Looking for a Fh Rubber

[Zezima]

Hey folks,

I want to give up on d09c. I already went down with the blade going from long5 then to W968 and now to Petr Korbel jp. I feel like I get more feedback which I need to self adjust my stroke. Now after a couple months with d09c both sides I think its time to go down to an easier to activate rubber but with linear properties.

Why linear? I struggled with shorter slower balls with h3 because of the hard dampening effect. It was only good when opp served short. But in my league they mostly serve halflongish longish serves. Noone really serves short.

My most recent games:

against +300 rated players.

Even with a different rubber I would have lost still but I am still showing these clips so you can see how I use my fh and that d09c just feels wrong even though I like the fact it gets better and easier to play the longer I play with this rubber.

I actually played more safe with a 8month d09c compared to a fresh sheet...

I have also tried g09c. It feels like the little brother of d09c. But I think I am looking for something even easier to activate than g09c. I have seen much better players like 2200ttr with a really good fh with r48. So I feel like I might need to go even softer than that like r45 type of softness maybe?

Last 7 years I havent had anything softer than 47,5° rubber on my fh. So I don't even know how that would feel. Played the likes of g1, aurus prime, r48,mx-p,g09c,r7, mx-d

Please recommend some rubbers you think it would greatly benefit and get more confident in using my fh even if I am standing not perfect to the ball but still easier to activate the sponge.

With d09c I can activate it only when I am standing correct.

My ideal rubber would have the same linearity in block and catapulty/linearity like d09c but it can be slightly less speed softer feeling so I can tell if I activated the sponge. But not too soft since I would hate it to bottom out when I go all in (I want to blame my technique not the rubber giving up)

I also struggle with soft loops on receive. I am sometimes too slow and dont overcome the incoming speed. So slight misread makes the ball go out or into the net when I loop.

 

[Tyce]

I'm taking a (temporary) step back and went with Super FX on my FH, Mercury 2 on BH. Both are still rubber with decent potential but should be much easier to activate. Once I have the activation sequence further ingrained in my system I will go back to either G1 or H3 on FH.
(for BH I haven't quite figured out what I want and need)

 

[zeio]

The issue stems from the fact that you don't hit through the ball hard enough on most shots. Going with a softer rubber will alleviate it but the issue remains.

You need more of this FH @4:13, hitting at/near top of bounce. Look for that metallic, cracking sound. Same for BH.

 

[tzifos]

The issue stems from the fact that you don't hit through the ball hard enough on most shots. Going with a softer rubber will alleviate it but the issue remains.

You need more of this FH @4:13, hitting at/near top of bounce. Look for that metallic, cracking sound. Same for BH.

+1 too "passive/defensive" play. It seems like you don't trust yourself and equipment to be more aggressive. Maybe a more linear rubber (like G1 or Mantra pro, at 1.9~2mm) will give you more confidence to be more aggressive

 

[belllfador]

Hey folks,

I want to give up on d09c. I already went down with the blade going from long5 then to W968 and now to Petr Korbel jp. I feel like I get more feedback which I need to self adjust my stroke. Now after a couple months with d09c both sides I think its time to go down to an easier to activate rubber but with linear properties.

Why linear? I struggled with shorter slower balls with h3 because of the hard dampening effect. It was only good when opp served short. But in my league they mostly serve halflongish longish serves. Noone really serves short.

My most recent games:

against +300 rated players.

Even with a different rubber I would have lost still but I am still showing these clips so you can see how I use my fh and that d09c just feels wrong even though I like the fact it gets better and easier to play the longer I play with this rubber.

I actually played more safe with a 8month d09c compared to a fresh sheet...

I have also tried g09c. It feels like the little brother of d09c. But I think I am looking for something even easier to activate than g09c. I have seen much better players like 2200ttr with a really good fh with r48. So I feel like I might need to go even softer than that like r45 type of softness maybe?

Last 7 years I havent had anything softer than 47,5° rubber on my fh. So I don't even know how that would feel. Played the likes of g1, aurus prime, r48,mx-p,g09c,r7, mx-d

Please recommend some rubbers you think it would greatly benefit and get more confident in using my fh even if I am standing not perfect to the ball but still easier to activate the sponge.

With d09c I can activate it only when I am standing correct.

My ideal rubber would have the same linearity in block and catapulty/linearity like d09c but it can be slightly less speed softer feeling so I can tell if I activated the sponge. But not too soft since I would hate it to bottom out when I go all in (I want to blame my technique not the rubber giving up)

I also struggle with soft loops on receive. I am sometimes too slow and dont overcome the incoming speed. So slight misread makes the ball go out or into the net when I loop.

Think your FH can be faster. Also, your movement is kind of short, like in warm-up. I never play with D09C, but I have various H3s and G09C. The last one can work with short movement, but H3s don't tolerate that.

I can write about two possibilities:

1. Use of H3 (or similar) to improve your technique. Orange sponge is a bit easier. H3 requires fast and long movement, you need to create the arc with your body. Near the table, recovery can be a challenge, but at mid-distance it is OK. H3 on a flexible 5 ply blade is as easy as G1 on outer carbon. D09C could be the next step, or Vega China VM, or Andro NUZN 55.

2. Use of rubber that can work with your current technic. G1 could be that, but Mantra Pro (XH) is faster and more dangerous. Personally, I don't like G09C and the similar LAC, but many people recommend it as an easier D09C alternative.

 

[NetProphet]

Hey folks,

I want to give up on d09c. I already went down with the blade going from long5 then to W968 and now to Petr Korbel jp. I feel like I get more feedback which I need to self adjust my stroke. Now after a couple months with d09c both sides I think its time to go down to an easier to activate rubber but with linear properties.

Why linear? I struggled with shorter slower balls with h3 because of the hard dampening effect. It was only good when opp served short. But in my league they mostly serve halflongish longish serves. Noone really serves short.

My most recent games:

against +300 rated players.

Even with a different rubber I would have lost still but I am still showing these clips so you can see how I use my fh and that d09c just feels wrong even though I like the fact it gets better and easier to play the longer I play with this rubber.

I actually played more safe with a 8month d09c compared to a fresh sheet...

I have also tried g09c. It feels like the little brother of d09c. But I think I am looking for something even easier to activate than g09c. I have seen much better players like 2200ttr with a really good fh with r48. So I feel like I might need to go even softer than that like r45 type of softness maybe?

Last 7 years I havent had anything softer than 47,5° rubber on my fh. So I don't even know how that would feel. Played the likes of g1, aurus prime, r48,mx-p,g09c,r7, mx-d

Please recommend some rubbers you think it would greatly benefit and get more confident in using my fh even if I am standing not perfect to the ball but still easier to activate the sponge.

With d09c I can activate it only when I am standing correct.

My ideal rubber would have the same linearity in block and catapulty/linearity like d09c but it can be slightly less speed softer feeling so I can tell if I activated the sponge. But not too soft since I would hate it to bottom out when I go all in (I want to blame my technique not the rubber giving up)

Honestly, Rakza 7 (or X) in max thickness for 6 months.

You have a good FH and a rubber like that will help you to really understand what you are doing or not doing.

I also struggle with soft loops on receive. I am sometimes too slow and dont overcome the incoming speed. So slight misread makes the ball go out or into the net when I loop.

This is a technique thing only that you can iron out with some good practice.

I assume by soft loop you mean the ability to counter loops that are not so fast or so spinny, do I interpret this correctly?
I don't think you're too slow, it's likely just indecisiveness.
The key in my experience is anticipating and really committing to the shot so you take full control of the ball.
That means a hawk eye on the opponents racket and following the ball with my core rotation to the right to unload a full and proper FH.

 

[Zezima]

The issue stems from the fact that you don't hit through the ball hard enough on most shots. Going with a softer rubber will alleviate it but the issue remains.

You need more of this FH @4:13, hitting at/near top of bounce. Look for that metallic, cracking sound. Same for BH.

Yeah I seem to be able to do that only after my serve. During the rally I seem to end up taking it at later stages and hit it out if I go faster.

In drills I am really good with this setup. And can get that sound. But in match play it feels like if I want to loop I have to loop from a bad position or just float hit/float block the ball back.

 

[Zezima]

+1 too "passive/defensive" play. It seems like you don't trust yourself and equipment to be more aggressive. Maybe a more linear rubber (like G1 or Mantra pro, at 1.9~2mm) will give you more confidence to be more aggressive

I dont like the idea of going thinner sponge. That just would reduce the quality of my topspin since I have less thickness to work with.

I also believe g1 is not soft enough to feel enough difference compared to my setup.

 

[Zezima]

Think your FH can be faster. Also, your movement is kind of short, like in warm-up. I never play with D09C, but I have various H3s and G09C. The last one can work with short movement, but H3s don't tolerate that.

I can write about two possibilities:

1. Use of H3 (or similar) to improve your technique. Orange sponge is a bit easier. H3 requires fast and long movement, you need to create the arc with your body. Near the table, recovery can be a challenge, but at mid-distance it is OK. H3 on a flexible 5 ply blade is as easy as G1 on outer carbon. D09C could be the next step, or Vega China VM, or Andro NUZN 55.

2. Use of rubber that can work with your current technic. G1 could be that, but Mantra Pro (XH) is faster and more dangerous. Personally, I don't like G09C and the similar LAC, but many people recommend it as an easier D09C alternative.

I doubt NUZN is a good fit for me when a +800TTR player says NUZN 50 is wore for him so he plays R48 instead... and he has a much better fh than me.

Vega china I heard about will need to check it out

 

[Zezima]

Honestly, Rakza 7 (or X) in max thickness for 6 months.

You have a good FH and a rubber like that will help you to really understand what you are doing or not doing.

This is a technique thing only that you can iron out with some good practice.

I assume by soft loop you mean the ability to counter loops that are not so fast or so spinny, do I interpret this correctly?
I don't think you're too slow, it's likely just indecisiveness.
The key in my experience is anticipating and really committing to the shot so you take full control of the ball.
That means a hawk eye on the opponents racket and following the ball with my core rotation to the right to unload a full and proper FH.

Yes technique thing but also the rubber makes it hard to control these slower sidespinny balls very close to the table.
I just dont feel the ball sink in it and if I go for a bigger stroke the ball would fly out. But going too slow I eat the spin and it flys out uncontrolled. So in theory these shots should get better with a softer rubber too.

No soft loop like half long receive or slowe long drifting serves. I am good at working with incoming speed but if I have to add a lot of speed and spin myself my shots get uncontrolled. So I tend to loop more upwards because I am scared it will fly out otherwise. But if I loop too much upwards when the ball has barely any backspin it still goes out.
I think the video examples show it clearly what I mean. Just look at my fh opening and fh receive.
Counterloops don't occur that often actually. I remember one vs sarah after around 1min mark and in the 2nd video against the bald player with glasses only once.

R7 is somewhat 0 dangerous. My opp make more mistakes when I play with d09c but I remember back then they could block any topspin with R7.

Maybe Rakza Z is better? So far that and vega china.

 

[BHShoulderPain]

Think your FH can be faster. Also, your movement is kind of short, like in warm-up. I never play with D09C, but I have various H3s and G09C. The last one can work with short movement, but H3s don't tolerate that.

I can write about two possibilities:

1. Use of H3 (or similar) to improve your technique. Orange sponge is a bit easier. H3 requires fast and long movement, you need to create the arc with your body. Near the table, recovery can be a challenge, but at mid-distance it is OK. H3 on a flexible 5 ply blade is as easy as G1 on outer carbon. D09C could be the next step, or Vega China VM, or Andro NUZN 55.

2. Use of rubber that can work with your current technic. G1 could be that, but Mantra Pro (XH) is faster and more dangerous. Personally, I don't like G09C and the similar LAC, but many people recommend it as an easier D09C alternative.

#1 is spot on. You need to work on your technique. Everyone is different but you are fairly sized man so using h3 and just swinging at it is a way. There's a reason why ZJK preaches power first then consistency. You need your body to execute the power on the first place before you even think about getting it on the table.

I think you are focusing too much on the game aspect right now. Think more about your first video and how to make your forehands threatening when you are in the optimal position. You can incorporate it to half long and out of position loops later.

 

[tzifos]

I dont like the idea of going thinner sponge. That just would reduce the quality of my topspin since I have less thickness to work with.

I also believe g1 is not soft enough to feel enough difference compared to my setup.

As I have seen from these videos you wouldn't bottom-up even a 1.6mm-sponged rubber. 1.9 or 2.0 are more controllable than MAX so will help you use more power without loosing control. Anyway, it is just my opinion.

 

[BadHoney]

hybrid k3 is good and easy to use but i prefer d09c due to durability.

 

[victormanriquey]

The issue stems from the fact that you don't hit through the ball hard enough on most shots. Going with a softer rubber will alleviate it but the issue remains.

You need more of this FH @4:13, hitting at/near top of bounce. Look for that metallic, cracking sound. Same for BH.

Yes this is what I would say too, sound is often thin instead of what you hear at the end of first practice video where crack was present.

Yeah I seem to be able to do that only after my serve. During the rally I seem to end up taking it at later stages and hit it out if I go faster.

In drills I am really good with this setup. And can get that sound. But in match play it feels like if I want to loop I have to loop from a bad position or just float hit/float block the ball back.

Could it be that mentally you are braking your own technique (like in the start of the practice video, thin brush sound) because you are (perhaps unconsciously) afraid of the ball going long? 09c on forehand with 'chinese' technique like yours tends to have that effect due to high throw and catapult when activated properly, from personal experience.

I tend to loop more upwards because I am scared it will fly out otherwise.

this is what made me thought of the above, I gave some advice to a person the other week who had similar or a bit above your level and he had the same with too fast gear.

--
Like @belllfador said, I think you could still benefit from a the H3 orange boosted with your technique, you seem to already have a certain tendency on FH (from practice videos) to play as if you have H3 on it

 

[banbekas]

It’s nice to see people moving away from harder rubbers and switching to softer ones for more forgiveness.
It’s much easier to dig in and slap the ball with a softer sponge compared to brick-like H3 or other Chinese rubbers. Hard rubbers are less forgiving and harder to use. Even if you can handle them, the amount of spin you produce usually just reflects your actual skill level. You end up with a rubber that’s tough to spin with, doesn’t tolerate mistakes, and gives you only average spin if your level isn’t there yet.
Go with C1 or Vega Europe. You’ll probably play a lot better with them. Stay away from Vega China.

 

[NetProphet]

Yes technique thing but also the rubber makes it hard to control these slower sidespinny balls very close to the table.
I just dont feel the ball sink in it and if I go for a bigger stroke the ball would fly out. But going too slow I eat the spin and it flys out uncontrolled. So in theory these shots should get better with a softer rubber too.

No soft loop like half long receive or slowe long drifting serves. I am good at working with incoming speed but if I have to add a lot of speed and spin myself my shots get uncontrolled. So I tend to loop more upwards because I am scared it will fly out otherwise. But if I loop too much upwards when the ball has barely any backspin it still goes out.
I think the video examples show it clearly what I mean. Just look at my fh opening and fh receive.
Counterloops don't occur that often actually. I remember one vs sarah after around 1min mark and in the 2nd video against the bald player with glasses only once.

Yeah I get you
You just have to drive more fwd.

R7 is somewhat 0 dangerous. My opp make more mistakes when I play with d09c but I remember back then they could block any topspin with R7.

Trying to hit through players isn't the way forward.
That's why R7 is perfect. You consistently put the ball on the table and you use placement and spin to win points.
I think it was said before a lot about forgetting about results and work on your ability in the rally.
Let them block, it's technique you're chasing here not fastest rubber.
More blocks equals more rallys equals more consistent practice at what you need to be doing. Better the rally continues than ends with a mistake from you.
Otherwise just put T05 on Viscaria and close this thread! 😉

 

[Zezima]

#1 is spot on. You need to work on your technique. Everyone is different but you are fairly sized man so using h3 and just swinging at it is a way. There's a reason why ZJK preaches power first then consistency. You need your body to execute the power on the first place before you even think about getting it on the table.

I think you are focusing too much on the game aspect right now. Think more about your first video and how to make your forehands threatening when you are in the optimal position. You can incorporate it to half long and out of position loops later.

I know I need to work on my technique. I am actually working on it especially lately (I have another thread dedicated to just my fh form)

I don't know what you mean by "

You need your body to execute the power on the first place before you even think about getting it on the table.

You mean just hit it hard like 90%hit and 10% brush lets say not caring about whether they land on the table or not?
The first "thick" dude (2nd place currently in the league) plays like that. He was slapping these balls very hard. He missed some but if those landed on the table it didn't matter where he was aiming.

I am actually focusing only on fh form right now and 0 about the game. Thats why you see me playing as if I have no gameplan (tbh I had no gameplan). As you can see I was busy reacting to balls and could only think about topspinning when I had the serve (3rd ball attack). In the Rallys it felt like I had no time for a backhand loop because I saw it too late where they gonna play the ball. I am playing more on survival mode even then I ran out of time and did stupid mistakes by just holding the racket into the ball. But thats a different issue.

I was practising very simple fh topspins in my training and even if I do 2fh-2bh drills it works really good. But these better players tend to play balls where I just feel like I have no time. Even though against weaker players where I don't know where they are gonna loop I feel like I have all the time in the world. I even have time to think about placement, speed, spin variation against them.

vs Better players I am waiting for that random weak ball that looks like when warming up with fh. And even then I tense up and do a random bad looking fh stroke very far away from how it looks in the practise I think.

 

[victormanriquey]

It’s nice to see people moving away from harder rubbers and switching to softer ones for more forgiveness.
It’s much easier to dig in and slap the ball with a softer sponge compared to brick-like H3 or other Chinese rubbers. Hard rubbers are less forgiving and harder to use. Even if you can handle them, the amount of spin you produce usually just reflects your actual skill level. You end up with a rubber that’s tough to spin with, doesn’t tolerate mistakes, and gives you only average spin if your level isn’t there yet.
Go with C1 or Vega Europe. You’ll probably play a lot better with them. Stay away from Vega China.

I might be the only one then, but I do prefer a strict teacher that punishes when I do things wrong and rewards when done right. Plus that metallic crack sound, feeling, crazy spin, low throw angle and kick after the bounce of a well boosted H3 hitting through is still amazing

 

[Zezima]

Yes this is what I would say too, sound is often thin instead of what you hear at the end of first practice video where crack was present.

Could it be that mentally you are braking your own technique (like in the start of the practice video, thin brush sound) because you are (perhaps unconsciously) afraid of the ball going long? 09c on forehand with 'chinese' technique like yours tends to have that effect due to high throw and catapult when activated properly, from personal experience.

this is what made me thought of the above, I gave some advice to a person the other week who had similar or a bit above your level and he had the same with too fast gear.

--
Like @belllfador said, I think you could still benefit from a the H3 orange boosted with your technique, you seem to already have a certain tendency on FH (from practice videos) to play as if you have H3 on it

I honestly don't understand the h3 technique vs esn rubber technique. Care to explain further?

I also have no coach and h3 is even more exhausting to get good quality shots (tried it on my W968) and I had better time with a d09c instead. it was h3 blue 39° 2x boosted. Sponge feels so dead. Like I don't even know if I activate the sponge because there is no "kick" from the sponge to give me that feedback like a d09c for example.

So no I don't think I wanna go that route. Atleast not this season.

 

[victormanriquey]

You mean just hit it hard like 90%hit and 10% brush lets say not caring about whether they land on the table or not?
The first "thick" dude (2nd place currently in the league) plays like that. He was slapping these balls very hard. He missed some but if those landed on the table it didn't matter where he was aiming.

I don't think that ratio makes sense, it's all or nothing then. But as a principle, it's better to not just brush, the ratio depends on the incoming ball and your position, can be 50/50 or less/more depending on that. More hitting through means more dwell, thus more stability and speed/spin as you activate sponge and blade. I have a couple videos here that explain this well in my humble opinion: https://www.tabletennisequipmenthelp.com/technique-videos