SP Carbon

[Sriver1]

Loki alc from catalogue.

 

[mamedium]

At the risk of sounding like a school teacher - Please move on. Everyone.

Either back to the topic of SP Carbon, or simply onto another thread.

There is much more to life.

Thanks.

the conspiracy is Egon has beef with Pechpong (he may have lost 9-11 in the 5th against PP) so he is using argument with SDC to derail the thread

 

[biaxialerzug]

Wonder how they put it so precisely in the butterfly blade matrix

 

[NextLevel]

The thread honestly wasn't that off-topic, the thread starter should have complained much more if he felt it was. And in all honesty. the SP blade is not on the market yet. The thread would be largely dead.

That said, SP's brother is my current coach, maybe I will ask him about it if I remember. I am sure Seth himself will ceete more videos about the process etc when the time comes.

 

[NetProphet]

Stirlitz has never been so close to failure! you, Vanya, have 8 messages and all of them are in defense of russian athletes, or full of hatred for me and my country and not a single constructive or useful message for this world.
I would like to appeal to the moderators to leave everything as it is, so that people would see who we are dealing with.

PS. Stirlitz is a character in the film "17 Moments of Spring", who was a secret agent of the USSR, who was an officer in the German headquarters during World War II. The film is of course complete crap, I do not recommend it for viewing, but the characters are colorful and we have a lot of "catchphrases" from it.

Ok,ok
But.....
With all the evidence in front of you, what composition do you think is most likely correct in this case?
Just use percentages and determine most likely scenario.

You have to admit at this stage, that (as you said yourself) despite not knowing for sure untill you have a disassembled blade in from of you, that in the world of blades, what Timo used in the past, uses now, the photos, your own intellect (completely disregarding your beef with SDC etc), it is, in all likelihood an Ayous core.
And you are simply defending the possibility of the less than 1% chance of something else.

What's the point in defending this as if it is the most likely answer, when you already know that it is clearly an outlier possibility?

 

[Egon]

Ok,ok
But.....
With all the evidence in front of you, what composition do you think is most likely correct in this case?
Just use percentages and determine most likely scenario.

You have to admit at this stage, that (as you said yourself) despite not knowing for sure untill you have a disassembled blade in from of you, that in the world of blades, what Timo used in the past, uses now, the photos, your own intellect (completely disregarding your beef with SDC etc), it is, in all likelihood an Ayous core.
And you are simply defending the possibility of the less than 1% chance of something else.

What's the point in defending this as if it is the most likely answer, when you already know that it is clearly an outlier possibility?

Good question!

If someone finds it difficult to read long texts, then in short, for me it looks like this. For Timo Boll's blade, the likelihood of using limba is higher. For massed blades, the likelihood of using ayous is higher.

I can't say in percentages, but I can share my thoughts on this matter. Maybe these are just my imaginations, don't judge strictly.
If I were making a blade for Timo Boll, I would make it with a limba, because Timo has quite short movements and he needs a faster blade. Compare Timo Boll's game with Joo Se Hyuk if not washed in quarterfinals, and then the next day Zhang Jike's game, who played Viscaria, with Huyck and you will see how different the amplitude of movements of these two athletes is.
We made blades with both ayous and a limba. With a limba, the blade is faster and clearly plays better with short movements.
However, to maintain weight and balance, you need to choose a very light limba, and this will be a problem with mass production. Therefore, it is quite likely that a light limba was used for Timo Boll, and for mass production - ayous. Although limba is not excluded 😅 I'll take this blade apart and see what's there.
The fact that Timo Boll's blade was very different from the blades, that went on sale in mass production, is already evidenced by the data that neoprene or some other synthetic substance was used in its blade handles to hold the handle more firmly in the hands. And such material was not used in blades for mass sale. This is the material that Butterfly used much later in the limited edition of Timo Boll's blades for the 30th anniversary.

It is also possible to use a denser ayous for the blade that Timo used, but it will not play like a limba, and the weight of the blade will increase. There are many questions here, how to make this blade faster, but still controllable. Increasing the thickness, for example, is not suitable - because it will reduce control. Using a denser wood for the core entails an increase in weight and a shift of the balance to the head. Stronger carbon makes the blade stiffer. And other technical questions...
But option of ayous cannot be canceled in any case!
But if there really is an ayous, why not say so and close this issue?
If Timo Boll's blade actually had a limba, and for the rest of us - an ayous, what will it all look like? Therefore, it is better for the manufacturer to remain silent and create this fog that exists now? Maybe that is why Butterfly never publishes the composition of its blades?

PS. Pech, you already owe me for advertising your blade like this!

 

[Egon]

And I also really don't like categorical statements and the confidence in a person that everything is simple and exactly as he thinks.
For me, this is evidence that a person knows very little in this matter. Because if you represent everything unknown to us with a piece of paper, then part of our knowledge is just a dot on this sheet. If you start to learn more, then the dot becomes larger and you start to touch with a larger part of the unknown. That is, increasing knowledge, we increase what is unknown to us.

 

[biaxialerzug]

In this Video the handle looks like normal wood. Why do you think it’s synthetic?
I think it’s just a gimmick for the anniversary edition.

 

[Egon]

In this Video the handle looks like normal wood. Why do you think it’s synthetic?
I think it’s just a gimmick for the anniversary edition.

There is a separate thread for this topic 🤣🤣🤣

 

[Zwill]

From Seth’s private video on YouTube, the manufacturer is Loki.

Ooof, 175USD for basically a Loki made TB ALC when the Butterfly blade is 185USD. I don't think it will sell too well. Better value in sending the guy a 25-50USD donation and buying a second hand TB ALC 🌚

 

[SDC]

Speaking of a separate topic, I already had this discussion years ago (did you even build blades back then?), and made a very clear post about it: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/butterfly-blades-the-whole-truth.26547/

Do I have a categorical judgment? Of course I do, it's called experience, backed with knowledge and facts, not feelings and conjecture. I don't consider myself an expert, I'll leave that judgment to others, but it's laughable that you consider yourself one. My point was never about what TB himself uses (there you go derailing the discussion again), it's about what's in the TB ALC market blade. You'll probably never know what he uses unless you get his personal blade to disassemble, I would just need a clear picture from the side of the handle 😉. Remember, next time you go to the doctor for some pain, remind him to skip right ahead to surgery, so he can take a really good look at what's inside, without even taking an MRI first and making a diagnosis.

Now just please get a TB ALC and disassemble it, if you have any basic knowledge you will come to the conclusion it is Ayous. Just don't forget to document it so everyone will believe your amazing discovery!

*I really like the handle design on the SP Carbon! (there, I stayed on topic 😁).*

 

[Faker]

Speaking of a separate topic, I already had this discussion years ago (did you even build blades back then?), and made a very clear post about it: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/butterfly-blades-the-whole-truth.26547/

Do I have a categorical judgment? Of course I do, it's called experience, backed with knowledge and facts, not feelings and conjecture. I don't consider myself an expert, I'll leave that judgment to others, but it's laughable that you consider yourself one. My point was never about what TB himself uses (there you go derailing the discussion again), it's about what's in the TB ALC market blade. You'll probably never know what he uses unless you get his personal blade to disassemble, I would just need a clear picture from the side of the handle 😉. Remember, next time you go to the doctor for some pain, remind him to skip right ahead to surgery, so he can take a really good look at what's inside, without even taking an MRI first and making a diagnosis.

Now just please get a TB ALC and disassemble it, if you have any basic knowledge you will come to the conclusion it is Ayous. Just don't forget to document it so everyone will believe your amazing discovery!

*I really like the handle design on the SP Carbon! (there, I stayed on topic 😁).*

U-turn🤣🤣

Cheers
F-kr

 

[SDC]

U-turn🤣🤣

Cheers
F-kr

True 😅, but my intention was to show a topic about the subject, as not to derail this one even further. He can answer there if he wants.

 

[Egon]

Speaking of a separate topic, I already had this discussion years ago (did you even build blades back then?), and made a very clear post about it: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/butterfly-blades-the-whole-truth.26547/

Do I have a categorical judgment? Of course I do, it's called experience, backed with knowledge and facts, not feelings and conjecture. I don't consider myself an expert, I'll leave that judgment to others, but it's laughable that you consider yourself one. My point was never about what TB himself uses (there you go derailing the discussion again), it's about what's in the TB ALC market blade. You'll probably never know what he uses unless you get his personal blade to disassemble, I would just need a clear picture from the side of the handle 😉. Remember, next time you go to the doctor for some pain, remind him to skip right ahead to surgery, so he can take a really good look at what's inside, without even taking an MRI first and making a diagnosis.

Now just please get a TB ALC and disassemble it, if you have any basic knowledge you will come to the conclusion it is Ayous. Just don't forget to document it so everyone will believe your amazing discovery!

*I really like the handle design on the SP Carbon! (there, I stayed on topic 😁).*

I am not an expert and I cannot even call myself a blade maker...
I wrote that these are just my thoughts and opened up to everyone although I could very well not do it.
And you immediately poked me in an open soft spot, but I will only become stronger from this.
You are wasting your time on me again. It reminds me of the saying - I ran after you 100 meters to say that I don't care about you.

 

[mamedium]

party is over??

being sober is very important

 

[Egon]

party is over??

being sober is very important

On this topic, which is not the topic of this thread, everything has probably been said. Although...
If communists or rashists pop up, stock up on popcorn - I will entertain you, unless the moderators ban me again 🤣

 

[Egon]

party is over??

being sober is very important

I agree with you, it was fun, sometimes a little sad, but not boring. But that's all Life is. You guys can't even imagine how you want to live when you understand that because of the damn war, life can change radically in a minute. Sometimes the feelings are somewhat similar to the movie Knockin' On Heaven's Door.

 

[NetProphet]

Good question!

If someone finds it difficult to read long texts, then in short, for me it looks like this. For Timo Boll's blade, the likelihood of using limba is higher. For massed blades, the likelihood of using ayous is higher.

I can't say in percentages, but I can share my thoughts on this matter. Maybe these are just my imaginations, don't judge strictly.
If I were making a blade for Timo Boll, I would make it with a limba, because Timo has quite short movements and he needs a faster blade. Compare Timo Boll's game with Joo Se Hyuk if not washed in quarterfinals, and then the next day Zhang Jike's game, who played Viscaria, with Huyck and you will see how different the amplitude of movements of these two athletes is.
We made blades with both ayous and a limba. With a limba, the blade is faster and clearly plays better with short movements.
However, to maintain weight and balance, you need to choose a very light limba, and this will be a problem with mass production. Therefore, it is quite likely that a light limba was used for Timo Boll, and for mass production - ayous. Although limba is not excluded 😅 I'll take this blade apart and see what's there.
The fact that Timo Boll's blade was very different from the blades, that went on sale in mass production, is already evidenced by the data that neoprene or some other synthetic substance was used in its blade handles to hold the handle more firmly in the hands. And such material was not used in blades for mass sale. This is the material that Butterfly used much later in the limited edition of Timo Boll's blades for the 30th anniversary.

It is also possible to use a denser ayous for the blade that Timo used, but it will not play like a limba, and the weight of the blade will increase. There are many questions here, how to make this blade faster, but still controllable. Increasing the thickness, for example, is not suitable - because it will reduce control. Using a denser wood for the core entails an increase in weight and a shift of the balance to the head. Stronger carbon makes the blade stiffer. And other technical questions...
But option of ayous cannot be canceled in any case!
But if there really is an ayous, why not say so and close this issue?
If Timo Boll's blade actually had a limba, and for the rest of us - an ayous, what will it all look like? Therefore, it is better for the manufacturer to remain silent and create this fog that exists now? Maybe that is why Butterfly never publishes the composition of its blades?

PS. Pech, you already owe me for advertising your blade like this!

You have literally ignored my question.
You have also kinda ruined this thread.
Nothing you are saying is relevant. It's like a mentally ill patient believing something with no way to adequately explain why he thinks or believes it.
You are usually far more reasonable than this. It seems you've dug a hole that you don't want to climb out of 🤷

 

[Egon]

You have literally ignored my question.
You have also kinda ruined this thread.
Nothing you are saying is relevant. It's like a mentally ill patient believing something with no way to adequately explain why he thinks or believes it.
You are usually far more reasonable than this. It seems you've dug a hole that you don't want to climb out of 🤷

1. I answered your question both briefly and extensively.

2. It's good that I've ruined this thread a bit so far, but I understand that there's still more to come

3. Why are you asking me questions then, if what I'm going to tell you is irrelevant? It looks like mental disorders and reminds me of the proverb - "He doesn't see the beam in his own eye, but he sees the speck in mine".

And finally.
This post of yours has nothing to do with the topic we're discussing. There's nothing constructive. It's just trying to get me into a negative emotion.
Your entire post in short:
- You didn't answer,
- You ruined this fhread,
- You dug yourself a hole,
- You're not sensible,
- You're saying something that doesn't make sense, and so on.
I see it all.
One more post like that and I'll add you to the ignore list.

 

[zeio]

In the patent application for Butterfly AL/ALC blades, it's explicitly stated the 2nd ply is Ayous.

2nd wooden ply 🫣

Why do you think it's referred to as 5+2 and 3+2?

In the patent, the sample constructions are referred to as 5A to 5D and 3E to 3H.

【００２６】なお各サンプルにおける「５」と「３］の数値は補強層を除く木質板のみの積層枚数を示している。

([0026] The numbers "5" and "3" in each sample indicate the number of layers of wood boards only, excluding the reinforcing layer.)

If you want to play that game, then the technical term should be crossband.

For future reference. Butterfly Global follows the practice in the patent of excluding the reinforcing layer when referencing the construction, calling the medial ply as the second layer.

The Japanese 上板 (top board)/特殊素材 (special material)/添え芯 (supporting core)/中板 (center board) correspond to 面材 (face wood)/合成纖維 (synthetic fiber)/力材 (strength wood)/芯材 (core wood) in Chinese.

Manufacturing Processof Butterfly Blades
https://www.butterfly-global.com/en/story/process-blade/

ラケットの製造工程
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/story/butterfly_technology/blade.html