Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[TT Lover]

I went for my 3rd practice in 4 days last night. I played a few sets and my legs felt heavy & i wasn't moving well. Dignics 09c is the most unforgiving rubber I've ever used and i really struggled with it last night for the above reasons.

I also found that when i played against the top players at my club, they could handle the 09c's spin so i was forced to play extra shots when they got my initial FH loop back. For this reason i don't think I'll get much advantage from using it.

My game is more speed based than spin based, so I've made the decision to sell the 09c to a clubmate.

What rubber is good for speed based game in your experience.

 

[d3nium]

What rubber is good for speed based game in your experience.

I'm not a big EJ so others can probably answer better than me. But I've started using Mantra Pro M on my backhand and i really like it, it's fast, crisp and direct. I've just ordered Mantra Pro H to replace the dignics so i'll feed back when i use it.

Bonus is, it's really cheap to buy, you can get it for less than £30 on Aliexpress.

 

[dingyibvs]

I've been on a bit of an EJ binge. First got a new FZD ALC a couple weeks ago, 1g lighter than my current one. It's pretty remarkable how similar my FZD ALCs feel to each other, and how different they feel compare to my Viscarias and ZJK ALC which feel like the same blade just with a different handle. The FZD ALCs have so much more vibration and flex, shots have a bit more arc as well, just the way I like it. The new one is a bit slower than my current one, but I think it's fine as a backup blade.

I've also glued a D05 onto my FZD, intending to try something other than D09c on the BH side. Results are...interesting. I'm intrigued by how I can't feel anything with the D05. I can't feel the flex of the blade, there's no cracking sound when I power loop, and there's no slingshot sensation either. The sponge is softer, so I don't know why that is. The ball quality is quite good, has a nice arc when paired with the FZD blade. I'm not sure I like it. The performance seems good, perhaps even better suited for my game, but the sensation is just so bleh.

I also bought a DNA Platinum M, some people claim it's a solid pairing with the 968 due to its linear response like the H3 rather than being catapulty. It's obviously bouncier, softer, and not tacky, so that'll be rather interesting for sure. I'll keep an open mind, but the barrier to switching is a bit high so unless I love it then I'll stick to the D09C or H3 which I keep going back and forth with.

 

[Archosaurus]

Oh yeah; I also glued that old Focus 3 sheet onto the pimple bat. Crazy slow with a very strange sensation on strong shots, but it's very easy to play with in the 30-50% power range. Topsheet grip is a bit better after some olive oil soaking that might have destroyed some of the oxidation, although there's only so much that can be done to the sponge.

It should be a 2mm sponge, but honestly it feels more like 1mm. I don't like it at all; but it's playable on the forehand at least. I could not make it work on the backhand. I'll probably keep it on the pimple bat until my technique with it improves, then throw some real, fresh rubber on the inverted side.

It also shrunk a lot, looks like maybe 4-5mm, which suggests it was factory tuned!

 

[dingyibvs]

I went for my 3rd practice in 4 days last night. I played a few sets and my legs felt heavy & i wasn't moving well. Dignics 09c is the most unforgiving rubber I've ever used and i really struggled with it last night for the above reasons.

I also found that when i played against the top players at my club, they could handle the 09c's spin so i was forced to play extra shots when they got my initial FH loop back. For this reason i don't think I'll get much advantage from using it.

My game is more speed based than spin based, so I've made the decision to sell the 09c to a clubmate.

What did you use before? I used to not really understand it, as when I flip my racket and use D09c on FH (on both my FZD ALC and Q968) it feels effortless compared to the H3. But recently I tried out a clubmate's Rasanter C53 and DNA Platinum M on a Hugo HAL and I realized it can be a lot easier than even the D09c. The C53 still felt kinda hard like D09c but without the catch-and-release feel, but the DNA Platinum M felt like straight up easy mode, I can't seem to NOT hit into the sponge.

 

[TT Lover]

I'm not a big EJ so others can probably answer better than me. But I've started using Mantra Pro M on my backhand and i really like it, it's fast, crisp and direct. I've just ordered Mantro Pro H to replace the dignics so i'll feed back when i use it.

Bonus is, it's really cheap to buy, you can get it for less than £30 on Aliexpress.

Thank you sir.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

The Goon Squad is still operational? I'd thought the ITTF would have got you guys by now.

Shhhhh!!!

 

[d3nium]

What did you use before? I used to not really understand it, as when I flip my racket and use D09c on FH (on both my FZD ALC and Q968) it feels effortless compared to the H3. But recently I tried out a clubmate's Rasanter C53 and DNA Platinum M on a Hugo HAL and I realized it can be a lot easier than even the D09c. The C53 still felt kinda hard like D09c but without the catch-and-release feel, but the DNA Platinum M felt like straight up easy mode, I can't seem to NOT hit into the sponge.

I've been using G1 on FH and C1 on backhand for the last couple of seasons. I kinda figured that I'd be able to use 09c because G1 is pretty linear & hard, so i figured 09c would be a "upgrade"

In hindsight i wish i'd gone for something like Diginics80 instead, but you live and learn!

 

[Archosaurus]

Oh yeah; I also glued that old Focus 3 sheet onto the pimple bat. Crazy slow with a very strange sensation on strong shots, but it's very easy to play with in the 30-50% power range. Topsheet grip is a bit better after some olive oil soaking that might have destroyed some of the oxidation, although there's only so much that can be done to the sponge.

It should be a 2mm sponge, but honestly it feels more like 1mm. I don't like it at all; but it's playable on the forehand at least. I could not make it work on the backhand. I'll probably keep it on the pimple bat until my technique with it improves, then throw some real, fresh rubber on the inverted side.

It also shrunk a lot, looks like maybe 4-5mm, which suggests it was factory tuned!

Eh, you know, considering it again, I have so many near-free sheets of Chinese rubber that I still want to try out; why not just glue one of those on. I already know I don't like Focus 3.

Generally I'd try to be economical with things like these, but as an amateur, time is the most important resource. You only get so many practice hours. I don't have forever to try out stuff during the offseason.

That's what the EJ in me says to cope.

 

[dingyibvs]

I've been using G1 on FH and C1 on backhand for the last couple of seasons. I kinda figured that I'd be able to use 09c because G1 is pretty linear & hard, so i figured 09c would be a "upgrade"

In hindsight i wish i'd gone for something like Diginics80 instead, but you live and learn!

I see, the G1 is fairly hard, but D09c does have a kick after reaching a certain point which the G1 doesn't have. The G1 is more like the Hurricanes in that regard. I've never really tried D80 so not really sure how that would feel though.

 

[NextLevel]

I see, the G1 is fairly hard, but D09c does have a kick after reaching a certain point which the G1 doesn't have. The G1 is more like the Hurricanes in that regard. I've never really tried D80 so not really sure how that would feel though.

The power of D80 is that you can do everything and it has a relatively low trajectory vs the D05 which gives people less time when you drive even though the spin is not as heavy so there is a confidence limit. But if Mizutani could play with it, then the limit can't be that bad right? I'm pretty much back to it and dabbling with T19 as well, will end up with one of them for the near future.

 

[NextLevel]

I see, the G1 is fairly hard, but D09c does have a kick after reaching a certain point which the G1 doesn't have. The G1 is more like the Hurricanes in that regard. I've never really tried D80 so not really sure how that would feel though.

You really should try a softer and less sticky rubber like D80 or D05, not because it is necessary but because people underestimate the speed benefit. You do seem like the kind of person who might play best with D09c given your game, but again, these are all trade offs, and as you play better players, speed sometimes becomes more critical than consistent control, and the less sticky rubbers give both on shorter strokes though if you like power all the time on backhand, the harder spinnier stuff is better. But if you want to block and quick counter more, then the non-sticky stuff starts to shine more.

 

[dingyibvs]

You really should try a softer and less sticky rubber like D80 or D05, not because it is necessary but because people underestimate the speed benefit. You do seem like the kind of person who might play best with D09c given your game, but again, these are all trade offs, and as you play better players, speed sometimes becomes more critical than consistent control, and the less sticky rubbers give both on shorter strokes though if you like power all the time on backhand, the harder spinnier stuff is better. But if you want to block and quick counter more, then the non-sticky stuff starts to shine more.

It's not so much the speed that I'm against, it's just the feel or lack thereof with D05 that puts me off. BTW, how did you like the T19 compared to the various Dignics? During my hiatus I completely missed the T19 and T05H era, which seemed like they were pretty popular before the Dignics era.

 

[Tyce]

I see, the G1 is fairly hard, but D09c does have a kick after reaching a certain point which the G1 doesn't have. The G1 is more like the Hurricanes in that regard. I've never really tried D80 so not really sure how that would feel though.

Yes! I have been saying that G1 is closer to Hurricane than to Tenergy, while it's hailed as some sort of Tenergy-lite.
Every time I switch from Hurricane to G1 during a session I just couldn't miss with it. It's like H3 is a perfect training rubber for a G1 player

I'm not going to miss it though.

 

[Archosaurus]

You really should try a softer and less sticky rubber like D80 or D05, not because it is necessary but because people underestimate the speed benefit. You do seem like the kind of person who might play best with D09c given your game, but again, these are all trade offs, and as you play better players, speed sometimes becomes more critical than consistent control, and the less sticky rubbers give both on shorter strokes though if you like power all the time on backhand, the harder spinnier stuff is better. But if you want to block and quick counter more, then the non-sticky stuff starts to shine more.

One thing I noticed coming back to the game and comparing cell ball vs plastic ball even on modern compounds is that heavy spin just isn't that threatening anymore. I haven't been playing too long and I have little problems blocking slow opening loops, something that would have for sure been more difficult for me even at my best.

It only becomes threatening if the placement is very tricky (risky) or the ball is very fast as well.

Everyone talks about "high throw angle" and "high trajectory" or whatever but I'm having a lot more consistency and point-results by driving the ball more in loops.

Yes! I have been saying that G1 is closer to Hurricane than to Tenergy, while it's hailed as some sort of Tenergy-lite.
Every time I switch from Hurricane to G1 during a session I just couldn't miss with it. It's like H3 is a perfect training rubber for a G1 player

I'm not going to miss it though.

I don't really feel comfortable with anything on the forehand except tacky with dense sponge, so I guess I'll put G1 on the EJ list.

 

[NextLevel]

It's not so much the speed that I'm against, it's just the feel or lack thereof with D05 that puts me off. BTW, how did you like the T19 compared to the various Dignics? During my hiatus I completely missed the T19 and T05H era, which seemed like they were pretty popular before the Dignics era.

Tenergy 19 was after the Dignics era, 05H before . No free lunches unfortunately. I really liked Tenergy 19 because of thr tight arcs and high dwell. Not as explosive as T05 and not as quick a release for people who like that feeling, but the dwell time feels good and gives a feeling of more control on most shots. But sometimes all it takes is one match against someone you can beat playing with something else to influence your perception. I just couldn't figure out how to drive through the table with it when when I put it on thr Harimoto SZLC. So I will test on Viscaria SALC. Dignics 80, when I loop and counter with it, the ball goes through the table. Tight but low arc. Might not bother the other player with pure spin but the trajectory makes it easier to get the ball past the opponent if I put the ball on the right spot on the table. But I will try Tenergy 19 on the Viscaria SALC and if it doesn't solve my problem then I will just accept it and go back to D80. I need to work on my game so I dont embarrass myself if I go to Germany for the meet up.

 

[NextLevel]

One thing I noticed coming back to the game and comparing cell ball vs plastic ball even on modern compounds is that heavy spin just isn't that threatening anymore. I haven't been playing too long and I have little problems blocking slow opening loops, something that would have for sure been more difficult for me even at my best.

It only becomes threatening if the placement is very tricky (risky) or the ball is very fast as well.

Everyone talks about "high throw angle" and "high trajectory" or whatever but I'm having a lot more consistency and point-results by driving the ball more in loops.



I don't really feel comfortable with anything on the forehand except tacky with dense sponge, so I guess I'll put G1 on the EJ list.

Heavy spin is still threatening but the athletic component is much higher and the spin build up is also requires more athleticism. Even speed has issues as well as the ball tends to slow down when it goes off the table, in a worse way if you use the traditional topspin arc so many balls sit if you dont back up and give them forward momentum or if you dont drive through the table. All this makes the forward component of topspin much mlre important than it used to be and the old Timo Boll style essentially dead level relative as a point threatener and much more about variation and consistency. It takes about a 600 ,point difference for my spin to overwhelm and it is worse when the opponent can backup. Most of my points come off wide angles and redirect.

 

[Archosaurus]

Heavy spin is still threatening but the athletic component is much higher and the spin build up is also requires more athleticism. Even speed has issues as well as the ball tends to slow down when it goes off the table, in a worse way if you use the traditional topspin arc so many balls sit if you dont back up and give them forward momentum or if you dont drive through the table. All this makes the forward component of topspin much mlre important than it used to be and the old Timo Boll style essentially dead level relative as a point threatener and much more about variation and consistency. It takes about a 600 ,point difference for my spin to overwhelm and it is worse when the opponent can backup. Most of my points come off wide angles and redirect.

I read some (early) research papers and they claimed the plastic ball has a higher coefficient of friction against the table and also a higher coefficient of restitution, but I just can't believe that, not with the balls we use now, at least.

Even serves seem "slipperier" and it skips in a strange way; you need a lot of backspin for the ball to even care about the table.

 

[NextLevel]

I read some (early) research papers and they claimed the plastic ball has a higher coefficient of friction against the table and also a higher coefficient of restitution, but I just can't believe that, not with the balls we use now, at least.

Even serves seem "slipperier" and it skips in a strange way; you need a lot of backspin for the ball to even care about the table.

Any paper written before 2017 tests a ball bn no longer in use. DHS had its first ABS ball out then and since then ABS balls have been the standard. There are subtle differences and I personally hate the Nittaku balls that are dominant in the US (I play better with just about every other ball as they react to spin better and don't reward power like the Nittaku does). The Butterfly plays a bit lighter and is also a bit of an outlier as a ball. But the DHS, DFish, Gewo, Joola etc. are all fine with me.

 

[Archosaurus]

Any paper written before 2017 tests a ball bn no longer in use. DHS had its first ABS ball out then and since then ABS balls have been the standard. There are subtle differences and I personally hate the Nittaku balls that are dominant in the US (I play better with just about every other ball as they react to spin better and don't reward power like the Nittaku does). The Butterfly plays a bit lighter and is also a bit of an outlier as a ball. But the DHS, DFish, Gewo, Joola etc. are all fine with me.

I remember some experiences with the first ABS balls, but they were terrible. Not in use anymore obviously. Stuff would break mid-rally multiple times a day.

People here seem to mostly use DHS 3 star, Hueison 3 star and some other one, Gewo I think. They're not insultingly bad like the early plastic balls were. Just different.