I've trained with 20+ top coaches in the world and I still suck :) - AMA

[size12font]

Hi,

People on Reddit sound this interesting so I thought I'd post here too. Trained with many different coaches, across different countries, and attended a ton of camps. Played with WR30 Women and trained with an Olympian coach.

You can read the reddit ama here.

Pasted the post here:

Hi,

I've included a lot links because I want to give a plug to all the coaches I've gotten to train with. I also included a link to my Youtube channel at the bottom if you care to join. If not it's fine, I have 2 followers and this is all a passion project for me.

I've been watching a few channels of people capturing their table tennis journey from 0 to 2000. I tried to do this about 12 years ago and I didn't reach 2000. I had a lot of breaks, moved 4 countries, covid, and had two kids.

I've been playing for about 12 years, started at 33. I might be 1800-1900 if I'm really focused but to be honest I've not competed for awhile. The last official highest rating was 1450 (in Germany) which is 1650-1700 in USATT. That was 6 years or so ago.

I'm not a good player even though I've had so coaches. It's likely cause I started playing so late in life. But anyways it's my passion.

Below are a list of coaches I've trained with. I've traveled the world and met with many coaches. It was one of my hobbies a single dude - travel to train table tennis. I've been so lucky to meet so damn cool people.

Here's my coach list:

Eli Baraty (10+ hours)
https://www.youtube.com/@ebatt8803

Chris Doran (10+ hours)

He Zhi Wen (5 hours)

Qong Ri (2 weeks)
I can't find any videos of her but she was Number 1 in Women's in Italy for 6 years. When I trained with her she was number 30 in the world. This was 10 or so years ago.

Gao Jun, American Olympic Coach and former World Number 1 Women's (couple of Hours)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gao_Jun

Tawny Banh / American Olympian and owner of LATTA (2 hours)
https://latabletennis.com/

Ali from Berlin. Easily one of the top 5 players in Berlin. Plays Bundesliga 3 (10+ hours)
https://www.youtube.com/@tischtennisali2022

Hartmut Lohse.Plays Bundesliga 3. One of the best players in Berlin. (4 hours)

Retired professional Patrick Strahl (owner of Contra store in Berlin) (10+ hours)

Coach of KS AZS AWFiS Balta Gdańsk, Bartosz Gajek. (2 years 4 days a month)

Lucjan Błaszczyk, total legend. Highest ranking WR 20. (Went to his camp for 1 week)
LucjanBłaszczyk.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mH3eFxDhXY

Zhang Xiang Jing head Coach of OTTC / 2709 USATT (4 hours)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyFzLnf2fPc

Rafa, top player in Lisbon. (50+ hours)
https://www.tabletennislisbon.com/

David Diniz, top player in Lisbon. (20+ hours)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHlDxVpTdHI

Portugal's Olympic coach in Tokyo olympics (40+ hours)
https://www.instagram.com/a_v_academy/

Dusseldorf Training camp (Went twice for one week each time)
https://www.borussia-duesseldorf.com/en/tt-school/home

Hennebont Training (1 week camp)
https://pingcenter-gvhtt.com/en/stages

TTCampsHungary (1 week camp)
https://www.ttcampshungary.com/

Kwon Sung Jae / amazing coach in Seoul, Korea. Maybe the best hook service in the world. (1 hour)
https://www.youtube.com/@kwonsungjae

And many more coaches with ratings over 2200 USAT minimum.

My current coach was Lim Jong-hoon's doubles partner in Korea (during Elementary and Middle School) and an unknown player that plays in S-Tier (Korea's National Level) when he was 20 (about 10 years ago).

Anyways, ASK ME ANYTHING.

If find this fun you can subscribe to my channel where I might upload some of the coaching videos. I do this for fun and just upload videos as a diary.

https://www.youtube.com/@JohnnyplaysTableTennis

 

[NDH]

Hey,

Welcome to the forum!

Firstly, I hope you enjoy your YouTube journey - It's not easy posting content, and it'll certainly be interesting to some people!

Secondly, and this is not supposed to take anything away from what you've done (and apologies if I've missed a joke or a point somewhere along the line), but.....Are you surprised?

You say you are an adult starter (started at 33) and have been playing on and off for 12 years?

It looks like you've not had more than a weekend with most of those coaches (was it 1 on 1 or group sessions)?

A lot of the other coaches look like group sessions as well.

I love the idea of this 0 to 2000 USTT journey, and it's interesting for people following along.

But I think your level (from the few videos I've seen), is probably about where I'd expect from someone who has done what you've done.

If they are a natural at the sport, or perhaps have played other racket sports to a high level, then they might be a little better - But you are in no way underachieving based on your experience.

At this point in your journey, what are you hoping to achieve?

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

thanks

we are a bit in the same boat. I've been taking hundreds of hours with coaches, since 2012, almost every week if I could, sometimes twice a week. usually 2 hours to make it more effective. i didn't take records but probably approaching 1000 hours ??? yes its ridiculous given the (lack of) results. I really wanted to improve big but I've accepted a while ago that it is what it is.

The amount of money spent is perhaps shocking but its been spread over many years, and well i don't have a sports car or even any car, i don't wear designer clothes, my wife doesn't need LV or Hermes bags, i don't have a Rolex watch etc... I've enjoyed every minute of all those hours and it is/was still worth it.

I'm a "OB" player. I don't even know if i would beat a younger player of myself (my first club was in 1987 aged 15, for a year, and i started playing more continuously from 1993 in clubs). My technique was much worse (for example, couldn't BH topspin and spin quality was low) and playstyle much more simple (all-FH hitter) but probably I was moving much faster.

I think like you that I would be much stronger if among those 1000 hours i just spent 20% or even 10% just practicing serves which i didn't... I would also be stronger if i started taking lessons much younger. in my club in France there were no real coaches and in Japan for a long time, i played without any coach too.

I've used many pro coaches over the years, the first coach in UK, Chris Beckley (hi !) still coaching there in London. then in Japan, Muraji (ex-junior JNT member) from Youtube Lili channel had a school a decade ago, a young Yuji (famous Youtuber) was coaching there among many others whom i also took lessons from.

Lili closed [probably because it wasn't profitable] then i went to Upty, ran by Ryusuke Sakamoto, ex-JNT member for a couple years before he joined TT Saitama. He now is coaching Sakura Yokoi and Satsuki Odo (he also used to coach Kenta Matsudaira). I also took some lessons from other coaches there when he wasn't available.

Then i took lessons from Hidetoshi Oya (ex-JNT member) for around 4 years until he left for proB in France.
and now i'm with GC Foerster, former Holland national team member and also veteran 40+ world champ.
Took also occasional lessons from many pros like Kenta or little sister Shiho Matsudaira, Asuka Machi...

---
I'm still not giving up on improving, even well into my 50s. I truly believe i play the best TT of my life, and that GC is my best ever coach (Oya the 2nd best). at the moment, I'm spending a lot of time with him on receiving, while i've increased a lot my serving practice, which is more on my own. 3rd ball is where i really want to improve also. One of the great things with GC is we sometimes go to tournaments together so he actually knows how I play in tournament and what i should work on.

Its difficult to improve after years of stagnation and taking bad habits but I believe its possible. Of course coach alone doesn't make miracles, my environment has been improving, I've practicing more and more with stronger teammates plays and players, and playing in higher divisions than before, and i try to stay fit and keep a healthy lifestyle.
---
Id like to ask you, do you still think you can improve and how would you do that ?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

wow
you have trained with a lot of coaches. So it is really difficult to make any recommendations.
All I can say is, table tennis is very technical, and starting later in life, is more difficult to master many of the finer details.
However, I think there should be a way for coaches to help you, based on your conditions and ability to have a chance of improvements.

having coaches for under 30 or 50 hours, to be is not a true reflection.
ie 10 hours, you can't really do or learn much.
But you also spend enough hours with many other coaches.

well, if you want to visit Taiwan, I can see how I can help you.
hopefully, I don't become just another one on the list that can't make you better

good luck!

 

[d3nium]

Too many coaches and not enough EJing 😅

 

[size12font]

Hey,

Welcome to the forum!

Firstly, I hope you enjoy your YouTube journey - It's not easy posting content, and it'll certainly be interesting to some people!

Secondly, and this is not supposed to take anything away from what you've done (and apologies if I've missed a joke or a point somewhere along the line), but.....Are you surprised?

You say you are an adult starter (started at 33) and have been playing on and off for 12 years?

It looks like you've not had more than a weekend with most of those coaches (was it 1 on 1 or group sessions)?

A lot of the other coaches look like group sessions as well.

I love the idea of this 0 to 2000 USTT journey, and it's interesting for people following along.

But I think your level (from the few videos I've seen), is probably about where I'd expect from someone who has done what you've done.

If they are a natural at the sport, or perhaps have played other racket sports to a high level, then they might be a little better - But you are in no way underachieving based on your experience.

At this point in your journey, what are you hoping to achieve?

 

[size12font]

Hey,

Welcome to the forum!

Firstly, I hope you enjoy your YouTube journey - It's not easy posting content, and it'll certainly be interesting to some people!

Secondly, and this is not supposed to take anything away from what you've done (and apologies if I've missed a joke or a point somewhere along the line), but.....Are you surprised?

You say you are an adult starter (started at 33) and have been playing on and off for 12 years?

It looks like you've not had more than a weekend with most of those coaches (was it 1 on 1 or group sessions)?

A lot of the other coaches look like group sessions as well.

I love the idea of this 0 to 2000 USTT journey, and it's interesting for people following along.

But I think your level (from the few videos I've seen), is probably about where I'd expect from someone who has done what you've done.

If they are a natural at the sport, or perhaps have played other racket sports to a high level, then they might be a little better - But you are in no way underachieving based on your experience.

At this point in your journey, what are you hoping to achieve?

No offense and seriously totally reasonable question!
1. I think maybe it's like 10 years? I forgot to be honest cause I'm not 45 -I'm 43 but anywas
2. Most of the sessions were 1on1 except the camps.
3. Strangely I've been pretty intense sessions with coaches for a long period of time.
But here are I think my biggest flaws and why I think I'm way behind

1. Consistency, the first 2 years I played everyday with the longest break being 2 weeks. I had a coach every weekend for 2 hours. I was probably playing at 1200? fairly fast. Most of that was literally playing matches and messing around with friends. I had a consistent training partner my level.

2. I moved to Germany, this is where it ironically gets worst. In germany you can ONLY really play 2 hours a week. Most of the clubs are socially sponsored so your total time in the club is 90 minutes. In the US, it was like a gym, you pay and play all day. My level decreased like crazy because I couldn't keep consistently playing. Eventually I found coaches in Germany and started to train more then got my level up to about 1600 I think. Then I had a coach in Poland for about 3 days a month which help me become really consistent. At this point I actually rebuilt my entire form to use Chinese rubbers.

3. Then Covid and I didn't play one day for 7 months. This completely crippled my growth and made me go way backwards. I eventually started training again and I'd say I was able to get maybe to 1700

4. I had my first kid. No playing another 9 months. Then back to training stayed roughly at 1700.

5. Then....had second kid........well ya......there goes that LOL

6. Moved to Korea 4-5 months found no coaches and found no partners. Only senior citizens to play with. No time as well, getting the kids setup took 4 months alone.

7. Now I've been playing regularly 3 times a week with 1 hour coaching a day. My level has jumped a ton in the last 2 months. I THINK I can probably play at 1850-1900 if I'm completely focused.

So ya to sum it: 6-7 month breaks in between, 2 young kids, and covid will essentially evaporate any progress you have.

 

[size12font]

thanks

we are a bit in the same boat. I've been taking hundreds of hours with coaches, since 2012, almost every week if I could, sometimes twice a week. usually 2 hours to make it more effective. i didn't take records but probably approaching 1000 hours ??? yes its ridiculous given the (lack of) results. I really wanted to improve big but I've accepted a while ago that it is what it is.

The amount of money spent is perhaps shocking but its been spread over many years, and well i don't have a sports car or even any car, i don't wear designer clothes, my wife doesn't need LV or Hermes bags, i don't have a Rolex watch etc... I've enjoyed every minute of all those hours and it is/was still worth it.

I'm a "OB" player. I don't even know if i would beat a younger player of myself (my first club was in 1987 aged 15, for a year, and i started playing more continuously from 1993 in clubs). My technique was much worse (for example, couldn't BH topspin and spin quality was low) and playstyle much more simple (all-FH hitter) but probably I was moving much faster.

I think like you that I would be much stronger if among those 1000 hours i just spent 20% or even 10% just practicing serves which i didn't... I would also be stronger if i started taking lessons much younger. in my club in France there were no real coaches and in Japan for a long time, i played without any coach too.

I've used many pro coaches over the years, the first coach in UK, Chris Beckley (hi !) still coaching there in London. then in Japan, Muraji (ex-junior JNT member) from Youtube Lili channel had a school a decade ago, a young Yuji (famous Youtuber) was coaching there among many others whom i also took lessons from.

Lili closed [probably because it wasn't profitable] then i went to Upty, ran by Ryusuke Sakamoto, ex-JNT member for a couple years before he joined TT Saitama. He now is coaching Sakura Yokoi and Satsuki Odo (he also used to coach Kenta Matsudaira). I also took some lessons from other coaches there when he wasn't available.

Then i took lessons from Hidetoshi Oya (ex-JNT member) for around 4 years until he left for proB in France.
and now i'm with GC Foerster, former Holland national team member and also veteran 40+ world champ.
Took also occasional lessons from many pros like Kenta or little sister Shiho Matsudaira, Asuka Machi...

---
I'm still not giving up on improving, even well into my 50s. I truly believe i play the best TT of my life, and that GC is my best ever coach (Oya the 2nd best). at the moment, I'm spending a lot of time with him on receiving, while i've increased a lot my serving practice, which is more on my own. 3rd ball is where i really want to improve also. One of the great things with GC is we sometimes go to tournaments together so he actually knows how I play in tournament and what i should work on.

Its difficult to improve after years of stagnation and taking bad habits but I believe its possible. Of course coach alone doesn't make miracles, my environment has been improving, I've practicing more and more with stronger teammates plays and players, and playing in higher divisions than before, and i try to stay fit and keep a healthy lifestyle.
---
Id like to ask you, do you still think you can improve and how would you do that ?

OMG, I would love to meet those players!!!! Jealous you get to live in Japan and train with them. I'm thinking of going there this september for 1 year.

maybe we'll play!!?

I can definitely improve, most of my mistakes currently are mental. I normally sleep 4-5 hours cause of my young kids. If get 7 hours and 15 minute warm I play at a completely different level.

 

[size12font]

wow
you have trained with a lot of coaches. So it is really difficult to make any recommendations.
All I can say is, table tennis is very technical, and starting later in life, is more difficult to master many of the finer details.
However, I think there should be a way for coaches to help you, based on your conditions and ability to have a chance of improvements.

having coaches for under 30 or 50 hours, to be is not a true reflection.
ie 10 hours, you can't really do or learn much.
But you also spend enough hours with many other coaches.

well, if you want to visit Taiwan, I can see how I can help you.
hopefully, I don't become just another one on the list that can't make you better

good luck!

I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL. I also trained in Taiwan at Lion's Club. I'll reach out when I visit again!!!

 

[vvk1]

Too many coaches and not enough EJing 😅

Looks like the CJ virus has defeated the EJ virus 🤣

 

[suds79]

Certainly a lot of coaches. I believe you. Where's the footage of your play?

Could be a technique thing of which I'm sure your coaches have helped you there. Could be an athleticism or age thing. Could be a practice time & tournament time thing.

Anyways, I'd encourage you to just enjoy the ride. Can't, or shouldn't, put too much self worth into whatever level you're at in table tennis. I have buddies at club who I feel have gone down this path. It's easy to do. You said you have kids. You're that first among probably many more things I don't know about you rather than your table tennis play.

I kinda had a similar journey to you in a way. Started playing consistently at 30. 46 now. A solid intermediate player but I wouldn't classify really good. This is relative but for me anybody north of USATT 2000 I'd call really good (understanding there are levels far beyond that I get it). I've had thoughts too of "wonder if I could get to X level." but then I come back to reality of "yeah probably but at what cost?" I'm a husband & dad to two kids also. To get to whatever level, I'd just have to commit way more time, money that I'm unwilling to do. So at some point you just have to accept the choices you've made and just enjoy the game. Keep working. Lastly I suspect whatever level someone ever is at, they'd probably always wish they were the next step up. If you were to make 2000 like those journey videos you see, then immediately wish you could hit 2200. Could be wrong but I know for me it'd be that way. So that's a goal that you can just never grasp ultimately.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

2000 is just a random number. whatever ranking you have, you can choose to be frustrated because you want to get 200 extra ranking points but you can't...
or you can choose to be happy just playing TT and trying to be better and enjoy the process

 

[d3nium]

Certainly a lot of coaches. I believe you. Where's the footage of your play?

On his YouTube channel that he linked at the end of his post.

 

[mamedium]

No offense and seriously totally reasonable question!
1. I think maybe it's like 10 years? I forgot to be honest cause I'm not 45 -I'm 43 but anywas
2. Most of the sessions were 1on1 except the camps.
3. Strangely I've been pretty intense sessions with coaches for a long period of time.
But here are I think my biggest flaws and why I think I'm way behind

1. Consistency, the first 2 years I played everyday with the longest break being 2 weeks. I had a coach every weekend for 2 hours. I was probably playing at 1200? fairly fast. Most of that was literally playing matches and messing around with friends. I had a consistent training partner my level.

2. I moved to Germany, this is where it ironically gets worst. In germany you can ONLY really play 2 hours a week. Most of the clubs are socially sponsored so your total time in the club is 90 minutes. In the US, it was like a gym, you pay and play all day. My level decreased like crazy because I couldn't keep consistently playing. Eventually I found coaches in Germany and started to train more then got my level up to about 1600 I think. Then I had a coach in Poland for about 3 days a month which help me become really consistent. At this point I actually rebuilt my entire form to use Chinese rubbers.

3. Then Covid and I didn't play one day for 7 months. This completely crippled my growth and made me go way backwards. I eventually started training again and I'd say I was able to get maybe to 1700

4. I had my first kid. No playing another 9 months. Then back to training stayed roughly at 1700.

5. Then....had second kid........well ya......there goes that LOL

6. Moved to Korea 4-5 months found no coaches and found no partners. Only senior citizens to play with. No time as well, getting the kids setup took 4 months alone.

7. Now I've been playing regularly 3 times a week with 1 hour coaching a day. My level has jumped a ton in the last 2 months. I THINK I can probably play at 1850-1900 if I'm completely focused.

So ya to sum it: 6-7 month breaks in between, 2 young kids, and covid will essentially evaporate any progress you have.

kids... 5 seconds of joy and lifetime stress
just "kidding"!

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

sounds like a fun training journey! subscribed... good luck!

 

[kindof99]

thanks

we are a bit in the same boat. I've been taking hundreds of hours with coaches, since 2012, almost every week if I could, sometimes twice a week. usually 2 hours to make it more effective. i didn't take records but probably approaching 1000 hours ??? yes its ridiculous given the (lack of) results. I really wanted to improve big but I've accepted a while ago that it is what it is.

The amount of money spent is perhaps shocking but its been spread over many years, and well i don't have a sports car or even any car, i don't wear designer clothes, my wife doesn't need LV or Hermes bags, i don't have a Rolex watch etc... I've enjoyed every minute of all those hours and it is/was still worth it.

I'm a "OB" player. I don't even know if i would beat a younger player of myself (my first club was in 1987 aged 15, for a year, and i started playing more continuously from 1993 in clubs). My technique was much worse (for example, couldn't BH topspin and spin quality was low) and playstyle much more simple (all-FH hitter) but probably I was moving much faster.

I think like you that I would be much stronger if among those 1000 hours i just spent 20% or even 10% just practicing serves which i didn't... I would also be stronger if i started taking lessons much younger. in my club in France there were no real coaches and in Japan for a long time, i played without any coach too.

I've used many pro coaches over the years, the first coach in UK, Chris Beckley (hi !) still coaching there in London. then in Japan, Muraji (ex-junior JNT member) from Youtube Lili channel had a school a decade ago, a young Yuji (famous Youtuber) was coaching there among many others whom i also took lessons from.

Lili closed [probably because it wasn't profitable] then i went to Upty, ran by Ryusuke Sakamoto, ex-JNT member for a couple years before he joined TT Saitama. He now is coaching Sakura Yokoi and Satsuki Odo (he also used to coach Kenta Matsudaira). I also took some lessons from other coaches there when he wasn't available.

Then i took lessons from Hidetoshi Oya (ex-JNT member) for around 4 years until he left for proB in France.
and now i'm with GC Foerster, former Holland national team member and also veteran 40+ world champ.
Took also occasional lessons from many pros like Kenta or little sister Shiho Matsudaira, Asuka Machi...

---
I'm still not giving up on improving, even well into my 50s. I truly believe i play the best TT of my life, and that GC is my best ever coach (Oya the 2nd best). at the moment, I'm spending a lot of time with him on receiving, while i've increased a lot my serving practice, which is more on my own. 3rd ball is where i really want to improve also. One of the great things with GC is we sometimes go to tournaments together so he actually knows how I play in tournament and what i should work on.

Its difficult to improve after years of stagnation and taking bad habits but I believe its possible. Of course coach alone doesn't make miracles, my environment has been improving, I've practicing more and more with stronger teammates plays and players, and playing in higher divisions than before, and i try to stay fit and keep a healthy lifestyle.
---
Id like to ask you, do you still think you can improve and how would you do that ?

From what I have observed, most coaches do not help adult amateurs that much. A good coach is not a top notched professional player, but one that can observe your problem and know your personalities to help you improve based on your skills and capabilities. Most coaches do not even bother to correct the fundamentals of adult amateurs' strikes.

 

[kindof99]

ALso, to improve in rating and match results, forehand and backhand strikes are a minor part of the game. Transition, timing, and moving are more important, but not many coaches will teach you that.

 

[Jslick89]

From what I have observed, most coaches do not help adult amateurs that much. A good coach is not a top notched professional player, but one that can observe your problem and know your personalities to help you improve based on your skills and capabilities. Most coaches do not even bother to correct the fundamentals of adult amateurs' strikes.

Totally agree. The best player = / = the best coach always. Coaching is a skill and an art in and of itself. I give a lot of tips to my club mate and he often says i give better, and easier to understand advice than his coach who is 300 rating points higher than me lol .

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

From what I have observed, most coaches do not help adult amateurs that much. A good coach is not a top notched professional player, but one that can observe your problem and know your personalities to help you improve based on your skills and capabilities. Most coaches do not even bother to correct the fundamentals of adult amateurs' strikes.

precisely why my current coaches are good coaches

also with coaching you get what you ask for.
if you don't tell what you want to do, the coach might assume and choose wrong paths for you...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Looks like the CJ virus has defeated the EJ virus 🤣

i think the wise ones has spoken

need to look at golden viscaria
that adds 200 points easily.