TPB Penhold Short Pips or Inverted

[TenPercentWinRate]

Is TPB penhold more suitable for inverted or short pimples?

I’ve been playing with both RPB and TPB with inverted rubbers for some months now, but I still have some glaring weaknesses in the backhand.

My issue for RPB is that when in an actual competition I can’t transition from forehand to RPB fast enough. For inverted TPB I can’t block spinny loops unless I really clench my index finger to get the racket angle down.

Would short pimples be a solution? Are there any advantages or disadvantages for TPB?

( Forehand shouldn’t be too big of an issue if I use short pimples as I have a tendency to drive and do a forehand loop almost like a lift)

 

[MOJOJOJO-74]

You can always use TPB for blocking/placement for your forehand and RPB to kill or for placement as well to set-up for a good forehand. You already realize that you need to angle more for incoming spin so there's no need to use short pips, unless you like to add less spin and then just smash the heck out the ball. It took me months to have a good RPB as for me that was definitely the hardest part for penhold, but now I loop and use both FH and RPB efficiently and use TPB much less. You won't be able to generate super spin like inverted rubbers can so you would most likely twiddle to serve or do backhand serves, which can be hard for penhold. Hope this helps!

 

[greenbeanmachine]

get a sheet of Friendship 802-40 for $10 on Ali Express and slap it on your racket. try a thickness of 1.7-1.8mm to start. You might like it. Works well on basswood too. 802-40 is relatively similar to inverted rubber in terms of ability to spin. If you like the pips effect then you can go deeper into the rabbit hole and try some slick disruptive pips.

pips TBP is really excellent for blocking and allows you to punch the ball really fast. making the change to pips for the sole purpose of blocking might be a bad idea. but if you can integrate other parts of the penhold pips style, then it could be a good idea. I'd encourage you to try it, it's a really fun style (I used to play penhold pips)

some tips:
- learning to twiddle will be very useful. probably you will want to twiddle on your serve, and you might even be able to do it during rallies
- if you use spinny pips like 802-40, then you can create a good amount of spin on your serve, but only if you serve fast and long
- you will have to play much more aggressively than you are normally used to. if you get pushed behind the table you're finished. sometimes you can recover by twiddling your racket and using the inverted rubber to lob.
- check out games from pros like He Zhi Wen and Wang Zeng Yi to see what kinds of strategy and tactics they use

 

[PenHoldSandro]

Honestly it's a preference thing. If you want to hit hard and flat, SP is the way to go. If you want a more general playstyle, go for inverted. Pips are basically an extreme version of inverted, directing you to a certain style.

SP goes for players who like close to table attacking
MP goes to deceptive blockers and overall punching
LP goes to choppers/very deceptive blocking

I agree with @greenbeanmachine with testing SP out, specifically 802-40.

 

[blahness]

TPB is best for OX LP hahaha

 

[blahness]

I highly recommend sticking OX LP on the backside alongside inverted and then learn how to twiddle. This playstyle is stupidly OP in the amateur circles.

Unlike shakehand where if you dont like playing against LP you can always redirect it to the inverted side, it is easy for penhold to do whole table LP (including TPB) to force an opportunity ball, then twiddle to inverted to loopkill loose balls with the FH.

You can stick with your spinny af inverted serves. With receive you can twiddle underneath the table so that the server cannot know which side you are planning to receive with. So he has to deal with both LP and inverted return possibilities.

If you can do RPB with inverted this is even more powerful because even when you have twiddled to OX LP on FH, you can still attack balls hard with your inverted RPB. This removes a major disadvantage of the style at the BH corner.

 

[blahness]

TPB blocking spinny loops is much easier if you know how to go sideways to rob the momentum. Both left to right or right to left will work. No need to close the angle excessively (you need to close it a little of course). Much higher success rates this way.

 

[PenHoldSandro]

I highly recommend sticking OX LP on the backside alongside inverted and then learn how to twiddle. This playstyle is stupidly OP in the amateur circles.

Unlike shakehand where if you dont like playing against LP you can always redirect it to the inverted side, it is easy for penhold to do whole table LP (including TPB) to force an opportunity ball, then twiddle to inverted to loopkill loose balls with the FH.

You can stick with your spinny af inverted serves. With receive you can twiddle underneath the table so that the server cannot know which side you are planning to receive with. So he has to deal with both LP and inverted return possibilities.

If you can do RPB with inverted this is even more powerful because even when you have twiddled to OX LP on FH, you can still attack balls hard with your inverted RPB. This removes a major disadvantage of the style at the BH corner.

Generally I wouldn't recommend this style, but it does work in some scenarios. Much better to use SP or Inverted rather than LP, unless you're very good at aiming. @blahness is pretty right at most points, like it being op in amateur tourneys, or it covers the backhand to an extent, but it also restricts a lot of other styles. Try it out if you want, if you like it you can stick to it, but generally this is uncommon.

 

[blahness]

Generally I wouldn't recommend this style, but it does work in some scenarios. Much better to use SP or Inverted rather than LP, unless you're very good at aiming. @blahness is pretty right at most points, like it being op in amateur tourneys, or it covers the backhand to an extent, but it also restricts a lot of other styles. Try it out if you want, if you like it you can stick to it, but generally this is uncommon.

the trick is that having one side inverted and one side OX LP you can use both instead of just 1. The variation can be killer. There are many penholders out there at amateur level who use this very effectively and Ive played with many of them. There was one who even beat national team member with such a style.

That said this style is horrible to play against lol.

 

[blahness]

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/pro-lp-inverted-penholder.38323/

 

[PenHoldSandro]

the trick is that having one side inverted and one side OX LP you can use both instead of just 1. The variation can be killer. There are many penholders out there at amateur level who use this very effectively and Ive played with many of them. There was one who even beat national team member with such a style.

Oh yeah I have a decent amount of knowledge on this technique. It's very good at confusing the opponents and precise shots, but not much else.

A valid playstyle but really restricts where you can go. Maybe if you played for like 3 years and still keep that same style will u switch.

That said this style is horrible to play against lol.

This is true lol, it's 100% annoying to play against, probably much worse than its shakehand counterpart

 

[Lando]

I play 1 sided jpen with inverted but have played with SP and LP.
Inverted just gives you more versatility imo.
Also, you can add weird strawberry flick type hits with tpb. Shakehanders rarely deal with that technique on an amateur level.
Go inverted, but it all comes down to what you enjoy the most.

 

[blahness]

Oh yeah I have a decent amount of knowledge on this technique. It's very good at confusing the opponents and precise shots, but not much else.

A valid playstyle but really restricts where you can go. Maybe if you played for like 3 years and still keep that same style will u switch.

This is true lol, it's 100% annoying to play against, probably much worse than its shakehand counterpart

I'm not sure if it is limiting if it allows an amateur to defeat a national team member here. In reality, without a correct and intense training environment, 2x inverted will fare far worse in terms of absolute ceiling. And i never heard of a 2x inverted amateur defeating even a semi pro.

 

[PenHoldSandro]

I'm not sure if it is limiting if it allows an amateur to defeat a national team member here. In reality, without a correct and intense training environment, 2x inverted will fare far worse in terms of absolute ceiling. And i never heard of a 2x inverted amateur defeating even a semi pro.

I don't think you get it that much... see, the thing is that this style IS INSANELY OP in amateur levels because no one knows how to play against it, nothing more. Once you get the hang of it, you can push the LP player around to oblivion.

There is a reason why no modern pro uses Penhold LP.

Another reason why this style dropped in popularity is because of the ball change. The ball change made it less spinny, and made it that the lp doesn't affect the spin to be confusing, hence giving back much easier balls.

The national team member stated here is not used to said style, give him/her a week to play and learn to fight against the style and he/she will cook that Penhold LP player up.

Now don't get me wrong, I love the Penhold LP style, it's extremely fun to play with and just aim and shoot. However, it has glaring weaknesses that make it inefficient to most players. Only some can cook up with this style.

 

[PenHoldSandro]

I play 1 sided jpen with inverted but have played with SP and LP.
Inverted just gives you more versatility imo.
Also, you can add weird strawberry flick type hits with tpb. Shakehanders rarely deal with that technique on an amateur level.
Go inverted, but it all comes down to what you enjoy the most.

This is absolutely true, and is what I'm trying to tell @blahness, specifically his ideals for LP

 

[blahness]

I don't think you get it that much... see, the thing is that this style IS INSANELY OP in amateur levels because no one knows how to play against it, nothing more. Once you get the hang of it, you can push the LP player around to oblivion.

There is a reason why no modern pro uses Penhold LP.

Another reason why this style dropped in popularity is because of the ball change. The ball change made it less spinny, and made it that the lp doesn't affect the spin to be confusing, hence giving back much easier balls.

The national team member stated here is not used to said style, give him/her a week to play and learn to fight against the style and he/she will cook that Penhold LP player up.

Now don't get me wrong, I love the Penhold LP style, it's extremely fun to play with and just aim and shoot. However, it has glaring weaknesses that make it inefficient to most players. Only some can cook up with this style.

I think you didnt understand my point at all. I am describing a twiddling LP/inverted player. Such a player has full access to all the inverted range of shots. It is not just as simple as "Penh9ld LP"

 

[Caravenav]

Is TPB penhold more suitable for inverted or short pimples?

I’ve been playing with both RPB and TPB with inverted rubbers for some months now, but I still have some glaring weaknesses in the backhand.

My issue for RPB is that when in an actual competition I can’t transition from forehand to RPB fast enough. For inverted TPB I can’t block spinny loops unless I really clench my index finger to get the racket angle down.

Would short pimples be a solution? Are there any advantages or disadvantages for TPB?

( Forehand shouldn’t be too big of an issue if I use short pimples as I have a tendency to drive and do a forehand loop almost like a lift)

You should consider that switching from inverted to SP just to improve your blocking with TPB could take more time than developing your RPB. I play Penholder SP and yes, the TPB block is easier and more effective with SP. You can push and attack more, not just defensively. The chop block and letting the ball bounce short is easy. If you choose the right SP, you can also create deceptive spins that make your opponent's shots go to the net. However, the timing to hit the ball is different, and you should play close to the table. Your strategy should change. I think it's a great style of play, and because almost nobody plays that way (at least in Europe and America), it's difficult to play against an SP player. Initially, you could have a sp and inverted in your racket to test, and if you like it, make a later transition to sp. I agree that 802-40 is a good starting point.

 

[xavi]

If you cannot close the angle enough I recommend you:

1. Try to block at your left, not in front of your body. You will see the angle gets lot more closed and the back fingers support much better.
2. If you have to block in front of your body, then be sure to put the elbow really touching the trunk. This allows you to have your racket looking to the front instead of looking to the side and the angle gets much more closed.

I tried TPB with short pips for 3-4 years and now that I returned to inverted there's a lot more options and the friction allows you to play much better with the bakchand.

So I recommend you inverted and follow the 1), 2) above.

 

[PenHoldSandro]

I think you didnt understand my point at all. I am describing a twiddling LP/inverted player. Such a player has full access to all the inverted range of shots. It is not just as simple as "Penh9ld LP"

I dont think you understand my point either. I know youre describing the penhold lp player, and yes it is pretty powerful, but have you seen any top 10 player use it in the modern game? No, right?

Theres something about it that makes it weaker in the modern game, and it also looks like this isn't the style OP was looking for.

Thank you for the information, @blahness, it was surprising to see a penhold lp supporter here lol.

 

[xavi]

I dont think you understand my point either. I know youre describing the penhold lp player, and yes it is pretty powerful, but have you seen any top 10 player use it in the modern game? No, right?

Theres something about it that makes it weaker in the modern game, and it also looks like this isn't the style OP was looking for.

Thank you for the information, @blahness, it was surprising to see a penhold lp supporter here lol.

Let's see Liu Zihang what level reaches as he grows: