are the things that make for a great stroke. Beyond that, everything else is minor, and you can do whatever you feel works for you.

 

[Zezima]

Hi, I have trained with the Guangdong Provincial Team (the juniors, I'm not Lin Gaoyuan's bunch) and I have been under their guidance for 4 years now. So I guess you could call me an expert on the Chinese Playing style (2 o 'clock crazy openings at crazy angles as you pointed out seeing the "pros" do). Your first 2 clips (A and B) were of the same problem. Your opponent blocked your shot by PUSHING your ball DOWN back to your side, therefore partly neutralizing the spin, but still keeping it a light topspin. You read the spin wrong and spun upwards way too much, if your opponent had returned you shot with quality (a little flick with forearm pushing out) then your return would be of no problem, but in this light topspin circumstance, it was too much, therefore going out. Also a bit of feedback on your backhand loop motion: your wrist is too loose, so you often have trouble controlling/pinpointing the amount of spin you put on the ball, try using your forearm and wrist as a complete movement, and remember to lock your rest to finish the stroke at the end. The third clip: the forehand counterspin attempt that went into the net: I saw you bring your entire arm back and loosen your wrist for more power, this caused your to not be controlled of the return, and you rubbed the upper area of the ball too much, try hit-brush it downwards as that was a high ball, you need to stabilize that wrist of yours: it's flying everywhere! The countertopspin you did manage to win was because you stabilized your wrist, beautiful stroke, whole body cooperation, and you hit-brushed with a more open racket angle: fantastic! On clip 3, you looped twice and he returned both. After your underspin loop, your arm kep falling way too low to your side after completing the stroke, this is not a good position reset habit. So with the arm way too low and you needing to bring it back up again, this wastes time and sacrifices power. So where you hit it out was: you rushed in, barely whippin your lowered arm to hit the ball, you stepped in with your feet way too big a step-in, and to the end of your stroke, because you were so rushed, your elbow spiked upwards, causing an arm imbalance, funking up the shot, so it went out. The root of this issue is your arm drooping down after looping. Im not telling you to keep your arm 90 degrees attacked to your waistline every time, its just that your arm is too, too low. A bit of drop for power and spin is done by the pros, but they can bring it back up very quick, and even theirs are not as low as yours. Hope this helps!

Hey thanks for the feedback. Yeah that's what I figured out aswell after watching my games from 2 days ago. Check my post #167 for reference.

I want to work on this issue now. But on top of that I still seem to not understand quite how to hit the ball effectively. I always try to brush the ball. Because having the arm going so low again I keep brushing upwards. I don't really go like oh this ball is high I want to hit more. That's why my topspins are slow I guess? Unless some rare balls where I accidently hit without brushing even though I meant to brush it.

I also feel like hitting the ball more would cause me too much trouble because my recover is so bad. But again that should be better once I stop lowering the racket.

So right now I got the Fh topspin down in terms of control (drills). But when the right comes I would like to hit a unreturnable forehand and for that I need to understand how to hit the ball better.

How would that look like with a shorter stroke compared to what FZD and Ma long is doing? Is there a good slow mo video I can try to mimic the fh stroke?

As for my Backhand your explanation was so detailed that I am not sure if I got it right. For the backhand stroke you should be using the wrist a lot to spin the ball but I am too loose you say? Not sure if I can find the balance between not too stiff but not too loose either. Can you watch a video in my post #167 and show me an example in the video with a timestamp maybe?
I agree though that if I go for a harder backhand I do struggle not to overshoot the ball. I thought that's just because of the racket starting too low again.

Then I would like to work on those 2 for now.

 

[Zezima]

I've been doing a lot of FH training the past couple of months, tinkering with every aspect of it. I had similar issues as you, but for me I was more wondering if I should try to copy Ma Long's form or FZD's form. In the end, I came to the realization that it actually doesn't really matter. You know why ML, FZD, Ovtcharov, etc. can all hit great FHs with what appears to be very different forms? Because the things we amateurs often focus on, like where the racket angle, where it starts, where it finishes, etc. don't actually matter.

What we should be focusing in is actually what's SIMILAR between those great players, what stays the same between their outwardly rather different FHs. Because those are the things that make for a great stroke. Beyond that, everything else is minor, and you can do whatever you feel works for you.

I actually didn't see much difference between ma long and FZD from what I remember. Maybe ML has less wiggly movement before hitting other than that it looked almost identical to me. While Ovtcharovs look much different. They go from open and end with a closed racket angle.

Even Alexander N. Hit some nasty topspins against me. I dont think I landed a single Fh Topspin like him. That's just sad.

 

[NetProphet]

I actually didn't see much difference between ma long and FZD from what I remember. Maybe ML has less wiggly movement before hitting other than that it looked almost identical to me. While Ovtcharovs look much different. They go from open and end with a closed racket angle.

Even Alexander N. Hit some nasty topspins against me. I dont think I landed a single Fh Topspin like him. That's just sad.

I think the main point is to start hitting through the ball rather than just brushing it, brushing is for loos V backspin.
Topspin power comes from your fwd movement which, along with the more fwd stroke, is also assisted by the rotation of the hips.
No matter what pro you decide to analyse you will see these commonalities.
I just posted the FZD video as it's a good visual demonstration of the differing swing trajectories.
Once you start to try it you will feel the difference and see the difference in the outcome of your shots.
After that (and especially if you have no coaching) it's about settling on what works for you.
Video some of your training drills and use them to highlight what you've done well and less well, and feed the that into the next session.

 

[dingyibvs]

I actually didn't see much difference between ma long and FZD from what I remember. Maybe ML has less wiggly movement before hitting other than that it looked almost identical to me. While Ovtcharovs look much different. They go from open and end with a closed racket angle.

Even Alexander N. Hit some nasty topspins against me. I dont think I landed a single Fh Topspin like him. That's just sad.

There isn't much difference between any of them. My advice is just don't focus on anything from the shoulder onward, focus on everything that comes before. Get your feet, hip, and waist placed and moving the right way, keep your arm relaxed and swing it with your lower body. How these pros practice is just a "standard form", once in real games their form are all even outwardly pretty similar, because there's really only one way to hit the ball. Different racket angles and stuff are used in different situations, and you don't really need to pay too much attention to which situation to use what, your brain will figure it out as it's not important. Look at this video for example, you can see Ovtcharov using the more closed-to-open stroke in his 1st loop at 0-0, then again attempt it at 1-1 on a miss:

 

[Zezima]

I think the main point is to start hitting through the ball rather than just brushing it, brushing is for loos V backspin.
Topspin power comes from your fwd movement which, along with the more fwd stroke, is also assisted by the rotation of the hips.
No matter what pro you decide to analyse you will see these commonalities.
I just posted the FZD video as it's a good visual demonstration of the differing swing trajectories.
Once you start to try it you will feel the difference and see the difference in the outcome of your shots.
After that (and especially if you have no coaching) it's about settling on what works for you.
Video some of your training drills and use them to highlight what you've done well and less well, and feed the that into the next session.

I think I had bad experience with going forwards. Because the balls just fly out. But maybe I did it fundamentally wrong since I have the racket so low in so many shots?

You are right I need to film my training session aswell and not just matches. If I can find someone I will try that Drill where I hit more and go more forwards and see what comes out. Because it´s been painful lately that I always brush up on a block/float ball.
Getting a bad habit out of the System is much harder than learning a new stroke. Especially without a coach correcting you at all times.