Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[NextLevel]

I remember some experiences with the first ABS balls, but they were terrible. Not in use anymore obviously. Stuff would break mid-rally multiple times a day.

People here seem to mostly use DHS 3 star, Hueison 3 star and some other one, Gewo I think. They're not insultingly bad like the early plastic balls were. Just different.

First plastic balls. The ABS balls have always been good. Yes the Xu Shaofa were seamless and sometimes had cracks on racket edged hits but they were the best balls. The cellulose acetate deformed and cracked quickly and were legit bad. Nittaku had the first seamed ABS ball. And then once DHS and DFish made theirs, ABS balls are now the standard. Usually seamed.

 

[Dr Evil]

Tonight I listened to a heated argument about how to return sidespin serves. Voices raised, insults traded, some insults pretty good, but all for nothing because there was no disagreement. They were just confused about which sidespin they were talking about.

Left handed sidespin usually refers to the kind of spin produced by a right hander’s pendulum serve because contact is on the left side of the ball from the server’s perspective. But if you’re thinking from the receiver’s perspective, contact on the left side of the ball would be reverse pendulum.

Just use clockwise and counter-clockwise.

If you’re looking down at a side-spinning ball, clockwise (right-handed pendulum-type spin) and counter-clockwise (right-handed reverse-pendulum/backhand/hook/tomahawk-type spin) are the same for everyone.

 

[Archosaurus]

First plastic balls. The ABS balls have always been good. Yes the Xu Shaofa were seamless and sometimes had cracks on racket edged hits but they were the best balls. The cellulose acetate deformed and cracked quickly and were legit bad. Nittaku had the first seamed ABS ball. And then once DHS and DFish made theirs, ABS balls are now the standard. Usually seamed.

Oh, so it's not always been ABS. That'd explain it. It feels like a completely different material, sounds different too. The very early balls wouldn't bounce twice the same way, it pissed us off to no end, so bad we just went back to cell because we could.

Tonight I listened to a heated argument about how to return sidespin serves. Voices raised, insults traded, some insults pretty good, but all for nothing because there was no disagreement. They were just confused about which sidespin they were talking about.

Left handed sidespin usually refers to the kind of spin produced by a right hander’s pendulum serve because contact is on the left side of the ball from the server’s perspective. But if you’re thinking from the receiver’s perspective, contact on the left side of the ball would be reverse pendulum.

Just use clockwise and counter-clockwise.

If you’re looking down at a side-spinning ball, clockwise (right-handed pendulum-type spin) and counter-clockwise (right-handed reverse-pendulum/backhand/hook/tomahawk-type spin) are the same for everyone.

The primary source of disagreements in technical subjects is reference frames. Also one of the primary sources of bugs in technical code.

 

[dingyibvs]

Did a local tournament this weekend, had some ups and downs, overall did much better than a couple years ago. Last time we got eliminated in the group stage, this time we got 2nd! The venue was kinda crap, the tables were missing adjustable feet so they had to put books, stands etc. below the legs. One table in particular was visibly curving toward the middle because the stands were too high, and I lost all my matches played on that table. The highlight was in the finals, facing elimination in a doubles match (overall match score 1-2, so lose and we're out) against opponents that way outmatched us, down 0-2 in games and 6-10 in score, we managed to come back to win 12-10, then 13-11, then cruised to a victory with an 11-5 in the 5th.

Our opponent was a pair of 2 wing loopers, my partner is a RPB double-inverted player who didn't know how to loop. We were getting killed at first because my partner insisted on serving topspin which invariably gets killed, his pushes were getting punished hard by full body kill loops, and I was too timid in my attacks/counters. We adjusted by serving only backspin/no spin, varying push spin/speed/location so they have a bit more hesitation before looping, and I started counterlooping everything. That sent our opponents into a death spiral. They tried to add quality to their loops to make it harder for me to counter loop, at a moment when our pushes and comeback were giving them more hesitation, resulting in rapidly increasing mistakes by them.

The lowlight was in the 5th match for all the marbles. We were gonna play our #1 guy but was informed that each player can only play 1 singles (only told that in the finals, WTF?) so I had to step in to play the last match, on the uneven table no less. It was an emotional roller coaster, I lost the first set badly, then went 1-2 in the next 3 sets with games decided by 2 points to lose the overall tilt. My opponent was a lefty with a very good long to wide-FH then block down the line game, and I just didn't have the consistency to grasp my own opportunities.

After this I'm gonna do a bit of EJing, specifically gonna try out the DNA Platinum M 2.1mm on the BH vs. a FZD ALC/D09C/D05 setup. Preliminarily against the robot, I think I may actually like the DNA, which I didn't think I would. I'll have a practice session today so it'll be interesting to see for sure. I'm gonna start working on consistency and service/receives now, which should result in very quickly improving game.

 

[Tyce]

Had my first club session with fresh rubbers, and I was not disappointed. Both the T19 and T05 are going to take some adjustment time, but the short game so far was quite ok, better than I expected. FH push with T19 isn't really that much more difficult than with G1 and on BH my push game is stronger in general. Still need to build a lot of consistency with loops and serve. Especially close to the table, where the rubber does more work than the blade.

 

[dingyibvs]

Just finished a 4 hour training session with 2 practice partners back-to-back, main goal was to thoroughly test the two new setups, Q968 with H3/DNA P-M, and FZD with D09c/D05. The basic training portion went similar to my previous impressions, I was pretty set on the Q968 combo, and then the practice matches/points started. I was shocked by how the D05 performed in match situation. If I could describe it with one word, it would be automatic. Everything just worked, it just really responds to smaller motions. I mean, sure, it's fast and spinny as well, but I knew that already.

Still, after my first session with the first training partner, I was unconvinced. I'm just not used to the D05's feel, and I was hesitant about possibly getting worse in counterlooping with the D09c. I was still set on using the Q968 combo. But then I had my 2nd training session.

The training portion again went similar, I wasn't too thrilled with the D05's feel, and D09c tended to go long. But once again, when the practice points started, everything changed. The D05 was again automatic, and the D09c after minimal adjustments also became automatic. I was shocked yet again, but now I'm convinced the D05 can actually be my BH rubber. I then did a specific counterlooping test, where I pushed to my partner's FH and he looped to my FH, and the D09c actually counterlooped just fine. Perhaps it was the pairing of W968 and D09c that didn't work well for counterloops, or perhaps I've just gotten better at doing it, but I literally made every single one of them. Combined with the ease for D09c to attack lower energy balls like pushes and blocks, even if they're a bit easier to block, I think I was convinced.

So now I'm gonna switch to FZD/D09c/D05 setup. I know, it's a classic combo by now used by many, but I now see the merits of it. I'm gonna stick to it the next couple of months and see where it leads me.

 

[Tyce]

My elbow is flaring up for the first time in quite a while. I guess I must have overdone it on the "trying out the new rubbers" session. I do remember a couple of overly wild and uncontrolled hard balls of the exact kind that got me into trouble before. Gonna have to give it a rest now which is a bummer. I might be stubborn and just go play with a band on tomorrow.

It's hard to not immediately start doubting my choice of equipment though. But I should just stay determined and give it an actual summer and a season.

I did also finally manage to catch up with my new teammate. Worked out some last details and we sealed the deal for next season. Now all that stands in the way of promotion is that we're basically forming a new team. Despite all team members having made it to first place in our respective groups (same division) it's still up to the federation to decide if we get the promotion at this point. I would be quite pissed off if we don't get it though.

 

[NextLevel]

My elbow is flaring up for the first time in quite a while. I guess I must have overdone it on the "trying out the new rubbers" session. I do remember a couple of overly wild and uncontrolled hard balls of the exact kind that got me into trouble before. Gonna have to give it a rest now which is a bummer. I might be stubborn and just go play with a band on tomorrow.

It's hard to not immediately start doubting my choice of equipment though. But I should just stay determined and give it an actual summer and a season.

I did also finally manage to catch up with my new teammate. Worked out some last details and we sealed the deal for next season. Now all that stands in the way of promotion is that we're basically forming a new team. Despite all team members having made it to first place in our respective groups (same division) it's still up to the federation to decide if we get the promotion at this point. I would be quite pissed off if we don't get it though.

Elbow flaring up could be many things. But it is always important to work on strength on table tennis and with the new balls, to actively work on incorporating a movement that rotates the shoulders on the forehand and uses the hips on the backhand so that the core is engaged on all power strokes. Also helpful to learn how to follow through with the body on smaller backswings for smashes and flicks and translate it into looping when you have no time. Trying too hard to get powert with the elbow/arm is not fun. But sometimes it could just be the weight of the new setup that needs to be handled. If one isn't committed to strength, not a bad idea to change back, though without some analysis it isn’t necessarily the best answer. I also find that for me, while the lower three fingers can help with having a great grip, they are also the three fingers that encourage tightness in the elbow. So I have worked on improving the use of the thumb and index finger in facilitating my grip to reduce the strain that the lower three fingers place on the elbow for many shots. Still a process but it is helping.

 

[NextLevel]

Decided to get back on an aggressive low carb diet, likely going to go the ketogenic route, i just feel best and between the satiety and the reduced aches and pains, it is probably best if I want to continue to play. Had my first day of amazingly pain free table tennis in a long time. It is clear that I have to place hard limits on carb intake, likely restricting them to a fixed measurable amount or eliminating them entirely on most days. I usually struggle with the electrolytes management but I have decided that that is an easier problem than all the pain I feel while playing. I have succeeded on this in the past but carbs are addictive. I just have to keep reminding myself that it is not worth it. Also, sardine fasts seem to force ketosis fairly easily so I will rely on those quite. Hopefully won't drive away my wife and kids...

Also struggling to get practice time and I need to work a lot on my forehand so I have decided to downgrade my blade speed significantly for a couple of weeks. Might go back to fast blades after, but maybe not. At this point this is more about exercise than anything else and then maybe I can get something good from the stability.

 

[Tyce]

Elbow flaring up could be many things. But it is always important to work on strength on table tennis and with the new balls, to actively work on incorporating a movement that rotates the shoulders on the forehand and uses the hips on the backhand so that the core is engaged on all power strokes. Also helpful to learn how to follow through with the body on smaller backswings for smashes and flicks and translate it into looping when you have no time. Trying too hard to get powert with the elbow/arm is not fun. But sometimes it could just be the weight of the new setup that needs to be handled. If one isn't committed to strength, not a bad idea to change back, though without some analysis it isn’t necessarily the best answer. I also find that for me, while the lower three fingers can help with having a great grip, they are also the three fingers that encourage tightness in the elbow. So I have worked on improving the use of the thumb and middle finger in facilitating my grip to reduce the strain that the lower three fingers place on the elbow for many shots. Still a process but it is helping.

I find myself using way too much arm when I'm focused on stuff like new equipment, which gives a lot of sensations through the hand that need to be processed.
So much that I disconnect from the lower body a lot, meaning no footwork but still having the illusion I can hit the same power. I can, but it costs me my elbow

I really need to get a lot more focus back on the lower body again. I can use minimal strokes that way.

 

[Tyce]

Decided to get back on an aggressive low carb diet, likely going to go the ketogenic route, i just feel best and between the satiety and the reduced aches and pains, it is probably best if I want to continue to play. Had my first day of amazingly pain free table tennis in a long time. It is clear that I have to place hard limits on carb intake, likely restricting them to a fixed measurable amount or eliminating them entirely on most days. I usually struggle with the electrolytes management but I have decided that that is an easier problem than all the pain I feel while playing. I have succeeded on this in the past but carbs are addictive. I just have to keep reminding myself that it is not worth it. Also, sardine fasts seem to force ketosis fairly easily so I will rely on those quite. Hopefully won't drive away my wife and kids...

Also struggling to get practice time and I need to work a lot on my forehand so I have decided to downgrade my blade speed significantly for a couple of weeks. Might go back to fast blades after, but maybe not. At this point this is more about exercise than anything else and then maybe I can get something good from the stability.

Hey I don't know half of the situation, but when I read it what popped up for me that it could also be about specific foods rather than the nutrient values.
For instance I just handle beef so much better than pork. Milk makes me feel sluggish. I'm not allergic to anything but one source of protein is different from another and it's the same for carbs (corn chips vs potato chips for example). Might be an angle worth exploring if you haven't already.

 

[Archosaurus]

Hit for the first time with the T5000 setup; honestly, I like it a lot. It suits me a lot more than SPW. It's similar speed, maybe very slightly slower, and I found it hard to spin up the ball in the first minutes, but I got used to it quick, and blocking is a lot easier for whatever reason. Chopping was fine too. Handle and balance is a lot more how I like it.

I also just like the vibration feeling a lot more; tighter and more controlled, but to be completely honest, I have a hard time telling Koto/Kiri from Limba/Ayous.

Sanwei advertises the +2 layer as "carbon fiber" but that's for sure carbonized wood, so it's really more like a 7ply wood blade.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Domo arigato gozaimashita Senpai Takkyu_wa_inochi !!

Shhh! Don't tell anyone. I am on a secret Goon Squad mission in Hong Kong. I need to find the Director of the Hong Kong Goon Squad, Si-Hing JeffM, to fulfill my mission of getting a 9 points handicap from him!!!

10:25pm now in Hong Kong.

Mission is a go for 8 am tomorrow!

Q: Who wins??? JeffM or OSPH?

A: TTD/DTTCCers win!

Wish me luck DTTCCers!!

 

[NextLevel]

I find myself using way too much arm when I'm focused on stuff like new equipment, which gives a lot of sensations through the hand that need to be processed.
So much that I disconnect from the lower body a lot, meaning no footwork but still having the illusion I can hit the same power. I can, but it costs me my elbow

I really need to get a lot more focus back on the lower body again. I can use minimal strokes that way.

It depends on the fitness/health of the racket side of our body and the leg on the other side but ultimately, the best quality always involves minimizing/limiting the upper arm range and maximizing the core rotation, especially when it comes to speed of preparation or optimality of follow through. Many people focus on optimal backswing, but there is also a place for smaller backswing and optimized follow through, Unfortunately, it is too easy to do this with just the arm and not the core.

 

[Tyce]

Happy to report, no elbow issues tonight! I had a good slow warmup in the form of a recreational older player. I also put a lot of attention on not using my pinky finger to clutch the end of the handle. It's a bad habit for TT but something I do a lot on my computer mouse to take the strain off other fingers.

Still working on the rubbers, of course. I had a bit too many things to pay attention to so that wasn't ideal. Blocking got better, I managed a bit of chopping which was actually pretty safe. Landing chops well is always a good sign for me, means I'm getting the feel of it.

My main issue actually is that pinky problem right now. Both for staying out of injury and getting good strokes and contact.

Ended the session with 30 squats and 20 pushups. Figured that the best time to do them is right after playing so I have the most recovery time for my middle aged body I could use some more muscle.

 

[NextLevel]

Happy to report, no elbow issues tonight! I had a good slow warmup in the form of a recreational older player. I also put a lot of attention on not using my pinky finger to clutch the end of the handle. It's a bad habit for TT but something I do a lot on my computer mouse to take the strain off other fingers.

Still working on the rubbers, of course. I had a bit too many things to pay attention to so that wasn't ideal. Blocking got better, I managed a bit of chopping which was actually pretty safe. Landing chops well is always a good sign for me, means I'm getting the feel of it.

My main issue actually is that pinky problem right now. Both for staying out of injury and getting good strokes and contact.

Ended the session with 30 squats and 20 pushups. Figured that the best time to do them is right after playing so I have the most recovery time for my middle aged body I could use some more muscle.

Yes, those lower three fingers just add elbow strain in some way. I wish I knew the anatomical link but it doesn't matter, I have gotten less stress on my elbow just by using thumb and index finger as the focus.

 

[Archosaurus]

Yes, those lower three fingers just add elbow strain in some way. I wish I knew the anatomical link but it doesn't matter, I have gotten less stress on my elbow just by using thumb and index finger as the focus.

Flexor carpi ulnaris runs basically from the pinky to the elbow IIRC.

I had a lot of issues with the boundary between the tendon and muscle being tight, which made a lot of my forearm muscles congruent with eachother. What it resulted in was finger, hand and wrist pain when doing some things, and limited RoM in the fingers relative to eachother. My forearm muscles would get worn out doing basically nothing.

Fixed it with pressure work and scraping on the elbow where the tendons meet the muscle and along the muscle; extremely painful momentarily, but extremely effective. Could feel a rush of warm blood into the fingers after some of those.

 

[Tyce]

I'm seriously considering taping or bandaging my pinky to my ring finger to prevent further clutching. The more I think of it the more I notice it's actually quite a dominant finger in my day to day life.

In other things I had on my mind yesterday, I am actively trying to keep my wrist from opening up and playing almost a fade as standard but it feels very unnatural combined with the improved grip. My brain says I'm hitting the ball out of the left side of the table but it lands pretty decently on the FH corner. Perhaps stepping my right foot a little bit more backwards will help with the feeling.

The last major thing I remember is third ball positioning after short serve vs long serve. Short usually comes back short, long almost always comes back long. Very useful basic pattern right there.

 

[DrBean]

I'm seriously considering taping or bandaging my pinky to my ring finger to prevent further clutching. The more I think of it the more I notice it's actually quite a dominant finger in my day to day life.

In other things I had on my mind yesterday, I am actively trying to keep my wrist from opening up and playing almost a fade as standard but it feels very unnatural combined with the improved grip. My brain says I'm hitting the ball out of the left side of the table but it lands pretty decently on the FH corner. Perhaps stepping my right foot a little bit more backwards will help with the feeling.

The last major thing I remember is third ball positioning after short serve vs long serve. Short usually comes back short, long almost always comes back long. Very useful basic pattern right there.

Fun fact - your index finger is actually your least useful finger. Anyway, in this case you might be better served by thinking about pinching the blade with your index and thumb - kind of naturally forces the rest of your hand to relax, whereas it's relatively hard to actively relax something.

 

[JeffM]

testing 1,2,3...

testing 1,2,3,...

Loud and clear...


I’ve had the privilege to meet Oldschoolpenholder face to face today after knowing him for almost a decade!
(He created his acc in 8/2016 and we joked about spotting each other 9 points but never had the chance to do so. ) With fate, I moved to work in Hong Kong and he happened to visit Hong Kong for a week. Despite our busy schedule and relatively short notice, we managed to find a mutual time to meet and booked a court.

I booked a court for 2 hours, the court was quite limited in space with not much room to move back at all. Resulting in often shorter stroke in fear of swinging my bat into the wall.

We warmed up for roughly an hour, then we played a game best of 5, then another best of 5 but we each spotting each other 9 points. Then another game best of 5. And finally a shorter game best of 3.

Post your predictions for the outcome of each of the games played! I shall release the videos of matches later!

First match best of 5
Second match best of 5 but starting 9-9 each set
Third match best of 5
Fourth match best of 3

Factors to be considered:

Mutual:
- Both not used to playing at 8am as we often play at night
- Both walked alot recently (OSPH has been walking around in HK, and I went to Disneyland the day before)
- Both rusty (OSPH has not played competitively for 4 years, and I have not for 2 years)

OSPH:
- Almost double my experience

Myself:
- unable to straighten my arms out today as I restarted gym 2 days ago (from 6 month break) and the arm muscles are too sore to be straightened out.

Here is a teaser photo of us having breakfast post TT