Thread about Japanese Players

[pongfugrasshopper]

WTT Champions Frankfurt

MS R16
Shunsuke Togami vs Anders Lind 2-3 (-8,-5,5,10,-9)

WS R16
Satsuki Odo vs Elizabeta Samara 2-3 (7,-11,9,-13,-3)

bad day

Probably wouldn't have mattered, but FWIW, Samara is quite familiar with Odo's style as Satsuki Odo had a brief stint in Polish league on the same team as Samara .

 

[NextLevel]

Probably wouldn't have mattered, but FWIW, Samara is quite familiar with Odo's style as Satsuki Odo had a brief stint in Polish league on the same team as Samara .

Odo's form will always be at risk as long as she relies on dubious serving. Thats my opinion. She needs to clean it up and improve her first 4 shots without it. Once she isn't getting terrible returns, she starts struggling.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

In T-League Abyell, anchored by Miyu Nagasaki and Miu Hirano, wins a close 3-2 battle with Kaguya Rise, a scrappy team without a national level player. In another team matchup, Kaho Akae beat Miyuu Kihara 3-0. This was no fluke. Kaho went toe to toe with Miwa recently with Miwa winning 3-2,12-10. Kaho is really talented and I hope she gets more opportunities to play in WTT. Very hard with WTT's NER limit unless the tournament is undersubscribed.

 

[Catenaccio]

WTT Champions Frankfurt

MS QF
Sora Matsushima vs Dimitrij Ovtcharov 4-0 (9,8,7,4)

WS QF
Hina Hayata vs Adriana Diaz 4-1 (8,5,-10,9,7)
Miwa Harimoto vs Hana Goda 4-1 (8,-6,9,3,4)
Mima Ito vs Ying Han 4-0 (3,5,6,7)

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

By making the SF at Frankfurt, Hina closes the gap somewhat between her and Honoka. But if she beats Mima Ito tomorrow, she will surpass Honoka. She won't be able to surpass Mima even if she wins the title, but she would significantly close the gap. This is all heading into Star Contender Muscat where she will have more opportunity to advance.

 

[NextLevel]

By making the SF at Frankfurt, Hina closes the gap somewhat between her and Honoka. But if she beats Mima Ito tomorrow, she will surpass Honoka. She won't be able to surpass Mima even if she wins the title, but she would significantly close the gap. This is all heading into Star Contender Muscat where she will have more opportunity to advance.

I think the match vs Ito will say a lot but I dont think anyone watching her most recent form will say she is anything less than the Japanese #2.

 

[NextLevel]

In T-League Abyell, anchored by Miyu Nagasaki and Miu Hirano, wins a close 3-2 battle with Kaguya Rise, a scrappy team without a national level player. In another team matchup, Kaho Akae beat Miyuu Kihara 3-0. This was no fluke. Kaho went toe to toe with Miwa recently with Miwa winning 3-2,12-10. Kaho is really talented and I hope she gets more opportunities to play in WTT. Very hard with WTT's NER limit unless the tournament is undersubscribed.

Time flies and nationals is once again around the corner so she has to take her fate into her own hands by winning.

 

[Catenaccio]

I think the match vs Ito will say a lot but I dont think anyone watching her most recent form will say she is anything less than the Japanese #2.

I am one counter example to your statement. Imo, Mira Harimoto is #1, but it’s a close call between Hayata and Hashimoto for #2. Depending on what metrics you focus on during 2025, you can make a case for either. In addition, some people might make a case for Ito. The thing about most recent form is that it can change quickly and might not be sustainable.

 

[Catenaccio]

Odo's form will always be at risk as long as she relies on dubious serving. Thats my opinion. She needs to clean it up and improve her first 4 shots without it. Once she isn't getting terrible returns, she starts struggling.

I am not a supporter of Odo, but I want to point out a potential flaw in your reasoning. Let’s say that her serves are illegal and that she gets a greater percentage of terrible returns. She surely practices third ball attacks (and subsequent shots) against non-terrible returns already.

By cleaning up her serve, she would be less and not more competitive. In other words, she has little incentive to do so unless she is consistently faulted for her serves.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Hopefully, a team matchup between 2 powerhouses, Abyell and NP Mallets, should be starting in a few minutes.

The line up is:

Kotona Okada/Miyu Nagasaki vs Sachi Aoki/Sakura Yokoi
Miyu Nagasaki vs Hitomi Sato
Miu Hirano vs Saki Shibata
Sakurai Hana vs Yokoi Sakura

Hitomi has a 7-1 record this season losing only to KNY, but Miyu Nagasaki is a very tough matchup against choppers.

 

[NextLevel]

I am one counter example to your statement. Imo, Mira Harimoto is #1, but it’s a close call between Hayata and Hashimoto for #2. Depending on what metrics you focus on during 2025, you can make a case for either. In addition, some people might make a case for Ito. The thing about most recent form is that it can change quickly and might not be sustainable.

My counterargument is that she is returning to peak Hayata and neither peak Hashimoto or peak Ito can beat peak Hayata. The unsustainability of recent form is a given, that is why selection tournaments/dates etc. happen as closely to the event in question as reasonable. If we want to just go with the ranking, we can do that as well, but anyone who watches her performances against Diaz or Harimoto etc. and isn't convinced that this is Japan's second best player has their own reasons other than the way the matches went.

 

[NextLevel]

I am not a supporter of Odo, but I want to point out a potential flaw in your reasoning. Let’s say that her serves are illegal and that she gets a greater percentage of terrible returns. She surely practices third ball attacks (and subsequent shots) against non-terrible returns already.

By cleaning up her serve, she would be less and not more competitive. In other words, she has little incentive to do so unless she is consistently faulted for her serves.

I think you are taking my prescription almost robotically, it is like saying Harimoto should improve his forehand movement and then responding that Harimoto wins most of his points with his backhand, and he already practices forehand footwork already and that by using his forehand more, he would not be using his strength and he would be less competitive. He wouldn't do it until he is giving initative to do so.

In fact, just like Harimoto, Odo already has incentive to do what I said whether she does it or not. The incentive is that she needs to be less reliant on people returning her serve poorly and be better able to either do this through legal serves or failing that, be confident enough that she can still win matches when the opponent is not returning the ball terribly. The serve becomes just another dimension of her game. That said, the more TTR gets out there, the more incentive she will get. But unless you think the cracks in her game are driven by something else, my logic is sound. Otherwise, tell Harimoto to go focus on his backhand.

 

[Catenaccio]

My counterargument is that she is returning to peak Hayata and neither peak Hashimoto or peak Ito can beat peak Hayata. The unsustainability of recent form is a given, that is why selection tournaments/dates etc. happen as closely to the event in question as reasonable. If we want to just go with the ranking, we can do that as well, but anyone who watches her performances against Diaz or Harimoto etc. and isn't convinced that this is Japan's second best player has their own reasons other than the way the matches went.

I agree that peak Hayata is stronger than peak Hashimoto and peak Ito, but that is just one aspect of the overall strength of a player. I would argue that min Hashimoto has been stronger than min Hayata and min Ito in 2025 and this is equally important as the peak aspect imo.

 

[Catenaccio]

I think you are taking my prescription almost robotically, it is like saying Harimoto should improve his forehand movement and then responding that Harimoto wins most of his points with his backhand, and he already practices forehand footwork already and that by using his forehand more, he would not be using his strength and he would be less competitive. He wouldn't do it until he is giving initative to do so.

In fact, just like Harimoto, Odo already has incentive to do what I said whether she does it or not. The incentive is that she needs to be less reliant on people returning her serve poorly and be better able to either do this through legal serves or failing that, be confident enough that she can still win matches when the opponent is not returning the ball terribly. The serve becomes just another dimension of her game. That said, the more TTR gets out there, the more incentive she will get. But unless you think the cracks in her game are driven by something else, my logic is sound. Otherwise, tell Harimoto to go focus on his backhand.

I agree that Odo needs to improve the first few shots after the serve to be more competitive. But I disagree that cleaning up her serves will be necessary to improve those shots. It seems to me that you don’t like it when players use illegal serves and your recommendation about her serves is rather a statement that they are illegal.

 

[NextLevel]

I agree that peak Hayata is stronger than peak Hashimoto and peak Ito, but that is just one aspect of the overall strength of a player. I would argue that min Hashimoto has been stronger than min Hayata and min Ito in 2025 and this is equally important as the peak aspect imo.

If we are trying to project current and future form with an eye towards recent and upcoming events, and since there were identifiable reasons for Hayata's loss of form that if she is being honest with recent revelations are unlikely to apply going forward, then using a period of injury recovery to define her minimum is probably unfair to her. One may not trust her recent performances since they are limited in scope, but using a period of injury recovery to define min Hayata is just as unfair.

 

[NextLevel]

I agree that Odo needs to improve the first few shots after the serve to be more competitive. But I disagree that cleaning up her serves will be necessary to improve those shots. It seems to me that you don’t like it when players use illegal serves and your recommendation about her serves is rather a statement that they are illegal.

Yes, I am biased against illegal serves. I also believe nothing is necessary in table tennis so you are also right that cleaning up her serves is not necessary to improve those shots. My prescription is based on my experience dealing with players who rely heavily on serves, usually illegal, to win points. Most such players improved their rally games after their serves were taken away from them for one reason or the other.

 

[joshmak10]

1 Miwa
2 Hayata
3 Hashimoto
4 Ito
5 Odo
6 Nagasaki

These are the locks in these positions imo based on past performances over the year. 7 spot is between Sato, Kihara, and Hirano imo, with Yokoi just behind them. Sato has been impressive this year but only competes in feeders really, I feel like I’ve barely seen Kihara all year but she has made a (Star?) Contender final this year, and Hirano is skill wise better than these two imo but results and her mental game have been really poor. Yokoi is a doubles specialist imo and her singles record has still been slightly dodgy at times

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Nagasaki won against Sato in Tleague and we can see her with a delightful smile on her insta

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Nagasaki won against Sato in Tleague and we can see her with a delightful smile on her insta

you can't use that "smile" in reference to the win.
because she always have a delightful smile no matter what

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

There's no thread for it, but 17 year old Misuzu Takeya is the Champion of WTT Feeder Vila Nova de Gaia beating Natalia Bajor 3-0. Congratulations Misuzu!