Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Archosaurus]

I'm much more inclined to think your measurement is wrong than the manufacturer, because Shore A 23.5 would make Tenergy somewhere around 33 ESN, and that's obviously not the case.

Scales are not directly comparable on nonlinear elastomers. Even on Chinese rubber the methodology doesn't add up, and a 40A sponge can measure 40A but measure anywhere from 49 to 55 O typically.

Dignics sponge measures 46 and is reported as a 40, so with the less progressive Tenergy sponge, at 36 hardness, I would not be surprised if it's closer to 40. Eventually I'll get a Tenergy 05 sheet for myself and just post numbers.

FWIW my measurement doesn't differ more than 1deg from what ESN claims for their products. My Europe Vega DF for example measured 37.3 - 37.5, with a claimed hardness of 37.5. Nittaku rubbers also measure exactly. So I don't think my durometer is miscalibrated.

Bear in mind that if you press the durometer into the sponge, it will measure harder artificially. You just need to sink the needle.

 

[jonol]

Well, you can post whatever numbers you like but I can assure you that no one is going to believe you that Tenergy is 23.5 Shore A/33 ESN, a full 14.5 degrees less than Fastarc G1 - and 12.5 degrees lower than Butterfly's rating.

Your readings are clearly not consistent, if not entirely wrong.

 

[Archosaurus]

Well, you can post whatever numbers you like but I can assure you that no one is going to believe you that Tenergy is 33 ESN, a full 14.5 degrees less than Fastarc G1.

Your readings are clearly not consistent, if not entirely wrong.

Tenergy is not 33 Shore O because that's not how this works at all. The only time you can compare scales is when you're measuring a rubber brick that has no progression whatsoever. These 2mm thick elastomers with complex air cavity geometry are really far from that. Especially Spring Sponge. To get an idea you'd need to measure it with at least 3 scales which sink to different depths, then test with other models as a control.

Fastarc G-1 is 47 - 47.5 O.
Tenergy 05 Hard is 29.5 A.
Dignics 09C Commercial is 32.5 A.
Dignics 09C JNT is 34.0 A.
Dignics 80* Commercial is 46.0 O.
Dignics 05 CNT is 32.5 A.

EDIT: And if the scales have different indenter head shapes and thus different contact pressure, it's not comparable anyway. A and O differ. To get an actual accurate measurement, you'd need to change the spring without changing the head. As per ASTM D2240 the maximal spring force is 8.065N although the actual contact force differs, I think O is 12N while I don't remember A.

EDIT 2: A and O are 8.065N spring and both have 12.5N contact force at 100.

A tip area is 1.96mm^2 and O tip area is 4.45mm^2. This isn't *really* accurate but it's relatively comparable to get the idea.

12.5 N / 0.00000196 m^2 = 6.377,551 Pa or 6.38 MPa.
12.5 N / 0.00000445 m^2 = 2,808,989 Pa or 2.81 MPa.

Point I'm trying to make is that even if the maximum contact force is the same and the indenters are the same length (2.5mm), you're going to get quite different real results when measuring anything that's not fully solid.

That nifty conversion that says O is roughly 10-13 higher than A is pretty usable if what you're measuring is dense and large. I find Chinese sponges in the harder measurements don't differ so much from that. +-5% K roughly.

 

[NextLevel]

If I go to a club, I will do the two I recommend. I could definitely do the pancake one without going to a club.

So the qualiry ans video length is expect are to be higher than this but posting thoa so that people realize ir is not impossible. I do want to give away blades lol.

 

[Archosaurus]

So the qualiry ans video length is expect are to be higher than this but posting thoa so that people realize ir is not impossible. I do want to give away blades lol.

Does bouncing the ball on the bottom of the handle count? Totally not posting this because that's the only trick I do on my breaks and I have an unfair advantage.

 

[NextLevel]

Does bouncing the ball on the bottom of the handle count? Totally not posting this because that's the only trick I do on my breaks and I have an unfair advantage.

Its not on the pre approved list unless Freitas did it in the video above and if not amd you decide to submit it, good luck!

 

[Archosaurus]

Its not on the pre approved list unless Freitas did it in the video above and if not amd you decide to submit it, good luck!

I can do about 8. Maybe 10 on a good day. Does that at least get me a picture of a blade?

 

[v100ev]

So somehow this seems to be the thread for random tt stuff..
As a TT enjoyer I could not not share this with you guys (should be timestamped to 27:24)

 

[SorryForTheEdge]

If you're looking for a Dignics-lite you should consider Glayzer, Rozena is more like nerfed Tenergy

Tried both Glayzer and Dignics 05. I wouldn't say Glayzer is Dignics-lite, but rather Zyre-lite as the feeling of the ball sink matches more while Dignics feels different. I would suggest FastArc G-1 or Tibhar Hybrid MK as dignics-lite rubbers.

 

[NextLevel]

So somehow this seems to be the thread for random tt stuff..
As a TT enjoyer I could not not share this with you guys (should be timestamped to 27:24)

No, it is not for random TT stuff. It ia a thread for you to share your training or things that have captured your current TT focus. You could create a thread for something like this though if you can tie it to your personal TT, sure you can make it belong here.

 

[Archosaurus]

Played a bit vs relatively low-skill players (U1200? Whatever is the cutoff for casual players) and I'm starting to be able to control the game in a relaxed way again. Pushing short and low mid-rally, dropshots, fake loops with no spin, really spinny loops that land just in front of the net and so on. Not just winning with aggression or pure spin level.

A lot of these guys serve incredibly illegally and get quite good spin on the serve too, and I was able to loop them over the table and adjust the depth instead of just touching everything long or playing with a lot of pace and spin borrowed from the ball. It's nothing to decent players but I'd lost it over my break.

Just a few months earlier I still had to try a bit to stay in the game and not get wiped out because of my own mistakes, but now I can mess around again because I don't really make any consistency errors, which should be a good sign.

It won't immediately transfer to playing with 1500+ players but it's a step forward I think.

 

[J-fed]

I’m very nervous about sticking and cutting my own rubbers so I get another coach to do it.
Back in the day I used to mess it up So bad.
I’d splinter the blade or cut the rubber jagged or on an incline so the rubber face was smaller than the blade. Just inept.
How are these sticky sheets you see? I’m guessing they have an effect on playing characteristics.
Also do they splinter the blade surface?
Is blade varnish still a thing and is it good/bad?
Many things I would like to know before I try this again.
Advice would be welcome but please keep it simple. I’m terrible at this.

 

[J-fed]

No, it is not for random TT stuff. It ia a thread for you to share your training or things that have captured your current TT focus. You could create a thread for something like this though if you can tie it to your personal TT, sure you can make it belong here.

Oh right. Apologies for my other thread then. This is the place for discoveries and progress etc. Cool.

 

[jonol]

I’m very nervous about sticking and cutting my own rubbers so I get another coach to do it.
Back in the day I used to mess it up So bad.
I’d splinter the blade or cut the rubber jagged or on an incline so the rubber face was smaller than the blade. Just inept.
How are these sticky sheets you see? I’m guessing they have an effect on playing characteristics.
Also do they splinter the blade surface?
Is blade varnish still a thing and is it good/bad?
Many things I would like to know before I try this again.
Advice would be welcome but please keep it simple. I’m terrible at this.

I'd try use a pair of small tailoring scissors, since they're designed to be able to cut denser materials. They make cutting rubbers extremely easy.

Don't try to cut it flush with the blade, you can leave a 1-2mm gap.

 

[NextLevel]

Oh right. Apologies for my other thread then. This is the place for discoveries and progress etc. Cool.

Nothing wrong with starting your thread. Web forums are IMHO for conversations. Just pointing out the original intent of this thread, it juat snowballed and lasted longer than anyone expected.

 

[dingyibvs]

Played in the local Chinatown tournament again. Barely made it out of the group this time but had some good fun. It was a tough group, a bunch of my clubmates were on a different team (my team was formed a couple years ago, before I became a regular at my current club), and they just happened to be in my group. The other team in my group beat us in the finals a couple tournaments ago. I actually played pretty well, helps to have some experience in these type of settings now. We lost to the previous champs again, but managed to oust my clubmates' team. I won both my singles and doubles against them.

I've been on quite an EJ binge lately, thinking about settling on a setup now. Maybe I'll just use the FZD ALC and be done with it. My FH is still much stronger than my BH, so it's been really hard for me to move away from the 968 series, but at some point of time I need to just bite the bullet and start really using my BH in games. I've been practicing my BH a lot and trying to gradually work it into the game, but I always end up relying on my FH and I feel like it's been a crutch that's really slowing down my BH development progress. I need to get into a virtuous cycle where I really use my BH a lot, which leads to more progress which leads to using it more. I think the FZD is a very well FH/BH balanced blade which will help me achieve my goal.

 

[J-fed]

Nothing wrong with starting your thread. Web forums are IMHO for conversations. Just pointing out the original intent of this thread, it juat snowballed and lasted longer than anyone expected.

Rogered

 

[Tyce]

2 weeks left before the first match of the new season, and last Thursdays introduction to my new bat has given me a lot of doubt. It feels like the rubbers, while great themselves, are calling me to put them on a more controlled blade. At this point I'm not even sure if the Innerforce ALC is going to be that, or if I need to dial it back to Ma Lin Carbon. If I go further back down, Glayzer will no longer work on it so then I need to go 2x Rozena...


Doubts and confusion aside, I have noticed from this how advanced blades pair up better with advanced rubbers and beginner friendly blades are more in sync with beginner friendly rubbers.

 

[Amaken23]

2 weeks left before the first match of the new season, and last Thursdays introduction to my new bat has given me a lot of doubt. It feels like the rubbers, while great themselves, are calling me to put them on a more controlled blade. At this point I'm not even sure if the Innerforce ALC is going to be that, or if I need to dial it back to Ma Lin Carbon. If I go further back down, Glayzer will no longer work on it so then I need to go 2x Rozena...


Doubts and confusion aside, I have noticed from this how advanced blades pair up better with advanced rubbers and beginner friendly blades are more in sync with beginner friendly rubbers.

Had this feeling too Went downwards from Andro Hexer Grip to DHS Tinarc 5 back in the day since I wanted a slower FH rubber with little catapult effect to practice my FH technique. On Hexer Grip shots just went out of the table majority of the time. People are afraid to try 'lower' end rubbers in general, it seems, even if that helps them long term in developing their technique...even though with right technique you can hit and spin almost as hard as with advanced rubbers which are sometimes 2-3 times more expensive.

 

[NextLevel]

2 weeks left before the first match of the new season, and last Thursdays introduction to my new bat has given me a lot of doubt. It feels like the rubbers, while great themselves, are calling me to put them on a more controlled blade. At this point I'm not even sure if the Innerforce ALC is going to be that, or if I need to dial it back to Ma Lin Carbon. If I go further back down, Glayzer will no longer work on it so then I need to go 2x Rozena...


Doubts and confusion aside, I have noticed from this how advanced blades pair up better with advanced rubbers and beginner friendly blades are more in sync with beginner friendly rubbers.

How many hours a week do you play? You need a commitment device. I get that the league system encourages some discipline and commitment since you have to perform for the team but the most important thing is never what you use but mastering what you use.