What makes more difference - rubbers or blades

[Tony's Table Tennis]

That is the impression I have got. They adjust to the rubber quickly. I note we mere mortal players talk a lot about rubbers, while the top players don't. This also just made me realise they also have their names on blades, but not really on rubbers.

hobby players like to talk about equipment way too much, because they (ie tensorbackhand and co) refuse to acknowledge they have reach a point where they are stuck, and training with a coach would solve that problem.

Once at a semi pro team (train 30+ hours a week).
the center opened for some teachers to train for a teachers tournament.

so, few teachers spend more time "discussion blade and rubbers" in the corner, than actually training (gave them a 3 hour session on a Saturday).

I was there with the head coach and he said to me, said they are more interested in talking about equipment than hitting the ball.
I said, if they want to talk equipment, they should just go to a cafe.

 

[zeio]

2019/12/31
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/stroke-impacted-by.22562/post-300901


There have been many studies on this.

A study from Taiwan a long time ago.

2018/9/13
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...ysis-of-table-tennis-blades.18950/post-243116

1st Mode of Vibration (Hz)
A certain PLStar 5-ply all-wood blade - 39.58±0.86
A certain Keyshot Light 3+2 Vectran blade - 39.97±1.21
A certain Primorac Carbon 3+2 Carbon blade - 54.56±0.49

Coefficient of Restitution in the Normal Direction at Low/Medium/High Impact Velocity (7.41±0.4/8.28±0.52/9.16±0.46 m/s)
Blade Alone
5-ply all-wood - 0.7±0.01, 0.7±0.04, 0.73±0.04
3+2 Vectran - 0.7±0.03, 0.7±0.03, 0.71±0.02
3+2 Carbon - 0.75±0.05, 0.75±0.05, 0.79±0.06
With Sriver in 2.0 On Side of Impact
5-ply all-wood - 0.92, 0.86, 0.84
3+2 Vectran - 0.92, 0.87, 0.84
3+2 Carbon - 0.93, 0.89, 0.86

Percentage Difference between Primorac Carbon and PLStar:
Blade Alone
At Low Impact Velocity
(.75-.7)/((.75+.7)/2)*100= 6.89655172%
At Medium Impact Velocity
(.75-.7)/((.75+.7)/2)*100= 6.89655172%
At High Impact Velocity
(.79-.73)/((.79+.73)/2)*100= 7.89473684%

With Sriver in 2.0 On Side of Impact
At Low Impact Velocity
(.93-.92)/((.93+.92)/2)*100= 1.08108108%
At Medium Impact Velocity
(.89-.86)/((.89+.86)/2)*100= 3.42857143%
At High Impact Velocity
(.86-.84)/((.86+.84)/2)*100= 2.35294118%

 

[RefereeNumber2]

hobby players think they are pros and use what they think they can control.
most times, they cannot

Zhang Jike talked about the importance of the blade over a rubber and that is just a message I am sharing with you.
If he has that to say, it does have some weight, he is only a grand slam, more than any Australian Olympian.

Of course, since I said in page 1 or 2, the comparison in OP is so skewed, its not even a fair comparison, and I also said, rubber will matter more for hobby players, but when we talking pros, the blade is also extremely important too.
But I understand, its all hobby players talk here. so rubbers wins.

and where training came to be - then you should read where training was mentioned. and where just maybe, people should spend less them worrying about blades and rubbers and more time training.

We have clearly broad agreement that rubbers are more important than blades at the amateur level. ZJK has also directly stated this.

At the pro level, everything is very important. Do you have a quote from ZJK saying blade is more important than rubber? Bc time to evaluate is not the same thing. It just means that the performance of a rubber is so obvious as to be immediately noticeable, while a blade’s performance makes a much more subtle difference.

That is the impression I have got. They adjust to the rubber quickly. I note we mere mortal players talk a lot about rubbers, while the top players don't. This also just made me realise they also have their names on blades, but not really on rubbers.

You claim top players don’t pay attention to their rubbers and expect us to believe you’re doubles partners with an Olympic medalist?

Maybe you really are a TT blade marketer, because putting player names on blades is one of the only ways brands have to market a product which is almost unchanged since the 1990s.

Rubbers don’t have player names because they don’t need them to sell. Don’t fool yourself that players aren’t much more closely involved in the development and testing of new rubbers compared to their named blade(s).

 

[Taute]

In my personal opinion, rubbers have a greater immediate impact on the quality of the game, especially when it comes to generating spin and speed. Even a player of the highest skill, having received a completely unsuitable rubber, will suddenly face limited opportunities to attack and spin the ball: rubber speed, arc, spin, tack./grip and etc. will not work.
Blade is more responsible for stability, comfort and potential utilization: blade allows you to fully realize the spin and speed provided by the rubber.
I think that for a professional, the critical factor will be rubber, but in the long term we cannot separate rubber from blade: they must be coordinated with each other.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

At the pro level, everything is very important. Do you have a quote from ZJK saying blade is more important than rubber? Bc time to evaluate is not the same thing. It just means that the performance of a rubber is so obvious as to be immediately noticeable, while a blade’s performance makes a much more subtle difference.

one of the videos he posted talks about it
time to evaluate is because the blade is a lot more complex and is the core of the equipment. the grand slam talked about how important the blade exactly is.

he also said something about don't waste money / time buying useless brands blades (i guess he was refering to all the EJs and guys like tensorbackhand, who is forever trying to fine clones of this and that).

Go and watch all his videos, I'm sure one of them will have the answer you are seeking.

I have done enough on this matter, its obvious people do not trust me on this matter or simply, my ears to my typing.
hope everyone enjoy another 9 pages of useless debate

 

[latej]

As much as I respect the OP, the question is a nice example of "false dilemma" (as ChatGPT pointed to me, because I could not recall the term, lol). And the 9 pages are a proof of how much we like pointless discussions... Anyway, wtf would I think about picking ;-)

 

[MORTtheORT]

hobby players like to talk about equipment way too much, because they (ie tensorbackhand and co) refuse to acknowledge they have reach a point where they are stuck, and training with a coach would solve that problem.

Once at a semi pro team (train 30+ hours a week).
the center opened for some teachers to train for a teachers tournament.

so, few teachers spend more time "discussion blade and rubbers" in the corner, than actually training (gave them a 3 hour session on a Saturday).

I was there with the head coach and he said to me, said they are more interested in talking about equipment than hitting the ball.
I said, if they want to talk equipment, they should just go to a cafe.

That is good to learn and makes sense to what I am seeing with these top players and coaches. I laughed about the hobby player....I just pictured all the players I know who have a bad tournament and they immediately start talking about changing their setup. It is so true.

 

[MORTtheORT]

Yeah sorry I really don't believe any former Olympic TT medalist is spending their retirement "rapidly cycling thru rackets" and playing doubles and casual singles against 2000 level players.

Yeah sorry I really don't believe any former Olympic TT medalist is spending their retirement "rapidly cycling thru rackets" and playing doubles and casual singles against 2000 level players.

Says a lot about you. He had given his blade to a younger player for a tournament. It is called being a good person and helping out the next generation by getting involved.

 

[MORTtheORT]

We have clearly broad agreement that rubbers are more important than blades at the amateur level. ZJK has also directly stated this.

At the pro level, everything is very important. Do you have a quote from ZJK saying blade is more important than rubber? Bc time to evaluate is not the same thing. It just means that the performance of a rubber is so obvious as to be immediately noticeable, while a blade’s performance makes a much more subtle difference.


You claim top players don’t pay attention to their rubbers and expect us to believe you’re doubles partners with an Olympic medalist?

Maybe you really are a TT blade marketer, because putting player names on blades is one of the only ways brands have to market a product which is almost unchanged since the 1990s.

Rubbers don’t have player names because they don’t need them to sell. Don’t fool yourself that players aren’t much more closely involved in the development and testing of new rubbers compared to their named blade(s).

I am certain players names are not on rubbers because of royalties profits for the company more then anything else. I am confident the pros play with the rubbers the sponsors tell them to play with....

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I am certain players names are not on rubbers because of royalties profits for the company more then anything else. I am confident the pros play with the rubbers the sponsors tell them to play with....

You mean like when FZD was sponsored by Stiga and using a Viscaria with a Stiga handle with H3 on FH and a Butterfly rubber on BH? Or when Dima O was sponsored by Donic and using Butterfly rubbers and would always completely hide the handle and edges of his blade?

There are many more examples of TT players not using the rubbers from their sponsor....blades too....but more frequently, the rubbers.

 

[zeio]

As much as I respect the OP, the question is a nice example of "false dilemma" (as ChatGPT pointed to me, because I could not recall the term, lol). And the 9 pages are a proof of how much we like pointless discussions... Anyway, wtf would I think about picking ;-)

Now you see why "stop wasting my time" has become my motto recently...

Still, the OP question is a practical one as I faced the same situation when switching to shakehand and I learned it the hard way by opting for the "expensive blade + cheap rubbers" combination...

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I am certain players names are not on rubbers because of royalties profits for the company more then anything else. I am confident the pros play with the rubbers the sponsors tell them to play with....

This comment confirms that you don't have have the knowledge of pros and Olympians that you are pretending to. Thanks for removing any doubt.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

hobby players think they are pros and use what they think they can control.
most times, they cannot

Zhang Jike talked about the importance of the blade over a rubber and that is just a message I am sharing with you.
If he has that to say, it does have some weight, he is only a grand slam, more than any Australian Olympian.

Of course, since I said in page 1 or 2, the comparison in OP is so skewed, its not even a fair comparison, and I also said, rubber will matter more for hobby players, but when we talking pros, the blade is also extremely important too.
But I understand, its all hobby players talk here. so rubbers wins.

and where training came to be - then you should read where training was mentioned. and where just maybe, people should spend less them worrying about blades and rubbers and more time training.

Nobody doubted, was unaware, or needed Zhang Jike to tell us that blades and rubbers are both extremely important to professional players lol. Again, when Zhang Jike speaks about changing a blade and it taking time to get used to he is not referring to the question that this thread is discussing, which I don't think is a "skewed comparison", it's a very valid and practical question.

Unless you consider Anders Lind, who answered the way he did when asked this exact exact question unlike Zhang Jike, a hobby player, I'm not really sure what the default hobby player on this forum line serves.

 

[latej]

Now you see why "stop wasting my time" has become my motto recently...

Still, the OP question is a practical one as I faced the same situation when switching to shakehand and I learned it the hard way by opting for the "expensive blade + cheap rubbers" combination...

Even you, Brutus???

;-)

I mean, when I read my post, it seems kind of harsh, but I actually don't mean it judgmentally at all... It's just, you feel the blade, you feel the rubbers, you need both, you need that it all works to play, that's why we do this right... I just don't get why would I be interested in which one is more important. It's almost like thinking, oh, which one of my children is more important... Stupid ;-)

 

[RefereeNumber2]

one of the videos he posted talks about it
time to evaluate is because the blade is a lot more complex and is the core of the equipment. the grand slam talked about how important the blade exactly is.

he also said something about don't waste money / time buying useless brands blades (i guess he was refering to all the EJs and guys like tensorbackhand, who is forever trying to fine clones of this and that).

Go and watch all his videos, I'm sure one of them will have the answer you are seeking.

I have done enough on this matter, its obvious people do not trust me on this matter or simply, my ears to my typing.
hope everyone enjoy another 9 pages of useless debate

The only relevant video I can find is this 4-minute one, where ZJK says you need to evaluate both blades and rubbers by playing matches, not just hitting loops in practice. It’s clear from context that he’s criticizing how amateur video channels make blade reviews. At the end, one of his students explains how ZJK would play multiple days with the same blade in order to try it with different kinds of rubbers, since the rubbers affect the feeling of the blade (in addition to other playing conditions). I can’t find anywhere where ZJK says it takes only a few hits to adapt to a rubber.

In this video around the 4:25 mark, ZJK distinctly says that rubbers and gluing technique is more important than blades, for developing players.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

As much as I respect the OP, the question is a nice example of "false dilemma" (as ChatGPT pointed to me, because I could not recall the term, lol). And the 9 pages are a proof of how much we like pointless discussions... Anyway, wtf would I think about picking ;-)

It's not a false dilemma at all. Say you have a very old racket and only have enough money to replace two rubbers or a blade, which one do you pick?

Say you're buying a racket for the first time working with a limited budget, do you prioritize the quality of the rubbers or the blade?

 

[NextLevel]

Nobody doubted, was unaware, or needed Zhang Jike to tell us that blades and rubbers are both extremely important to professional players lol. Again, when Zhang Jike speaks about changing a blade and it taking time to get used to he is not referring to the question that this thread is discussing, which I don't think is a "skewed comparison", it's a very valid and practical question.

Unless you consider Anders Lind, who answered the way he did when asked this exact exact question unlike Zhang Jike, a hobby player, I'm not really sure what the default hobby player on this forum line serves.

He tethered himself to a position early and is bound to defend it.

Even you, Brutus???

;-)

I mean, when I read my post, it seems kind of harsh, but I actually don't mean it judgmentally at all... It's just, you feel the blade, you feel the rubbers, you need both, you need that it all works to play, that's why we do this right... I just don't get why would I be interested in which one is more important. It's almost like thinking, oh, which one of my children is more important... Stupid ;-)

There are countries and cultures where what you consider stupid is actually considered important (sometimes answered by age, sometimes answered by sex, sometimes answered by potential for royal succession). In the end, it depends on whether you can apply yourself to understanding a question based on data as opposed to dismissing it because you find it uninteresting on emotional grounds. The question has no value for you, but it has always on some level driven my recommendations to players as a coach. I tell them to make sure the rubbers are of a certain quality and preferably Butterfly. They can save money on the wood or buy a Viscaria as long as they are willing to get coaching.

 

[Lando]

Probably rubber. The ball would slip with a dead rubber.
With a good rubber, you'd still be able to loop, even if the blade is dead.

 

[latej]

It's not a false dilemma at all. Say you have a very old racket and only have enough money to replace two rubbers or a blade, which one do you pick?

Say you're buying a racket for the first time working with a limited budget, do you prioritize the quality of the rubbers or the blade?

Another one ;-)

Anyway, none. I'd just get what I can... But I will not think about which one of the two has more impact or is more important... It's by-side... You see, it's not relevant... There are other thing which are... We simply can see it differently...

 

[Sriver1]

The most useless and stupid thread. 179 post. No information.