Inverted player - Embarking on long pips journey with ALC Blade

[BackhandSteve]

Hello everyone

I have for a long time played with inverted rubbers on my blade. My playing style is straight up offence. I was the regional champion as a junior. I have also played nationals. But due problems with my shoulder I am going to switch to long pimples on my backhand in an effort to be able to play more table tennis. I have played a little bit with long pips before.

I currently have a Timo Boll ALC blade with a Dignics 09C and Stiga DNA Hybrid H on. Barely used because it was a bit too fast when it comes to short returns and returning the opponents serve. I have therefore played with Stiga Clipper Wood and DNA Hybrid M on both sides for a while. But it's just too heavy for my shoulder and it does not generate enough speed nor spin in competition. I have realised that I need a faster blade because it's just too easy for the opponent otherwise. Plus I have to "generate" a lot of power myself.

My first attempt at this is to try this setup:

Blade: Timo Boll ALC
Inverted rubber: Dignics 09C or DNA Hybrid H.
Long pip rubber: Dornenglanz ox (The original version).

However I have read that Desperado reloaded is a good long pips rubber. I have also seen players use long pips on Viscaria, which I dont have. But since Timo Boll ALC is "similar" i figured that it might work. I also plan on perhaps later on switch the inverted rubber to Tenergy 80 1,9mm. But we will see.

I will post updates here.

I would also appreciate your thoughts and own experiences.

Best regards
HandsomeSteve

 

[vanjr]

Good luck. I recommend picking a LP and sticking with it. Don't waste time searching for the perfect LP and blade combination-you will never find it.

 

[boretennis]

another one bites the dust

 

[Matteones]

Last year I tried to play as a modern defender for 6-8 months or so, mainly for the fun of it. What I can say is that it certainly was fun, and I felt my forehand was slightly stronger with a lighter and slower blade (tons of spin made up for the speed loss). When I actually wanted to win the match, though, I used the pimple as little as possible and attacked with both forehand and backhand as that's what I do best.
If your level is quite advanced as you say and want to use long pimples with 0 sponge, I suggest using the pips only to receive and disrupt short / sidespin serve and when the opponent gives you a heavy topspin. Medium - high level opponents will certainly target that pimple as it makes their life much easier, so flip that racket a lot and good luck. From national level up I see very few and "special" (as in the few who do, have a special style developed over many years) 0 sponge pimples, and the reason is that they take from you much more than they give you. Maybe have you considered short / medium pimple?

 

[PickleRick]

I was in the same situation as yourself. I played an offensive double inverted style but due to an injury I switched to pimples. I tried alot of combinations:

- OX pips on ALC blade: I didn’t like this. I had almost no control in chops and blocks and it was too unpredictable when I tried to attack
- OX pips on defensive blade: it had better controle but it was a style with a lot of limitations. I had to twiddle all the time to make it effective but ultimately I came to the conclusion that I did not like it.
- LP with sponge on defensive blade: it was great for chops against topspin and I had quite some fun with this setup. The only drawback was that I was only good at chopping against topspin. So I had to twiddle all the time to attack or to do pushes. It was frustrating against players who refused to loop.
- Medium pips on defensive blade: this is the setup I play now. It gives you more options than long pips. You lose some reversal and control on chops but it makes up for that with more offensive options and easier spin manipulation.

The only way to determine what works for you, is to try some stuff I guess. But in my experience, OX pips on an ALC blade is a very tough style to master. I felt like I was playing with a handicap.

 

[BackhandSteve]

Last year I tried to play as a modern defender for 6-8 months or so, mainly for the fun of it. What I can say is that it certainly was fun, and I felt my forehand was slightly stronger with a lighter and slower blade (tons of spin made up for the speed loss). When I actually wanted to win the match, though, I used the pimple as little as possible and attacked with both forehand and backhand as that's what I do best.
If your level is quite advanced as you say and want to use long pimples with 0 sponge, I suggest using the pips only to receive and disrupt short / sidespin serve and when the opponent gives you a heavy topspin. Medium - high level opponents will certainly target that pimple as it makes their life much easier, so flip that racket a lot and good luck. From national level up I see very few and "special" (as in the few who do, have a special style developed over many years) 0 sponge pimples, and the reason is that they take from you much more than they give you. Maybe have you considered short / medium pimples?

Hey. I have not considered short/medium pimples. But as you say my plan is to twiddle the racket a lot. At least for now. I cannot play with both inverted either way because of my shoulder. I have practice in a few hours so we'll see how it goes then!
Will consider medium pips if this wont work out. We'll see xD!

 

[belllfador]

Ilius B and S are LP with very hard and slow sponges. B is harder and has some reversal even with 1.3mm sponge. With 0.5mm will be lighter and with more reversal.

 

[BackhandSteve]

Update: 16/3

This was my first practice session with Timo Boll Alc, Dornenglanz ox (original) and Stiga Dna Hybrid H. And yes, I had to remove the Dignics 09C because the dornenglanz long pips were black, just like my dignics.

I enjoyed the session. The racket was much lighter than im used to since i have been playing with a 206gram racket before. The plus side of this was that I could play the entire practice with much less pain in my shoulder. Did not disturb me. This was the biggest plus side.

I also enjoyed chopping and blocking close to the table. And i enjoyed doing attacks with my long pips on serves etc. I could also smash/whip the ball on my backhand with long pips.

A funny thing: I realised that for some reason Im very good at chopping with my forehand. And I won more points when having long pips on forehand. And overall just twiddling. Returning serve to opponents backhand, they loop it to my backhand, I twiddle and then push out to forehand. Easy money right there.

Looking forward to playing more times with this setup. Will however have to get used to forehand looping with a light racket xD

 

[BackhandSteve]

Update

Hello ya'll. I have played with the setup two times. (Timo boll alc, dornenglanz ox and stiga dna hybrid H). And I must say the chopping and defending part is quite easy. The rubber grips the ball well. Have asked friends for advice regarding the weight since it is definitely on the lighter spectrum. Was told it was good. So i guess im just used to overly heavy rackets.

Also did some doubles matches in practice. Good experience. Enjoyed it and got in some nice chops far from the table and also some nice serve returns. You can be pretty aggressive with it. I think it just depends on how good you are with long pips in general.

Would recommend if you like a lighter racket with very easy to access power. You can also generate a lot of spin reversal when they are looping and you are defending. So that is very nice. But you need to find the right angles when defending otherwise the ball will fly out.

 

[Lando]

I used to play with LP on a viscaria (cpen), and found that if your game is aggressive with LP, then a viscaria works well.
If blocking is your game, then an all wood is the best. You have to absorb too much power passive blocking with viscaria

 

[BackhandSteve]

update 21/3

Yesterday i played some matches against a friend who is a very offensive attacker who also uses a carbon blade. And I must say I really enjoy this setup. The blade is ”thinner” because of no sponge on my long pips and therefore all of the sudden my backhand flicks on short serves, especially on short underspin, has improved significantly. I can almost always flick the ball. Since i also twiddle my racket my opponent said that he felt uncertain on serving fast no spin serves on my long pimples, which is a good strategy. But because i twiddle my racket he is scared to do that serve. Because i can attack it fast with my timo boll alc. this led to him playing his normal serves which was beneficial for me and my long pips. I can also chop with long pips on forehand. And I really recommend dornenglanz ox the original version. Because it is cheap and you can play both close to the table and far away. I also generate loads of underspin on my chops with caused problems for him. Overall im very satisifed. Will keep playing and giving updates.

 

[BackhandSteve]

This is probably my last update on this thread - 21/4.

I have practiced with long pips for a while now and also competed with it in a tournament. And just like some of you said above. I am constantly trying to find ways to play my forehand. The long pips is just to create opportunity for the forehand basically. When I played in the tournament I won 1 game and lost 2. So I did not make it to playoffs. They were playing very smart and was just focusing on my pips and serving no spin serves. Whenever i made a high ball they would just go around with forehand and finish the ball.

So Now I will switch back to inverted only! xD
My shoulder is feeling much better. I will get a light blade this time. I also fixed my forehand technique so overall i think this was a good experience and i learned some important things.

My backhand is just too good to be limited by a long pip rubber.

Cheers

 

[BackhandSteve]

Last year I tried to play as a modern defender for 6-8 months or so, mainly for the fun of it. What I can say is that it certainly was fun, and I felt my forehand was slightly stronger with a lighter and slower blade (tons of spin made up for the speed loss). When I actually wanted to win the match, though, I used the pimple as little as possible and attacked with both forehand and backhand as that's what I do best.
If your level is quite advanced as you say and want to use long pimples with 0 sponge, I suggest using the pips only to receive and disrupt short / sidespin serve and when the opponent gives you a heavy topspin. Medium - high level opponents will certainly target that pimple as it makes their life much easier, so flip that racket a lot and good luck. From national level up I see very few and "special" (as in the few who do, have a special style developed over many years) 0 sponge pimples, and the reason is that they take from you much more than they give you. Maybe have you considered short / medium pimple?

Hey dude. Can tell you what you wrote there, exactly what happened to me. So Im switching back to inverted only now xD.

 

[Matteones]

There's nothing like experience to convince you of something 😁

 

[belllfador]

This is probably my last update on this thread - 21/4.

I have practiced with long pips for a while now and also competed with it in a tournament. And just like some of you said above. I am constantly trying to find ways to play my forehand. The long pips is just to create opportunity for the forehand basically. When I played in the tournament I won 1 game and lost 2. So I did not make it to playoffs. They were playing very smart and was just focusing on my pips and serving no spin serves. Whenever i made a high ball they would just go around with forehand and finish the ball.

So Now I will switch back to inverted only! xD
My shoulder is feeling much better. I will get a light blade this time. I also fixed my forehand technique so overall i think this was a good experience and i learned some important things.

My backhand is just too good to be limited by a long pip rubber.

Cheers

After a year of EJ-ing, I found my type of BH pips - medium or hard sponge >1mm, MP (SDK, Pimple Slide with custom sponge) or hard LP (Ilius B, Sword Venom). Little to non spin reversal, but much more possibility for offense. Pips punches and semi-loops are relatively slow but so difficult to predict, with a good sinking effect. Pure nightmare for my opponents.

Occasionally, I switch to setup with both inverted rubbers, for comparison and keeping some of my old skills. But, with time, I prefer the pips more and more.

Are you able to twiddle? I am doing it under the table, before serve resiveing, also mid set. Still, I am too slow to twiddle under pressure. Think it is time to include UFO shot 😄

 

[BackhandSteve]

After a year of EJ-ing, I found my type of BH pips - medium or hard sponge >1mm, MP (SDK, Pimple Slide with custom sponge) or hard LP (Ilius B, Sword Venom). Little to non spin reversal, but much more possibility for offense. Pips punches and semi-loops are relatively slow but so difficult to predict, with a good sinking effect. Pure nightmare for my opponents.

Occasionally, I switch to setup with both inverted rubbers, for comparison and keeping some of my old skills. But, with time, I prefer the pips more and more.

Are you able to twiddle? I am doing it under the table, before serve resiveing, also mid set. Still, I am too slow to twiddle under pressure. Think it is time to include UFO shot 😄

Hey! Yes I am twiddling and i do it under the game. Played a tournament this past weekend. Main problem was when the opponent was too good against long pips. Then they would win. But when I met opponents that did not do the smart tactic i won quite easily. But twiddling during the game causes some ”easy shots fails” when you start being ambivalent on when to twiddle and not finding your timing. Depends also on the level i guess.

 

[BackhandSteve]

There's nothing like experience to convince you of something 😁

For sure 😂

First practice game after switching to inverted. My friend said damn your good. And I said i know.. my backhand is my best quality. Cannot limit it with a long pip. I have a easier time bh spinloop than fh spinloop. So im working on my forehand xD

 

[Matteones]

After a year of EJ-ing, I found my type of BH pips - medium or hard sponge >1mm, MP (SDK, Pimple Slide with custom sponge) or hard LP (Ilius B, Sword Venom). Little to non spin reversal, but much more possibility for offense. Pips punches and semi-loops are relatively slow but so difficult to predict, with a good sinking effect. Pure nightmare for my opponents.

Occasionally, I switch to setup with both inverted rubbers, for comparison and keeping some of my old skills. But, with time, I prefer the pips more and more.

Are you able to twiddle? I am doing it under the table, before serve resiveing, also mid set. Still, I am too slow to twiddle under pressure. Think it is time to include UFO shot 😄

The problem is that years and years of "game-sense" and in-point strategies have to be changed drastically when you pass from double inverted with a good backhand to long pips, and that takes time, often a long time, multiple seasons if you are at an advanced level (unless your game was already very niche, like Sabine Winter who found her golden egg goose because she already was an all-table forehand player).
When, after 6 months of using Feint III (which is the most similar to an inverted rubber among long pips), I noticed that I actually used it more and more like a very slow inverted rubber, especially when I had to score important points during a match, well I knew the experiment was finished

 

[BackhandSteve]

The problem is that years and years of "game-sense" and in-point strategies have to be changed drastically when you pass from double inverted with a good backhand to long pips, and that takes time, often a long time, multiple seasons if you are at an advanced level (unless your game was already very niche, like Sabine Winter who found her golden egg goose because she already was an all-table forehand player).
When, after 6 months of using Feint III (which is the most similar to an inverted rubber among long pips), I noticed that I actually used it more and more like a very slow inverted rubber, especially when I had to score important points during a match, well I knew the experiment was finished

😂👌

And yes I can confirm that I am no Sabine. And I think the most important thing for me was when I realised that you need your long pips to be as high a ”level” as you are with inverted rubbers. Its no ”easy” get away. You still have to put in the work and be skilled with the rubber