Pre Season Training & Matches

[Zezima]

The equipment is so irrelevant tbh. Whether you use T19, D09c, G1, or any other rubber, you will play better shots by learning to brush the ball and play with more weight transfer and a faster swing.

At some point you need to get over the fear of missing if you want to be an offensive player.

No its not irrelevant. Some Rubbers you can play better quality shots more often at your playing level than with others. I can confidently say that nowadays. Will it make you automatically a better player? Nope. I did a personal test by playing with 2 different rubbers on the same blade and I did end up playing more often the quality shots with one than the other.

The fear of missing increases if you just train with 1 ball or in matchplay (also during warmup). You also kind of feel bad when the other has to collect more balls than hitting.

 

[jonol]

Sure, different rubbers will make an immediate difference in match play. Some will be easier or harder to play certain shots.

But as you've said, this doesn't make you better as a player.

All of the rubbers you've listed will generate very high quality shots if you play with more commitment and you brush the ball. The differences between them are real, but they pale in comparison to the difference in quality that can be generated by how you play the shot.

 

[Zezima]

Sure, different rubbers will make an immediate difference in match play. Some will be easier or harder to play certain shots.

But as you've said, this doesn't make you better as a player.

All of the rubbers you've listed will generate very high quality shots if you play with more commitment and you brush the ball. The differences between them are real, but they pale in comparison to the difference in quality that can be generated by how you play the shot.

ye but lets be honest in real matchplay how often do we stand perfect to the ball and get the perfect timing on top of that? If I get positive feeling from the equipment it wants me to continue trying. If I don't understand the feeling I get from the rubber I tend to play more safe and slow down a lot cuz I don't know how the rubber is gonna produce that shot.

Since I have 2 setups and I already like the g1 on the other setup I will try 2 backhand rubbers. A fresh R7(I prefer something more dangerous for my opp) and something else maybe T05fx?

I figured I like if the rubber gives a distinct sound like the g1 or even T19 when activated. With the dull sound of R7 I am really bad at saying this shot was good or not even though it's quite easy to make it land on the other side even though its not dangerous.

 

[J-fed]

The video is consistent with your earlier statement that you serve that "low" backspin serve, because it works so well in games. If i was to guess i would say you probably create around 30 rps of backspin with that serve. if you are training the 3rd ball attack like in the past video where the other guy just lifted the ball long back to you then there is probably at max 20 rps of backspin in the ball which makes it very easy to power loop for a winner. If it is high enough you could even blast it past the opponent even if you did not know how to properly create topspin.

now when doing the exercise with this current training partner we see the big difference. he does push properly giving his own backspin to the equation making the ball returned having heavier spin than you give him. this is why you quite often have trouble looping it with your current forehand technique.

this training partner clearly has some technical education because he does not only have feel but also quite stable shots all around.

You having a miserable time trying to attack the 3rd ball is the logical result of the way you like to play your forehand currently. even the "loop" against blocks where at most 50% spin 50% power if not more on the power side. If you struggle to have consistency getting an incoming topspin or blocked ball over the net then the issues are more severe and it is only logical that the nightmare continues if you use such a technique to try to loop a backspin ball.

i think you can even hear it quite well. Some topspin loops vs block have a more muted spinny sound but all faster ones are more slaps with a harsh sound. Sometimes the ball is high enough or the incoming topspin is enough for you to clear the net with the slappy technique, but the consistency is obviously not there.

i have fought until now in my reply not to mention the equipment and i don't know what you are using right now. I would not advise you to switch it so close before the season but i think you might have missed a great opportunity to find something that supports your forehand loop development better during the past season break. If i was you i would simply accept that with the current setup and technique you are only able to slap loop real high or empty medium high balls and not think about changing equipment during the season.
For the next season break i would advise you to find a forehand rubber that basically does not work with your slap loop technique and forces you to get that habit out of your system, so you learn a proper loop against any type of ball, especially heavy to mid heavy backspin balls. If you fail over and over with the slap technique i hope it will unlearn to use this technique as first response to incoming push balls.

The other alternative is of course to build your system around your current ability which is what most people do.

good luck.

OOF. I love Germany.

 

[J-fed]

No noone plays those rubbers. I personally thought about trying out t05fx since t19 is also the lil bro of t05.
I personally am more worried about my backhand rubber atm. D09c is spinny good to block with and if I stand right I can loop with it but with the R7 I do less unforced errors but for some reason it's very "tame" and the rubber doesn't give a life signal that I just activated the sponge or something. But it works the ball mostly lands on the table still. But since I am missing that feedback still I am not using it on difficult shots thinking I will do a mistake. It's my 3rd Session with it this time around I had used this rubber on my old blades back in the days. I think I am cooked this season and have to play unprepared.

You are not cooked and will perform well because you love TT and are dedicated to incremental improvement. You believe in your set up and will ignore that chatter for the rest of the season. You know that for each small miistake that this bat caused there is an equivalent winning shot it bought for you.
You know that this is the set up for you and this year and you are looking to make it work.
Let's go. FK 'em up.

 

[Lula]

I think if you have open racket angle the ball will go over even if you do not accelerate against backspin so can basically lift the ball. If you have good energy in the stroke you are forced to hit upward with an open racket angle so the ball will go out, so get punished by having good energy in the ball. But works playing softer spinnier loop with more racket angle, but
Also think the same against block. If the racket angle is to open you will more flat hit. With a more closed angle you will get more spin, and more arc so the ball will not go into the net or out. But of course if the racket angle is to close you will get to thin stroke.

Once again as long as you create spin in your stroke it is good. But if the ball keep going in the net or out i think you do not create enough spin or taking the ball really low under highest point. If good footwork and hit the ball at highest point you do not need so much spin.

Very easy to get to focues on how to do strokes. As long as it is functional and works then it is good.

 

[Zezima]

I think if you have open racket angle the ball will go over even if you do not accelerate against backspin so can basically lift the ball. If you have good energy in the stroke you are forced to hit upward with an open racket angle so the ball will go out, so get punished by having good energy in the ball. But works playing softer spinnier loop with more racket angle, but
Also think the same against block. If the racket angle is to open you will more flat hit. With a more closed angle you will get more spin, and more arc so the ball will not go into the net or out. But of course if the racket angle is to close you will get to thin stroke.

Once again as long as you create spin in your stroke it is good. But if the ball keep going in the net or out i think you do not create enough spin or taking the ball really low under highest point. If good footwork and hit the ball at highest point you do not need so much spin.

Very easy to get to focues on how to do strokes. As long as it is functional and works then it is good.

Lula what is your playing level? are you even higher rated than me?

You can have a more open racket angle but with the same forwards movement. Then it will clear the net. If you close the racket angle and brush no matter what it will go into the net. More spin makes it dip faster even. Sometimes I have the feeling I am teaching people here instead of getting advice myself.

 

[Archosaurus]

Lula what is your playing level? are you even higher rated than me?

You can have a more open racket angle but with the same forwards movement. Then it will clear the net. If you close the racket angle and brush no matter what it will go into the net. More spin makes it dip faster even. Sometimes I have the feeling I am teaching people here instead of getting advice myself.

You might want to consider how professional players get so much speed while still getting the ball to land down on the table when they hit it from under the net height.

Hell, I play extremely badly compared to you, and I can probably still film a demonstration video for this some time. I'm sure you can do it too.

 

[Lula]

I find with an open angle it just makes it easier, then you can lift more or just brush it in. More closed you can go forward and hit more over the ball but probably need to go more for it. Edit: probably easier at our level to have a bit more open angle and brush more up. I think if higher level players that play with more energy will hit the wall with to open angle.

Edit again haha: i think it easy to get to black and white. Of course sometimes you have to have more open angle and go more up and when play hard more forward. I agree that if we come with to little power and go to much forward or with closed angle it will go down, so mostly like that when trying to play harder. Against block i think it is good to try come over the ball to create spin.

Was an okey division one player(Swedish third division) around ten years ago. Have had som health issues so have played less. Changed to penhold one year ago. Still think i would do okey in division 2 in Sweden.

I have coached part time 15 years with good coaches and i think technique is relative. Different schools of thought. But i do think with plastic ball players go more forward and at higher level we want the power to go forward as much as possible and not upwars. I do think the top women players have a more open racket angle in backhand both in backspin and against block and still seem to get good spin.

I think i would beat you but do not always translate into knowing tabletennis and coaching so not always good looking at playing levels.
Feels like we are pretty similar that we like to think about technique. I am pretty certain i would have become a much better player if i did not liked this and wasnt coaching. Easy to just think to much and change, then never get good at anything haha

I think you will have to be ready for comments when you post videos asking for advice and you will probably not always agree.

Keep up the good work. It seems like you are making progress

 

[biaxialerzug]

The equipment is so irrelevant tbh. Whether you use T19, D09c, G1, or any other rubber, you will play better shots by learning to brush the ball and play with more weight transfer and a faster swing.

At some point you need to get over the fear of missing if you want to be an offensive player.

Yes but some equipment can hinder your progress! But there are different approaches and different views on this topic

 

[Zezima]

I find with an open angle it just makes it easier, then you can lift more or just brush it in. More closed you can go forward and hit more over the ball but probably need to go more for it. Edit: probably easier at our level to have a bit more open angle and brush more up. I think if higher level players that play with more energy will hit the wall with to open angle.

Edit again haha: i think it easy to get to black and white. Of course sometimes you have to have more open angle and go more up and when play hard more forward. I agree that if we come with to little power and go to much forward or with closed angle it will go down, so mostly like that when trying to play harder. Against block i think it is good to try come over the ball to create spin.

Was an okey division one player(Swedish third division) around ten years ago. Have had som health issues so have played less. Changed to penhold one year ago. Still think i would do okey in division 2 in Sweden.

I have coached part time 15 years with good coaches and i think technique is relative. Different schools of thought. But i do think with plastic ball players go more forward and at higher level we want the power to go forward as much as possible and not upwars. I do think the top women players have a more open racket angle in backhand both in backspin and against block and still seem to get good spin.

I think i would beat you but do not always translate into knowing tabletennis and coaching so not always good looking at playing levels.
Feels like we are pretty similar that we like to think about technique. I am pretty certain i would have become a much better player if i did not liked this and wasnt coaching. Easy to just think to much and change, then never get good at anything haha

I think you will have to be ready for comments when you post videos asking for advice and you will probably not always agree.

Keep up the good work. It seems like you are making progress

No but if you are coaching someone and he nets often it's very obscure to tell him to close your racket angle more.

Anyway in my new club in Swiss a rich guy got us a coach and payed him full season in advance so till april or so every Friday we will have him. He is from Czech Rep and his name is Michal Kubat. played vs the likes of Franziska P. when they were ~14y and now plays I think in 2nd highest League in Swiss so like 3 Divisions higher than where I will play. Crazy thing is cuz of injuries etc he didn't make it to pro and still has that level without training for 12years. He mainly coaches and plays his league matches.

The video is in german but tldr: He exposed my weakness. I was def not prepared for this fast of multiball. Basically saw that I am not loading against these faster balls. And that I am breaking my motion at contact. Sometimes hit too late. He also said I am moving too much with the right foot. When he was 1 month in china they looped standing on the ground maybe only lifting the right heel but never moving distances. It also sucks for the next ball which I agree and happened here to me aswell. I don't know if we will be able to fix anything with just 1x a week multiball but this already made me push to my limits. You can see in the video how my technique even breaks and looks worse by having a not so stable arm. It kind of wiggles during the shot. I also produced some of my highest quality shots in this session compared to the sum of my past training sessions xD. In a real match I would go half ass or block these shots. 6:46 was the best but for some reason my arm follow through looks terrible. I don't know maybe I am too fixated on how my follow through looks so different each time and I should worry only about the ball that I produced. In this session I just tried to listen and do what he said. So there was no capacity left to think about how my follow through looks or anything else. Enjoy the Video it might help someone who is at the same stage at me.

 

[Archosaurus]

No but if you are coaching someone and he nets often it's very obscure to tell him to close your racket angle more.

What if he's netting them because he doesn't get enough friction on the ball because he's afraid of hitting it out due to the open racket angle?

 

[jonol]

Lula what is your playing level? are you even higher rated than me?

You can have a more open racket angle but with the same forwards movement. Then it will clear the net. If you close the racket angle and brush no matter what it will go into the net. More spin makes it dip faster even. Sometimes I have the feeling I am teaching people here instead of getting advice myself.

If you close the angle, you can hit with more power and generate more spin, which will make it clear the net but also dip instead of going out.

Hitting powerful topspins consistently is about finding the right balance between the angle you're hitting at and the amount of power you put into the ball.

In matches sometimes you are late to the ball, so you can't generate as much power and open the angle. In other cases the ball pops up and you can take it early, so you can kill the ball with a closed angle and hit with very high power.

But you are hitting by default with less power and an open angle, even when you have good opportunities to kill the ball.

 

[Zezima]

If you close the angle, you can hit with more power and generate more spin, which will make it clear the net but also dip instead of going out.

Hitting powerful topspins consistently is about finding the right balance between the angle you're hitting at and the amount of power you put into the ball.

In matches sometimes you are late to the ball, so you can't generate as much power and open the angle. In other cases the ball pops up and you can take it early, so you can kill the ball with a closed angle and hit with very high power.

But you are hitting by default with less power and an open angle, even when you have good opportunities to kill the ball.

show me your power and your closed racket angle. I want to see your more powerful shots maybe I can learn from it

 

[jonol]

show me your power and your closed racket angle. I want to see your more powerful shots maybe I can learn from it

I don't really record myself playing, but Oh Junsung is a good example of someone who plays with a very horizontal stroke and closed angle.

 

[Lula]

I find it hard changing technique as an adult. I hade some adult groups before. I think they need to do a lot of shadow play and multiball or be very interested and motivated as you. Also need to know if it is worth to do the change or maybe it is good enough. Maybe more important to make it work in a match.
Cool that you have a coach! I think multiball will help you!
Think it looks like you doing the strokes a bit bigger, that i think is good. Last video i commented on i think you did not do whole strokes. By turning up the body a bit more i think the forearm also get more loose since the arm go out on the side. Will also get some more hip in the stroke, like it looks like he wants you to do in the end of the video. As long as you have the time.
Also think you have nice sound in the hit.

Did he say something about opening against backspin with backhand? Thinkn you could benefit here aswell to try to do a little bigger stroke, start the stroke a bit earlier so you get some power already to break the backspin, go from elbow and tense/stop the motion so not as wobbly. Also think pro players push a bit from the legs.

Interesting about the right foot. I understand that if it moves to much it is like carrying something from the ground on ice, no power. When i started you wanted forehand feet with left foot in front. Nowadays i think players do not do this. Feel like you have to turn the right feet a little if you stand pararell/no forehand feet to get some some motion.
Feel like it always squeaks from pro players feet a lot when pro plays, especially the chinese so think they move the feet a bit.
I feel like pro players all do a bit different, more or less body. As long as there is some body in the stroke to get safety and power. I think players in general turn up much less since they priotize backhand aswell. Jorgic almost nothing and more arm. I do think many focus more on moving hip back and front and less at turning up today but of course different playing styles and ideas.

Lol, i seriously believe that we are almost to interested in tabletennis and how to play. Good as a coach but so easily to destroy your own play haha.

How much do you play? any time for gym? You look really tall. Need to be pretty fit i think to be able to move well.

Keep up the good work

 

[kindof99]

No but if you are coaching someone and he nets often it's very obscure to tell him to close your racket angle more.

Anyway in my new club in Swiss a rich guy got us a coach and payed him full season in advance so till april or so every Friday we will have him. He is from Czech Rep and his name is Michal Kubat. played vs the likes of Franziska P. when they were ~14y and now plays I think in 2nd highest League in Swiss so like 3 Divisions higher than where I will play. Crazy thing is cuz of injuries etc he didn't make it to pro and still has that level without training for 12years. He mainly coaches and plays his league matches.

The video is in german but tldr: He exposed my weakness. I was def not prepared for this fast of multiball. Basically saw that I am not loading against these faster balls. And that I am breaking my motion at contact. Sometimes hit too late. He also said I am moving too much with the right foot. When he was 1 month in china they looped standing on the ground maybe only lifting the right heel but never moving distances. It also sucks for the next ball which I agree and happened here to me aswell. I don't know if we will be able to fix anything with just 1x a week multiball but this already made me push to my limits. You can see in the video how my technique even breaks and looks worse by having a not so stable arm. It kind of wiggles during the shot. I also produced some of my highest quality shots in this session compared to the sum of my past training sessions xD. In a real match I would go half ass or block these shots. 6:46 was the best but for some reason my arm follow through looks terrible. I don't know maybe I am too fixated on how my follow through looks so different each time and I should worry only about the ball that I produced. In this session I just tried to listen and do what he said. So there was no capacity left to think about how my follow through looks or anything else. Enjoy the Video it might help someone who is at the same stage at me.

He was a good coach. I did not hear what he said. But based on his hand motion, he pointed that you did not start/load from your leg for those forehand strikes. I think that was good coaching. It is easy to start with shoulder/hand instead of leg when one pivots a little bit. The body should be rotated by leg to hit the ball, not jump to hit the ball. If your leg move/jump too much, basically it means your body jumps with your leg, no good rotation.

 

[Zezima]

No he didn't comment on my backhand. I also told him to look at my fh powerloops.
Ye my front shoulder is sore today. I will try to apply what he said next week. Lower the intensity a bit aswell and don't come from too much back. He has a short backswing aswell I did a very long one. And it looks like I am whipping curvy with the arm all the time. It's not firm and linear like he showcased it not sure how to explain it.
This is the first video I have him every friday if we don't have a match on that day. I will record each session and maybe by the end of the season I will have improved (something hopefully ) Also interesting to learn if 1x a week with a coach is enough for progress.

 

[J-fed]

No he didn't comment on my backhand. I also told him to look at my fh powerloops.
Ye my front shoulder is sore today. I will try to apply what he said next week. Lower the intensity a bit aswell and don't come from too much back. He has a short backswing aswell I did a very long one. And it looks like I am whipping curvy with the arm all the time. It's not firm and linear like he showcased it not sure how to explain it.
This is the first video I have him every friday if we don't have a match on that day. I will record each session and maybe by the end of the season I will have improved (something hopefully ) Also interesting to learn if 1x a week with a coach is enough for progress.

Depends how much you take on board I think. You seem to have a complex thought process. Maybe take two or three simplified key points and have them in mind pre-season. I’m sure there’ll be some progress towards ironing them out.
And perhaps put the other 3 bats in a frame on the wall. Or even better, at a relative’s house in another city. This will be quite a benefit I think.
Love your bat is worth 2 points a game imo. And 2 points at the end of the set. The points that matter can’t be won if you doubt your bat.