WTT Champions Incheon 2025 - 1-6 Apr 2025

[zeio]

2-4 same result

Doesn't matter who played better. They both lost in the end. Not even the scores matter, as otherwise Hayata would take the cake.

1 H2H 2 Harimoto
2025 WTT CS Incheon SF 4-2 (4, -5, 5, 7, -5, 6)
2024 ATTC WS QF 1-3 (-13, 6, -8, -11)
2024 WTT CS Macao QF 1-3 (6, -7, -7, -5)

7 H2H 1 Hirano
2024 WTT F QF 3-0 (3, 8, 5)
2024 ATTC WT F 1-3 (-9, 10, -10, -4)
2024 WTT CS Macao R32 3-0 (5, 8, 7)
2023 ATTC WS R16 3-0 (4, 9, 6)
2021 WTT CF R16 3-0 (6, 7, 8)
2019 Czech Open F 4-3 (5, 8, 7, -8, -12, -8, 8)
2019 Bulgarian Open R16 4-0 (9, 5, 3, 9)
2017 Swedish Open R32 4-1 (-6, 8, 4, 7, 8)

8 H2H 1 Ito
2025 WTT CS Incheon 4-2 (-6, 9, 7, -6, 9, 9)
2025 Asian Cup QF 4-1 (9, 6, -8, 6, 6)
2023 ATTC WT SF 3-0 (6, 4, 3)
2022 WTT CS Macao SF 4-1 (-7, 5, 4, 11, 8)
2019 Czech Open R16 4-2 (10, -9, -8, 7, 1, 6)
2019 Bulgarian Open SF 4-3 (-6, 4, 7, -9, -9, 6, 7)
2018 Japan Open SF 3-4 (8, 9, 6, -9, -9, -7, -7)
2017 WTGF QF 4-1 (8, -8, 6, 8, 6)
2012 Asian Junior & Cadet Championships CGS QF 3-0

3 H2H 0 Hayata
2025 Asian Cup R16 3-2 (-9, -10, 5, 4, 8)
2025 SGP GS QF 4-3 (9, -9, -8, 9, 8, -8, 4)
2019 German Open R32 4-3 (-9, 5, -6, 4, 10, -6, 8)

3 H2H 0 Kihara
2024 WTT CT Taiyuan SF 3-0 (4, 6, 1)
2023 WTT SCT Lanzhou QF 3-2 (-9, 2, 4, -5, -6)
2023 WTT CS Xinxiang R32 3-0 (4, 8, 8)

1 H2H 0 Odo
2024 WTT CS Frankfurt QF 3-1 (-11, 6, 9, 6)

1 H2H 0 Nagasaki
2018 Japan Open R32 4-1 (6, 4, 10, -9, 7)

0 H2H 0 Yokoi

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Doesn't matter who played better. They both lost in the end. Not even the scores matter, as otherwise Hayata would take the cake.

1 H2H 2 Harimoto
2025 WTT CS Incheon SF 4-2 (4, -5, 5, 7, -5, 6)
2024 ATTC WS QF 1-3 (-13, 6, -8, -11)
2024 WTT CS Macao QF 1-3 (6, -7, -7, -5)

7 H2H 1 Hirano
2024 WTT F QF 3-0 (3, 8, 5)
2024 ATTC WT F 1-3 (-9, 10, -10, -4)
2024 WTT CS Macao R32 3-0 (5, 8, 7)
2023 ATTC WS R16 3-0 (4, 9, 6)
2021 WTT CF R16 3-0 (6, 7, 8)
2019 Czech Open F 4-3 (5, 8, 7, -8, -12, -8, 8)
2019 Bulgarian Open R16 4-0 (9, 5, 3, 9)
2017 Swedish Open R32 4-1 (-6, 8, 4, 7, 8)

8 H2H 1 Ito
2025 WTT CS Incheon 4-2 (-6, 9, 7, -6, 9, 9)
2025 Asian Cup QF 4-1 (9, 6, -8, 6, 6)
2023 ATTC WT SF 3-0 (6, 4, 3)
2022 WTT CS Macao SF 4-1 (-7, 5, 4, 11, 8)
2019 Czech Open R16 4-2 (10, -9, -8, 7, 1, 6)
2019 Bulgarian Open SF 4-3 (-6, 4, 7, -9, -9, 6, 7)
2018 Japan Open SF 3-4 (8, 9, 6, -9, -9, -7, -7)
2017 WTGF QF 4-1 (8, -8, 6, 8, 6)
2012 Asian Junior & Cadet Championships CGS QF 3-0

3 H2H 0 Hayata
2025 Asian Cup R16 3-2 (-9, -10, 5, 4, 8)
2025 SGP GS QF 4-3 (9, -9, -8, 9, 8, -8, 4)
2019 German Open R32 4-3 (-9, 5, -6, 4, 10, -6, 8)

3 H2H 0 Kihara
2024 WTT CT Taiyuan SF 3-0 (4, 6, 1)
2023 WTT SCT Lanzhou QF 3-2 (-9, 2, 4, -5, -6)
2023 WTT CS Xinxiang R32 3-0 (4, 8, 8)

1 H2H 0 Odo
2024 WTT CS Frankfurt QF 3-1 (-11, 6, 9, 6)

1 H2H 0 Nagasaki
2018 Japan Open R32 4-1 (6, 4, 10, -9, 7)

0 H2H 0 Yokoi

Yokoi has the best record !

 

[Janard]

What the? How did CXT lose when 10-6 up in decider. Da hell.

 

[NetProphet]

Oh Chen Xingtong 🤦🏻‍♀️

 

[NetProphet]

What the? How did CXT lose when 10-6 up in decider. Da hell.

Played too safe is my evaluation. Had 4 points to go for it but it was WY who pulled out the big shots.
You gotta go for it, not wait for the opponent to miss 🤷‍♂️

 

[SFF_lib]

After beating LGY, Lee's performance just plummetted. He lost 19 points in a row.

Oh well at least the WS final was entertaining.

Skip MS final it will be done in 15min.

 

[dingyibvs]

Jesus that was 2 ugly sets by LSS. He looks tired, the shots that require a lot of quick up and down movements by the legs he's straight missing.

 

[dingyibvs]

My gosh that was domination. I've never seen such a lopsided WTT Champions finals. I think the two matches in a day really played into this. LSS looked tired, was slow, while the much younger XP was unaffected. XP is also using new equipment, which while probably suits his game much better he probably still isn't fully comfortable with it. When I use new equipment, I sometimes feel at the end of a training session that I'm fully used to it, but then next session it would feel uncomfortable again at the beginning. Playing 2 matches in a day probably allowed him to carry the comfort level from the 1st match to the 2nd, allowing him to play with full confidence and fully realize the benefits of the new setup.

 

[TTLOVE]

Great perfomance from XP.
I think against LYJ he could have lost.
Lee Sang SU did not perform how he did in the semi.

 

[NetProphet]

That was over so quickly I can't decide if XP was just too good or LSS choked... ?
🤷‍♂️

 

[Saiph]

My gosh that was domination. I've never seen such a lopsided WTT Champions finals. I think the two matches in a day really played into this. LSS looked tired, was slow, while the much younger XP was unaffected. XP is also using new equipment, which while probably suits his game much better he probably still isn't fully comfortable with it. When I use new equipment, I sometimes feel at the end of a training session that I'm fully used to it, but then next session it would feel uncomfortable again at the beginning. Playing 2 matches in a day probably allowed him to carry the comfort level from the 1st match to the 2nd, allowing him to play with full confidence and fully realize the benefits of the new setup.

Yeah I noticed XP's blade wasn't the AcB black handle. Was it W968? I couldn't really see.

 

[NetProphet]

My gosh that was domination. I've never seen such a lopsided WTT Champions finals. I think the two matches in a day really played into this. LSS looked tired, was slow, while the much younger XP was unaffected. XP is also using new equipment, which while probably suits his game much better he probably still isn't fully comfortable with it. When I use new equipment, I sometimes feel at the end of a training session that I'm fully used to it, but then next session it would feel uncomfortable again at the beginning. Playing 2 matches in a day probably allowed him to carry the comfort level from the 1st match to the 2nd, allowing him to play with full confidence and fully realize the benefits of the new setup.

A lot of probablys and maybes in there but I guess there's an unlimited no of possible explanations.
I don't think the 2 matches in 1 day would be too much of a factor, LSS is supremely fit.
I'm still unsure what it was but it does seem that XP was just too good today, even if LSD had reached his level of yesterday I'm not sure it would have been enough...

XP also dismantled Woojin, Calderamno and Franzisca and carried right on going when crunch time arrived.
A truly impressive week from the young man 👏

 

[dingyibvs]

Yeah I noticed XP's blade wasn't the AcB black handle. Was it W968? I couldn't really see.

Yes, W968, I think the rubbers are the same though could've changed hardness. It's got a very high throw so could take some time to get used to on the BH side in particular due to the shorter trajectory of BH shots. You saw a lot of overshoots on earlier rounds, but by the LSS game he was counterlooping with it which I don't believe he did even with the acB.

 

[dingyibvs]

A lot of probablys and maybes in there but I guess there's an unlimited no of possible explanations.
I don't think the 2 matches in 1 day would be too much of a factor, LSS is supremely fit.
I'm still unsure what it was but it does seem that XP was just too good today, even if LSD had reached his level of yesterday I'm not sure it would have been enough...

XP also dismantled Woojin, Calderamno and Franzisca and carried right on going when crunch time arrived.
A truly impressive week from the young man 👏

The reason I felt fatigue was an issue is because the type of shots LSS missed more than an usual amount of, such as the pivot to loop a half-long push, or the FH flick. Those shots require a quick movement and then immediately full stability and then a delicate explosion. In practice I find those shots to be very tiring as the stop-and-go nature of those shots make them a lot more taxing on the leg muscles than shots that you can do in one fluid movement even if they require more power e.g. the cross over step loop to cover the wide FH, which is more cardiovascularly taxing but not as much on the muscles.

 

[NetProphet]

The reason I felt fatigue was an issue is because the type of shots LSS missed more than an usual amount of, such as the pivot to loop a half-long push, or the FH flick. Those shots require a quick movement and then immediately full stability and then a delicate explosion. In practice I find those shots to be very tiring as the stop-and-go nature of those shots make them a lot more taxing on the leg muscles than shots that you can do in one fluid movement even if they require more power e.g. the cross over step loop to cover the wide FH, which is more cardiovascularly taxing but not as much on the muscles.

I'll be watching the match again tonight so I will keep an eye out for that 👍
I thought he looked tense and assumed it was the pressure causing his issues early on but it also felt like a return to recent form as the game unfolded; LSS a good performance/result followed by a not so good one.
Losing to XP is obviously non disgrace but winning only 15 points in 4 games is a bit of an embarrassment in front of his home crowd.
I feel bad for him because he had a brilliant week up to now.

 

[piligrim]

Very happy for Xiang Peng. He deserves it!

 

[Shine]

Tongtong can't attack to save her life, too focused on stability, God knows if she'd ever win a Champions event.

 

[NetProphet]

LSS is actually comparable to the top chinese when he's on. Either that or FZD, ML, were never that good.

Comparable how?
You say when "he's on". So like twice a year for a few years way back he played so unbelievably well as to earn comparison, for a few minutes?
Then most of the 6-20 rank players are comparable to them also because they can all play unbelievably well on their day.
And that being the case I can't see how your statement carries any weight cos if they're all comparable to ML and FZD then please tell me how you differentiate.

Because for me, pulling out a few maverick results in 16 years does not make you comparable to two of the greatest players of all time.

LSS has never had the ability to win consistently. Winning consistently is what makes the great who they are. Good days, bad days, strong opponent, weak opponent, feeling good feeling bad they find a way in the heat of battle to get it done and that's what you need to accumulate titles.

I agree is LSS is a good player, is playing well at the moment etc but comparable to FZD and ML, absolutely not.

And given the people who have liked that statement I have to wonder what's going on.
Am I really crazy to think my questioning of LSS as a threat to top Chinese players is legitimate when people in here with actual table tennis knowledge think comparing him to FZD and ML is warranted.....
If you took all of LSSs best days and put them together into one week he still couldn't beat ML or FZD to a title.
Cos if he could have he'd have down it by now at least once.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Lee Sang SU did not perform how he did in the semi.

yep, table tennis is harsh
need to keep that momentum and form throughout the competition
over peak too early, would have difficult to keep the momentum

and they do well in one, and few days later fail in the other (like first round).... really tough

 

[ThePongCommenter]

When did he beat Shinozuka?

I was mistaken - Shinozuka ended up completing the comeback down 0-2 a few weeks ago in Chongqing.