Butterfly Zyre 03

[po-stit]

Guys yesterday tried Zyre-03 2.5 with BH using Stiga Infinity VPS is amazing how easy grip the ball, also with the grip you can place the ball wherever you want with a lot of topspin and control, you can lift chop balls easily, I'm still amazed with this rubber.

I think the rubber when new still doesn't have full potential, more time playing with the rubber more better is.

Did you compare it to the 2.7? I'm mainly curious about the arc it produces vs the 2.7.

 

[Tembel]

I see quite a few posts where reviewers state the boost in performance in speed and control when Zyre is put on all wood blade. Are you sure this actually has to do with Zyre or maybe a possibility that maybe you would perform better with also Dignics and Tenergy on all wood? Maybe you have gotten too used to carbon blades and are now really appreciating the control and more easily accessible speed you get from an all wood.

 

[NextLevel]

I see quite a few posts where reviewers state the boost in performance in speed and control when Zyre is put on all wood blade. Are you sure this actually has to do with Zyre or maybe a possibility that maybe you would perform better with also Dignics and Tenergy on all wood? Maybe you have gotten too used to carbon blades and are now really appreciating the control and more easily accessible speed you get from an all wood.

It definitely isn't faster on an all wood blade, not sure anyone ever wrote that. To answer your question, no I wouldn't play better with Dignics on all wood classical 5 ply other than maybe a Mazunov because it holds the ball too long. Tenergy, "maybe", but I left Tenergy because I found it too responsive.

Of course there is a relation to putting a faster rubber on a slower blade in that it gives you more control. But anyone who has used equipment of different speeds knows that it comes with tradeoffs. I would love to use all wood blades but with the plastic ball, anyone who doesn't place a premium on speed will have his own reasons, even Timo admitted that quality spins don't get you the same reward as they used to with the celluloid balls. Speaking for myself, I tried Dignics on a Korbel, which was once my favorite all wood blade. The blocking was just not for me anymore. The effort to get the ball moving consistently would have put extra stress on my shoulder again, I have technical limits for sure. And for me, a carbon blade plays is more consistent when you change it and keep similar weight.

IMHO, people who think blades are too fast or slow for other players, especially players who are already TTR 1600+ or USATT 1900+ should go ahead and show their own matches using these slower blades. It's easy to lecture someone on blade speed without realizing it is a personal preference based on many variables.

 

[merlin el mago]

Did you compare it to the 2.7? I'm mainly curious about the arc it produces vs the 2.7.

The arc depends a lot how you do the tospin, my feeling is no difference or very little, where is different is in speed & control so is more easy to get consistent topspin using 2.5 but not a big difference because teally is only 0.2mm of difference between them.

 

[Tembel]

It definitely isn't faster on an all wood blade, not sure anyone ever wrote that. To answer your question, no I wouldn't play better with Dignics on all wood classical 5 ply other than maybe a Mazunov because it holds the ball too long. Tenergy, "maybe", but I left Tenergy because I found it too responsive.

Of course there is a relation to putting a faster rubber on a slower blade in that it gives you more control. But anyone who has used equipment of different speeds knows that it comes with tradeoffs. I would love to use all wood blades but with the plastic ball, anyone who doesn't place a premium on speed will have his own reasons, even Timo admitted that quality spins don't get you the same reward as they used to with the celluloid balls. Speaking for myself, I tried Dignics on a Korbel, which was once my favorite all wood blade. The blocking was just not for me anymore. The effort to get the ball moving consistently would have put extra stress on my shoulder again, I have technical limits for sure. And for me, a carbon blade plays is more consistent when you change it and keep similar weight.

IMHO, people who think blades are too fast or slow for other players, especially players who are already TTR 1600+ or USATT 1900+ should go ahead and show their own matches using these slower blades. It's easy to lecture someone on blade speed without realizing it is a personal preference based on many variables.

For certain shots a less stiff all wood blade can produce more speed due to flex. But you are right that it comes with drawbacks, such as less stability in blocks, etc ...

 

[NextLevel]

For certain shots a less stiff all wood blade can produce more speed due to flex. But you are right that it comes with drawbacks, such as less stability in blocks, etc ...

Sure, find the pros who are using such blades to produce extra speed and let me know their names. Even Gauzy had to switch and is now getting the best results of his career. Not saying that I am a pro, just testing this logic.

 

[merlin el mago]

I see quite a few posts where reviewers state the boost in performance in speed and control when Zyre is put on all wood blade. Are you sure this actually has to do with Zyre or maybe a possibility that maybe you would perform better with also Dignics and Tenergy on all wood? Maybe you have gotten too used to carbon blades and are now really appreciating the control and more easily accessible speed you get from an all wood.

I'm not perform better using Dignics 05 and worst using T05, same blade (Stiga Infinity VPS) with same BH rubber.

 

[merlin el mago]

For certain shots a less stiff all wood blade can produce more speed due to flex. But you are right that it comes with drawbacks, such as less stability in blocks, etc ...

I feel the same stifness using Infinity VPS like using ALC or similars, the difference is Infinity is way less hard so a lot of more flex than ALC or similars.

 

[merlin el mago]

Sure, find the pros who are using such blades to produce extra speed and let me know their names. Even Gauzy had to switch and is now getting the best results of his career. Not saying that I am a pro, just testing this logic.

Each person have his priorities, watching pros seems 1st priority of all is speed so blade with fibers is the way....

 

[NextLevel]

Each person have his priorities, watching pros seems 1st priority of all is speed so blade with fibers is the way....

Agreed, but he said that all wood is faster on certain shots, I want him to tell me what these shots are and which pros are demonstrating them with all wood blades. People come up with all kinds of interesting claims but they don't think through the implications of what they are saying for practical play.

 

[Tembel]

I am not talking about pro's. And we hardly have any in this forum either. If you are happy with carbon then I am happy for you. I was just asking a question, that possibly implied that some of us probably benefit from using all wood blades.

My personal experience is that I get more power and land the shots deeper for flicks and third ball attack loops vs back spin with a semi fast all-wood blade such as Clipper or Korbel, than I do with Viscaria or Super Viscaria. Flatter hits and blocks though are a different story ...
I have no doubt though that a pro(and maybe some of you non-pro's on this forum), can get more out the carbon even on those shots I refer to...

 

[NextLevel]

I am not talking about pro's. And we hardly have any in this forum either. If you are happy with carbon then I am happy for you. I was just asking a question, that possibly implied that some of us probably benefit from using all wood blades.

My personal experience is that I get more power and land the shots deeper for flicks and third ball attack loops vs back spin with a semi fast all-wood blade such as Clipper or Korbel, than I do with Viscaria or Super Viscaria. Flatter hits and blocks though are a different story ...
I have no doubt though that a pro(and maybe some of you non-pro's on this forum), can get more out the carbon even on those shots I refer to...

Exactly. You know what works best for you. Never having seen you play and not knowing your playing level, if you are an experienced player, I assume you made your choice based on a lot of play and experience. I am pointing out that if what you said was true as a physical phenomenon and not your subjective experience, more professional players would be using all wood blades.

I shouldn't be too righteous, I used to be in the "people are using blades that are too fast club" until I was forced to accept that if I am splitting matches with or losing matches to players who are using those blades, then they chose those blade rubber combinations for a reason. As I discussed elsewhere, when I started using faster blades initially, I did it with slower and/or stickier rubbers. The rubbers I am using now are the fastest I have ever used in recent years. It was at the recommendation of my coach.

Lots of people can get more out of a different set up but there is currently no scientific way to determine it. You might be handicapping yourself using all wood for all you know, maybe there is a better blade rubber combination for you out there, maybe thin carbon or innerforce or even composite without carbon. And seeing you are using Cybershape, maybe that is helping you too, maybe with all wood without Cybershape, you might play worse for all you know. What I do know is that you are not an idiot, and you made your choice after weighing a lot of experiences. This is true for all experienced players with a decent level.

 

[merlin el mago]

Agreed, but he said that all wood is faster on certain shots, I want him to tell me what these shots are and which pros are demonstrating them with all wood blades. People come up with all kinds of interesting claims but they don't think through the implications of what they are saying for practical play.

Can be different reasons to not use fiber blades:
-no have enough skills
-no good fit
-no good footwork
-no mastered low dwell time
-disabled like me

Other reasons:
-blade weight matters a lot (flex, sweep spot, etc)
-rubber matter a lot (weight, grip, hardness, etc)
-so combo blade rubber matter
-all wood flex blade with tacky or stick rubber increase dwell time so can get the speed like Chinese rubbers with low arc that you get the speed through the topspin

If your target is feeling, control and not play far from the table all wood blades have market & sense.

If your target is power, and play far from the table better to use fiber blades.

No magic, no meaningless, is all logical if you know what's your target & how to use the blades and rubbers.

 

[NextLevel]

Can be different reasons to not use fiber blades:
-no have enough skills
-no good fit
-no good footwork
-no mastered low dwell time
-disabled like me

Other reasons:
-blade weight matters a lot (flex, sweep spot, etc)
-rubber matter a lot (weight, grip, hardness, etc)
-so combo blade rubber matter
-all wood flex blade with tacky or stick rubber increase dwell time so can get the speed like Chinese rubbers with low arc that you get the speed through the topspin

If your target is feeling, control and not play far from the table all wood blades have market & sense.

If your target is power, and play far from the table better to use fiber blades.

No magic, no meaningless, is all logical if you know what's your target & how to use the blades and rubbers.

No doubt. But someone claiming speed is a reason to use all wood blades is news to me.

 

[merlin el mago]

Well one thing is raw speed using flat hit and other is speed using topspin and a flex blade because the later the ball RPS is adding to raw speed, do you understand now?

Raw flat hit = 1 speed
Flex blade + power topspin (increase RPS) so when the ball contact the table increase the speed, in this case final speed is the sum of power hit + RPS of the ball

If you never used Chinese rubbers is possible that you can't understand my point, some Chinese famous pro high level players (ML, FZD, etc) when have to use flat hit to smash don't use H3 so twiddle the bat and smash with the Japanese or non grippy / sticky rubber because H3 only gets speed throught the spin but Japanese or non grippy rubbers are better for smash because produces a lot less topspin RPS balls

I'm sorry not native English speaker can't explaint better.

 

[Grumms]

Why would a top spin be faster than a flat hit ? That's physically impossible because of Newton's laws.

 

[merlin el mago]

All player skills depends, I know very good hitters (very bad topspin players) & also very good power topspin players (very bad smashers players)....

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Folks,

What are your feedback btw 2.5 vs 2.7?

 

[merlin el mago]

Clear: only difference 2.7 more speed and less control than 2.5

 

[Grumms]

All player skills depends, I know very good hitters (very bad topspin players) & also very good power topspin players (very bad smashers players)....

No, that's simple physics. At same "arm speed", flat hit give all energy for ball horizontal speed, whereas a top spin will give part of its energy to the rotation of the ball, that hence can't go faster than with the flat hit, since part of the energy is not given for horizontal movement. For the same reason, flat serves and flat groundstrokes at tennis are always faster than spin strokes.