Is Chinese TT just going to go downhill from here?

[piligrim]

Well the facts are all open to interpretation through our own individual lens. But they also show that there are more tournaments and medals being shared by more nationalities than there were in the past.

Personally I don't see that China are weaker but that the rest of the world has gotten stronger. I think this is seen by looking at the strength of the field in the men's game - stronger than ever before imo....
And the rest of the world not stronger on the womens side is probably attached to what SFF LIB said about women's participation.
I don't know what clubs are like where everyone else is but around me it's 95% men playing, so few women playing at all.

Would be interesting to see if XX, Wan Hao, Ma Long, ZJK back can they beat everybody again

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I personally played badminton and tt intensely for some years.

I also teach a lot of gen Z on a daily basis.

What I've observed from pickleball, badmin and table tennis:

• Gen Z overall has incredibly short attention span
• Peer pressure and social media status has become more important than ever before

Learning tt is just really really hard for kids.
You hit a bottleneck very often. Each bottleneck takes discipline to overcome. You need to overcome 10 bottlenecks from 0 --> 20

Learning badminton and pickleball (thanks to lack of spin) does not give you that much trouble to go from 0 --> 20.

One of our national team girl got laughed at and bullied because she played tt. She gave up tt at the end.

Each year we had sports club photo shot, most our tt players don't turn up.

I am not entirely sure what it is that gives tt the unpopular image among the gen Z and alpha.

• Could it be, perhaps, I don't know, maybe, I am 100% speculating:
• Kids train six days a week, sweating buckets, sore legs and arm from power-looping.
• Goes to local league for competition, and meet:
• Pot bellied Unkerz & Unteez with heavy make-up using Twiddly pips. Stand on one spot like a coconut tree, does not move at all, does not pivot and just casually block everything with some really weird rubber all the while talking with his / her friends on the side about the prices of vegetables or stock market.
• Kids who train six days a week, sweating buckets, sore legs and arm from power-looping loses, does not understand what the heck happenned and complain to his / her coach who just casually says, train harder, loop harder and have faster foot-work.
• Now you see where I am going? No wonder Gen-Z & alpha are shunning TT.

 

[netdriver]

I personally played badminton and tt intensely for some years.

I also teach a lot of gen Z on a daily basis.

What I've observed from pickleball, badmin and table tennis:

• Gen Z overall has incredibly short attention span
• Peer pressure and social media status has become more important than ever before

Learning tt is just really really hard for kids.
You hit a bottleneck very often. Each bottleneck takes discipline to overcome. You need to overcome 10 bottlenecks from 0 --> 20

Learning badminton and pickleball (thanks to lack of spin) does not give you that much trouble to go from 0 --> 20.

One of our national team girl got laughed at and bullied because she played tt. She gave up tt at the end.

Each year we had sports club photo shot, most our tt players don't turn up.

I am not entirely sure what it is that gives tt the unpopular image among the gen Z and alpha.

pickleball badminton fun

i rmb the time i fooled around with 40mm and 38mm celluloid balls and i find table tennis to be more enjoyable than playing with the 40+ plastic balls

so ig if we want TT to be popular again, changing the specifications of the ball is a good way to start

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

pickleball badminton fun

i rmb the time i fooled around with 40mm and 38mm celluloid balls and i find table tennis to be more enjoyable than playing with the 40+ plastic balls

so ig if we want TT to be popular again, changing the specifications of the ball is a good way to start

while the ball may be a factor, the biggest factor is table tennis technical skills and technique is just far too difficult to master.

I mean, there are kids training 40+ hours a week, and get no where.

If you are musician, or you put those kinds of hours to study (on top top of the educational hours you have in that 40+ hour schedule), you are bound to be above average and even close to being in the masters level.

But in table tennis, 40+ hours is nothing....

 

[SFF_lib]

while the ball may be a factor, the biggest factor is table tennis technical skills and technique is just far too difficult to master.

I mean, there are kids training 40+ hours a week, and get no where.

If you are musician, or you put those kinds of hours to study (on top top of the educational hours you have in that 40+ hour schedule), you are bound to be above average and even close to being in the masters level.

But in table tennis, 40+ hours is nothing....

Yup that's exactly what I meant.

Another unique aspect of table tennis is the cognitive understanding of the game.

This is a generalized claim, but all our national players U18 are top academic. A girl I teach who plays as reserve nationaly, she finished Grade 12 physics in Grade 11.

While this is not always the case, but to master table tennis, you need some level of cognitive ability to analyze and predict the game when facing different playstyle.

 

[Yuomay]

• Could it be, perhaps, I don't know, maybe, I am 100% speculating:
• Kids train six days a week, sweating buckets, sore legs and arm from power-looping.
• Goes to local league for competition, and meet:
• Pot bellied Unkerz & Unteez with heavy make-up using Twiddly pips. Stand on one spot like a coconut tree, does not move at all, does not pivot and just casually block everything with some really weird rubber all the while talking with his / her friends on the side about the prices of vegetables or stock market.
• Kids who train six days a week, sweating buckets, sore legs and arm from power-looping loses, does not understand what the heck happenned and complain to his / her coach who just casually says, train harder, loop harder and have faster foot-work.
• Now you see where I am going? No wonder Gen-Z & alpha are shunning TT.

I’m not GenZ but this surely resonates with me whenever I lose against a grandpa haha.

“Why on the earth do I train so hard”

 

[zeio]

This is indeed a factor. The Chinese government has also reprioritized their investment in sports in recent years, moving away from sole focus from becoming an Olympic medal factory but also focusing on accessibility and infrastructure for all common citizens.

Ever since Xi Jinping (a football/soccer lover) assumed power in late 2012, to be specific. I remember there was a thread over at Chinese forum Table Tennis Homeland back around that time that table tennis was dropped from the top 10 in investment.

Overall, the quality of life for the majority has improved so much and corruption has been toned down significantly in the past decade. He even said 我們不以勝負論英雄/We don't judge heroes by victory or defeat in a speech addressing the athletes after Rio 2016, recognizing those who didn't get gold. Now it's the people that refuse to change...

習近平會見第31屆奧運會中國體育代表團
http://cpc.people.com.cn/BIG5/n1/2016/0825/c64094-28666597.html

 

[XpingpingpongpongX]

WCQ and LSD are just one of the top players. FZD and Ma Long are one tier above everyone else. You don't always get such talent, not even China. Now FZD is bothered by non-ping pong stuff and is somewhat retired from international tournaments, and we can immediately see that it's not Chinese dominance. It's Ma Long and FZD dominance.

But the truth about the Chinese team going downhill is, I heard that the U15 and U19 players have been playing quite poorly in international competitions.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

WCQ and LSD are just one of the top players. FZD and Ma Long are one tier above everyone else. You don't always get such talent, not even China. Now FZD is bothered by non-ping pong stuff and is somewhat retired from international tournaments, and we can immediately see that it's not Chinese dominance. It's Ma Long and FZD dominance.

well, before Ma Long and FZD
there was ZJK
Ma Lin, Wang Hao and Wang Liqin

Ma Long is one tier about FZD, FZD is maybe half a tier about WCQ. Just by saying this, I might have upset a lot of fan girls

But the truth about the Chinese team going downhill is, I heard that the U15 and U19 players have been playing quite poorly in international competitions.

correct, the juniors are not as dominance as before too.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

I think you also have to consider that the competition landscape has changed significantly as well. There are now a total of 11 major events from WTT with 4 Smashes and 6 Champions, WTT Finals, as well as World Champs, World Cup, World Mixed Team Cup. Often we see players going week in and out playing major events and meeting each other far more regularly in competition. With the change to the plastic ball the physicality has changed and being able to sustain that top level for all of the competition is not easy, and I think seeing more upsets in this case will continue to occur. Just my two cents.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

CNT needs to nurture superstars again, for the good of the sport.

Europe is doing a great job in this regard right now, Truls, the Lebruns, even Darko and Anton with the addition of Hugo (not European, but non-Chinese) are crowd-pleasers, on top of being awesome athletes.

Instead of being an escape from poverty, table tennis should be seen as ladder to glory.

To illustrate, here's an old photo of Ma Long and Zhang Jike doing the A-list celeb thing, living it up.

View attachment 37618

The new kids don't have the same star power energy.

Respectfully disagree, WCQ and SYS have literally changed the landscape of the table tennis audience in this generation. People are showing up to table tennis events all over the globe purely to support their favourite players. There are far more people going to table tennis events as fans nowadays that don't even play the game, they are just going to support their players. The audience demographic has shifted to a much younger audience and the fangirls are out in force. I agree that Truls and the Lebruns have been a big step forward, but saying the new kids in China team don't have the same star power energy I think is incorrect. Starting with FZD the newer generation have literally become icons.

 

[Tommy Lee]

This is definitely not the root cause. What you mentioned might have been applicable to China 30 years ago. As is well known, the number of table tennis players in China is enormous, but only the top player (such as national team members) can earn substantial bonuses and advertising endorsement income. The proportion of such players is extremely low. Beyond this level players, other table tennis players do not earn high incomes, and similar earnings could easily be achieved through other professions.

 

[Tommy Lee]

My point is that the problem lies here (This is a summary provided by other guys, I also agree completely) :

Technical Deficiencies
‌Collapse of the Backhand System‌
European players have developed targeted strategies against the Chinese team’s backhand system. For instance, Simon Gauzy used high balls to lure Lin Gaoyuan into making forceful errors, while Dimitrij Ovtcharov employed a deep-table counter-driving tactic to suppress Xiang Peng. Data reveals that Lin Gaoyuan’s error rate in backhand flicks reached 67%, significantly higher than Fan Zhendong’s peak rate of 22%.
‌Decline in Receive-of-Serve Techniques‌
Liang Jingkun made seven receive-of-serve errors in a single match, highlighting issues in spin judgment. European players have exploited variations in spin to break down the traditional receive-of-serve tactics of the Chinese team.
Inadequate Mental Resilience
‌Frequent Errors in Critical Points‌
Lin Gaoyuan made consecutive errors during decisive moments in the final game, while Xiang Peng’s mental composure collapsed against Ovtcharov, leading to a lost advantage and eventual defeat. Younger players often exhibit "formulaic puppet" errors under pressure, as seen in Wen Ruibo’s loss of seven consecutive points while leading in the fourth game.
‌Issues in Coaching Methods‌
Excessive intervention from the coaching team in tactical execution has hindered players’ ability to make independent decisions. For example, Lin Shidong was instructed to adapt to changes in equipment rubber but overlooked tactical innovations.
Outdated Training System
‌Delayed Tactical Updates‌
Despite facing European players’ "close-table fast attacks" and Japanese players’ "holistic advantage," the Chinese team continues to rely on outdated tactics from three years ago. Younger players dedicate 70% of their training to equipment adaptation, leaving little room for tactical innovation.
‌Flaws in Talent Development Pipeline
Young players frequently transition between youth and adult competitions, lacking systematic development. For instance, although 19-year-old Lin Shidong once reached world No. 1, his first-round exit in the World Table Tennis Championships indicates a failure in the training system to ensure effective progression.

 

[zeio]

WCQ and LSD are just one of the top players. FZD and Ma Long are one tier above everyone else. You don't always get such talent, not even China. Now FZD is bothered by non-ping pong stuff and is somewhat retired from international tournaments, and we can immediately see that it's not Chinese dominance. It's Ma Long and FZD dominance.

But the truth about the Chinese team going downhill is, I heard that the U15 and U19 players have been playing quite poorly in international competitions.

You have to compare them at the same age segment to get a true and fair view. ML was losing just as much if not more than LSD at the same age. WLQ, MLin and WH as well. KLH and LGL, too.

Youth development has never been China's strong focus unlike Japan.

 

[Windkanal]

It's the same in every country where sports was an escape into a good future. Look at Germany and football the same thing is happening. Football pitches are empty the new generation is hooked on smartphones not football.

America for me is an exception because they get payed education if they are good at sports. But for most countries wealth equals less good at sports.

just to understand if we are talking about the same thing, since i am from germany. are we talking... football? or soccer. Because tbh football is such a niche sport here and almost noone cares besides very few special snowflakes. i personallt dont kow anyone who is interested in football or plays football. its primarily an american phenomenon. Same as noone in germany is interested in baseball.

 

[M51]

Starting with FZD the newer generation have literally become icons.

I'd like to hear the Chinese perspective on this. I can certainly see how the younger female audience would find Wang Chuqin and Lin GaoYuan appealing (both are cuties, tbh), but...

The others don't exactly have charisma, to put it generously.

 

[Tiz]

I think it's the equipment, in particular most Europeans are using hybrid rubbers now. I don't remember Simon Gauzy playing this good when using the Rasanter R53 for example. Truls apparently used a new rubber, STIGA Helix Platinum according to a post by Stiga on Facebook.

 

[zeio]

I'd like to hear the Chinese perspective on this. I can certainly see how the younger female audience would find Wang Chuqin and Lin GaoYuan appealing (both are cuties, tbh), but...

The others don't exactly have charisma, to put it generously.

You don't even need that. Just watch China Open 2016, ATTC 2017, WTTC 2017 etc.

The current fandom exploded first during Rio 2016. ZJK started it all. ML followed shortly. FZD after that. Then DN, LSW, CM, SYS, WMY. WCQ, LSD are now the latest and greatest...

 

[XpingpingpongpongX]

You have to compare them at the same age segment to get a true and fair view. ML was losing just as much if not more than LSD at the same age. WLQ, MLin and WH as well. KLH and LGL, too.

Youth development has never been China's strong focus unlike Japan.

I was a big fan of Ma Lin and Wang Liqin. But Ma Long and FZD's consistency is just above everyone else. But you are right, LSD is still young and has the very potential to become the next great.

Downhill or not. Hope this sport will get more attention and money worldwide.

 

[M51]

For me, it's Xu Xin. Beautiful style, unparalleled athleticism and...

He was such a cold motherf***.

Remember the "no-no" gesture after eliminating Harimoto in Budapest? I need a gif of that.