Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[kindof99]

I think that there are several reasons that most amateurs can not improve.
1. knowledge, most amateurs do not know why and how to properly execute a shot; If you do not have a good coach, you would have to watch a lot of videos and try out for yourself, which most amateurs can't do.

2, change of habits, most amateurs just can not and do not want to change especially senior players with long time of playing habits.

3, persistence, any strikes require a lot of practice for muscle memory, but people will fall in to the old habit very quickly as it is more comfortable.

 

[Archosaurus]

@Tyce gave some comments on your video. I agreed with most of them. From what I saw is that you probably would like to practice driving with your body first. You won't really have good power and consistency by the way of snapping your forearm to contact the ball. To really get better, spend a month on using your leg/body to drive. It will definitely help your game in the long time.

Could you look at these pictures and tell me in each of them how the timings are wrong?

In my opinion the only major issues are that I don't load my feet correctly in 2 (right foot too forward and to the left, so I roll onto the outer foot instead of pushing off it) and my arm is slightly leading in 3. In 4 my left leg could also have lunged a bit forward, stepping with the foot, for a shot like that.

Is the timing *completely* wrong and it's a 100% arm swing, or is it more subtle in your opinion?

EDIT: Oh, and my posture could probably not change so much. I don't see a reason to lean a bit backwards during the swing. Should probably be more neutral, or even forward.

EDIT 2: Hell, some energy's going upwards when it probably ought not to.

Can't find the timing mistakes though apart from that subtle lead.

 

[kindof99]

Could you look at these pictures and tell me in each of them how the timings are wrong?
View attachment 43461

View attachment 43462
View attachment 43463

View attachment 43464

In my opinion the only major issues are that I don't load my feet correctly in 2 (right foot too forward and to the left, so I roll onto the outer foot instead of pushing off it) and my arm is slightly leading in 3. In 4 my left leg could also have lunged a bit forward, stepping with the foot, for a shot like that.

Is the timing *completely* wrong and it's a 100% arm swing, or is it more subtle in your opinion?

EDIT: Oh, and my posture could probably not change so much. I don't see a reason to lean a bit backwards during the swing. Should probably be more neutral, or even forward.

Well, hard to see from these pictures, but I think you strokes were well too huge and used too much power (arm/hand). I think you might benefit from a 1/3 compact strike and maybe 40% power. I know ML's strikes look amazing, but it takes years of practice and modification to get there.

Get the timing right. Get your body/leg for power and support. Then, think about spin, movement, and lastly power on your shot.

 

[Archosaurus]

Well, hard to see from these pictures, but I think you strokes were well too huge and used too much power (arm/hand). I think you might benefit from a 1/3 compact strike and maybe 40% power. I know ML's strikes look amazing, but it takes years of practice and modification to get there.

Get the timing right. Get your body/leg for power and support. Then, think about spin, movement, and lastly power on your shot.

I don't really understand how I can make it more compact apart from if I stop it short on the followthrough or don't let my arm be loose at all. Do you suggest I intentionally do that but at a lower power so I'm not stiff?

It's not Ma Long's swing, it's my swing. I can't imitate him even if I try. It also doesn't make sense because he's taller and has longer arms. I'm also not grown in a lab like he is LOL.

Of course I'll compare it sometimes just for a sanity check. Funnily it's not the first time I get that, though, a few times I've been called "like Ma Long" when I was serving or doing forehands lol. Maybe as a mockery, I don't know.

I'm just chasing the smoothest and most explosive feeling with the least tension in my upper body, although looking at those still frames, there's a few counterproductive elements which rob probably half the power away from the shot. That upwards movement and backwards leaning looks really bad. Can probably get exact same shot quality with half the power if I remove those elements.

EDIT: Also I dunno if it gives you a clue but I get 0 arm pain at all. No shoulder or elbow or anything. It literally doesn't feel like I'm using my arm even a little bit in the swings that feel good.

I get a sore shoulder on backhands, so there's probably way too much muscling going on.

 

[kindof99]

I don't really understand how I can make it more compact apart from if I stop it short on the followthrough or don't let my arm be loose at all. Do you suggest I intentionally do that but at a lower power so I'm not stiff?

It's not Ma Long's swing, it's my swing. I can't imitate him even if I try. It also doesn't make sense because he's taller and has longer arms. I'm also not grown in a lab like he is LOL.

Of course I'll compare it sometimes just for a sanity check. Funnily it's not the first time I get that, though, a few times I've been called "like Ma Long" when I was serving or doing forehands lol. Maybe as a mockery, I don't know.

I'm just chasing the smoothest and most explosive feeling with the least tension in my upper body, although looking at those still frames, there's a few counterproductive elements which rob probably half the power away from the shot. That upwards movement and backwards leaning looks really bad. Can probably get exact same shot quality with half the power if I remove those elements.

EDIT: Also I dunno if it gives you a clue but I get 0 arm pain at all. No shoulder or elbow or anything. It literally doesn't feel like I'm using my arm even a little bit in the swings that feel good.

I get a sore shoulder on backhands, so there's probably way too much muscling going on.

Look at picture 1. Your paddle almost hit the floor in the backswing, and you contacted the ball about the net height. How much distance do you need to swing to contact the ball? This kind of swing was only for people feeding slow (maybe backspin) ball to you for a power loop, but for amateurs in a rally, it usually meant waste of energy, hard for correct timing, and bad consistency.

 

[Archosaurus]

Look at picture 1. Your paddle almost hit the floor in the backswing, and you contacted the ball about the net height. How much distance do you need to swing to contact the ball? This kind of swing was only for people feeding slow (maybe backspin) ball to you for a power loop, but for amateurs in a rally, it usually meant waste of energy, hard for correct timing, and bad consistency.

I feel like you're mixing up a lot of things here so I'd appreciate if we simplified it even more.

Is the swing technically wrong?
is the swing choice suboptimal for shot quality?
Is the swing choice suboptimal for success rate?
Is the swing choice suboptimal for energy use?

From what I understand from your posts, it's technically wrong due to bad timing, suboptimal for shot quality because it's performed against the wrong kind of ball, suboptimal for success rate because it's too large to time easily, and suboptimal for energy use because...I don't know, my arm feels fine in those, but I guess I squat down low when the ball is high.

Is there anything *good* about it, or should I be adopting a 100% completely opposite approach?

 

[kindof99]

I feel like you're mixing up a lot of things here so I'd appreciate if we simplified it even more.

Is the swing technically wrong?
is the swing choice suboptimal for shot quality?
Is the swing choice suboptimal for success rate?
Is the swing choice suboptimal for energy use?

From what I understand from your posts, it's technically wrong due to bad timing, suboptimal for shot quality because it's performed against the wrong kind of ball, suboptimal for success rate because it's too large to time easily, and suboptimal for energy use because...I don't know, my arm feels fine in those, but I guess I squat down low when the ball is high.

Is there anything *good* about it, or should I be adopting a 100% completely opposite approach?

Backswing is the soul of table tennis strikes. But don't backswing just for backswing. Backswing is for you to hit the ball with your body while you can still adjust and get power.

In my opinion, you did not need to backswing that low and that much for now. Focus on backswing with your leg/hip compactly, so you can foreswing to contact the ball with good timing without moving your arm/hand at all.

 

[Archosaurus]

Backswing is the soul of table tennis strikes. But don't backswing just for backswing. Backswing is for you to hit the ball with your body while you can still adjust and get power.

In my opinion, you did not need to backswing that low and that much for now. Focus on backswing with your leg/hip compactly, so you can foreswing to contact the ball with good timing without moving your arm/hand at all.

I thought my backswing is already pretty compact. The only way I can make it more compact is by bending my elbow and dropping my shoulder less. IS that what you suggest?

When you say "without moving your arm/hand at all" how literal are we being here? The only stroke I can do that with and even *hit* the ball is a forehand drive against a pretty low ball, like in warm up. Is that what you suggest?

 

[Richie]

I think that there are several reasons that most amateurs can not improve.
1. knowledge, most amateurs do not know why and how to properly execute a shot; If you do not have a good coach, you would have to watch a lot of videos and try out for yourself, which most amateurs can't do.

2, change of habits, most amateurs just can not and do not want to change especially senior players with long time of playing habits.

3, persistence, any strikes require a lot of practice for muscle memory, but people will fall in to the old habit very quickly as it is more comfortable.

I think it's more to do with the playing environment many players fall into which limits their perspective and exposure. If you don't see anything other than that it's very difficult to improve.

 

[OvrChkn]

Last night we took our third 1-4 defeat. The majority went to decider, the rest went to 8-9 points at least. Feels like we're up to the level but just not managing to close it yet.
My BH was lacking confidence, and my FH was too wild for too many points. When I did manage to relax the BH motion, or play a fluid, 40% FH loop, it was 80% my point.
But as I said to my teammate, I have to keep in mind that I come from playing too large and wild on *everything* FH, and the fact that I am capable of restraint and sensible, technical play, even if I don't pull it off consistently yet, is definitely sign of progress.

I do keep getting happier and happier with the Glayzer/Glayzer combo. The combination of the controlled and super grippy topsheet, and the action that the sponge can unleash is just excellent. In a way, it reminds me of the "harder feeling" that I always liked on my BH. Control levels feel very close to classic rubbers, pushing is so easy to get right, but there's also a fair amount of spin and power.


I was thinking, a return board might be awesome in this case. Cheap, effective, direct feedback and it will block as good as you set it up to.

How's the dwell/balance with the Glayzers on the Innerforce? Was thinking about testing out more limba top-layer rackets, like Harimoto/Innerforce ALC and Freitas ALC, and just want to slap on something cheaper than Dignics to try out. Looking mainly for a blade that's not so head heavy -> balanced towards the head compared to the H2. I've noticed I get a strange recoil/follow-through on my hands from the H2 from strokes, but not from the FZD. Could just be how I grip.

I tried using a return board once and I can't do the initial feed into the board lol. Felt like doing speedbag with boxing.

Worked with a massage therapist the other day and they were amazed at how banged up my body was from table tennis. I think I should commit to doing one therapy session quarterly cause I feel like a new person now.

 

[Archosaurus]

I think it's more to do with the playing environment many players fall into which limits their perspective and exposure. If you don't see anything other than that it's very difficult to improve.

At least in the clubs I've been in here, all the good players and coaches keep to themselves. They don't even talk to the adult amateurs. All the focus is on pros and juniors. There's no hired coaches to hold group training sessions or anything at all. So it's mostly adult amateurs trying to teach each other. I kinda feel like the sport can't develop if there's that kind of divide between the cultures with how small the talent pool is.

 

[Tyce]

How's the dwell/balance with the Glayzers on the Innerforce? Was thinking about testing out more limba top-layer rackets, like Harimoto/Innerforce ALC and Freitas ALC, and just want to slap on something cheaper than Dignics to try out. Looking mainly for a blade that's not so head heavy -> balanced towards the head compared to the H2. I've noticed I get a strange recoil/follow-through on my hands from the H2 from strokes, but not from the FZD. Could just be how I grip.

I tried using a return board once and I can't do the initial feed into the board lol. Felt like doing speedbag with boxing.

Worked with a massage therapist the other day and they were amazed at how banged up my body was from table tennis. I think I should commit to doing one therapy session quarterly cause I feel like a new person now.

Dwell is spot on for me, maybe too much if you're used to D05. It's just a little bit easier to access the sponge than Fastarc G1 but the experience is not that far off. Not as explosive on low effort as Tenergy or Rozena either, but there's a lot more liveliness than Fastarc C1 when you put something in.

It just feels like a rubber focused on stability and spin, as opposed to Rozena which is focused on stability and speed (imo).

The weight is good. Definitely lighter than the Fastarcs which were 2.0 (Glayzer is 2.1). Heavier than Rozena which is light as a feather. Similar to Tenergy.

 

[OvrChkn]

Dwell is spot on for me, maybe too much if you're used to D05. It's just a little bit easier to access the sponge than Fastarc G1 but the experience is not that far off. Not as explosive on low effort as Tenergy or Rozena either, but there's a lot more liveliness than Fastarc C1 when you put something in.

It just feels like a rubber focused on stability and spin, as opposed to Rozena which is focused on stability and speed (imo).

The weight is good. Definitely lighter than the Fastarcs which were 2.0 (Glayzer is 2.1). Heavier than Rozena which is light as a feather. Similar to Tenergy.

That sounds perfect to me. A big concern I had when changing to koto outer carbon was that my serves became worse and I couldn't get use to it. Having something a little stiffer and keeping it to an inner carbon would be ideal for me at this point.

 

[Richie]

At least in the clubs I've been in here, all the good players and coaches keep to themselves. They don't even talk to the adult amateurs. All the focus is on pros and juniors. There's no hired coaches to hold group training sessions or anything at all. So it's mostly adult amateurs trying to teach each other. I kinda feel like the sport can't develop if there's that kind of divide between the cultures with how small the talent pool is.

Yeah, I know what it's like. And it was very frustrating back when I first started having a lot of drive to improve. But luckily I did gradually play better and better players. I think I was quite fortunate with that. Starting in an environment which didn't knock my confidence and then moving to different places with gradually better players.

 

[dingyibvs]

Could you look at these pictures and tell me in each of them how the timings are wrong?
View attachment 43461

View attachment 43462
View attachment 43463

View attachment 43464

In my opinion the only major issues are that I don't load my feet correctly in 2 (right foot too forward and to the left, so I roll onto the outer foot instead of pushing off it) and my arm is slightly leading in 3. In 4 my left leg could also have lunged a bit forward, stepping with the foot, for a shot like that.

Is the timing *completely* wrong and it's a 100% arm swing, or is it more subtle in your opinion?

EDIT: Oh, and my posture could probably not change so much. I don't see a reason to lean a bit backwards during the swing. Should probably be more neutral, or even forward.

EDIT 2: Hell, some energy's going upwards when it probably ought not to.

Can't find the timing mistakes though apart from that subtle lead.

I think timing is fine there. That's a really high and deep ball though, and I think the problem I saw in earlier videos is that you're kinda doing the same thing when the ball is shorter and lower. With those balls you reach a little bit and mistime your acceleration so you're not really accelerating through the ball.

 

[jonol]

Could you look at these pictures and tell me in each of them how the timings are wrong?
View attachment 43461

View attachment 43462
View attachment 43463

View attachment 43464

In my opinion the only major issues are that I don't load my feet correctly in 2 (right foot too forward and to the left, so I roll onto the outer foot instead of pushing off it) and my arm is slightly leading in 3. In 4 my left leg could also have lunged a bit forward, stepping with the foot, for a shot like that.

Is the timing *completely* wrong and it's a 100% arm swing, or is it more subtle in your opinion?

EDIT: Oh, and my posture could probably not change so much. I don't see a reason to lean a bit backwards during the swing. Should probably be more neutral, or even forward.

EDIT 2: Hell, some energy's going upwards when it probably ought not to.

Can't find the timing mistakes though apart from that subtle lead.

1. No weight transfer
2. Shot taken late
3. Starting point way too low for the incoming ball

Intensity of your play is generally just very casual and unserious as well.

 

[Haito]

Could you look at these pictures and tell me in each of them how the timings are wrong?
View attachment 43461

View attachment 43462
View attachment 43463

View attachment 43464

In my opinion the only major issues are that I don't load my feet correctly in 2 (right foot too forward and to the left, so I roll onto the outer foot instead of pushing off it) and my arm is slightly leading in 3. In 4 my left leg could also have lunged a bit forward, stepping with the foot, for a shot like that.

Is the timing *completely* wrong and it's a 100% arm swing, or is it more subtle in your opinion?

EDIT: Oh, and my posture could probably not change so much. I don't see a reason to lean a bit backwards during the swing. Should probably be more neutral, or even forward.

EDIT 2: Hell, some energy's going upwards when it probably ought not to.

Can't find the timing mistakes though apart from that subtle lead.

Take the ball in front of you, not on the side.

 

[dingyibvs]

Take the ball in front of you, not on the side.

His timing is fine, it's essentially the same as FZD's, allowing for differences in position and direction. See @Archosaurus's 3rd picture for comparison.