Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Archosaurus]

One of the principles I try to work with when I teach adult learners (because their experience makes them have stories that inhibit the learning process - kids haven't had the time to develop those stories) is that everything should feel unsafe when you first do it, but the key is to focus on the motion and learn how to adjust the contact point over time. Don't try to put the ball on the table, swing at the ball see what it does and focus on changing the swing trajectory and contact point before you significantly reduce the power. In fact, I try to encourage adults to smash with a full stroke in the beginning. Throwing mechanics are consistent across offensive strokes for the most part, it is just the nature of the contact and the intensity of the throw that changes (because recovery is important in table tennis, otherwise you could toss the ball into oblivion with the right mechanics but the spin and /or speed that puts the ball on the table can be used against you to bring it back). But when you learn how to go through a ball and make it land on the table, it changes the way you see table tennis. You start looking for more opportunities to go through the ball if you can physically sustain it. When I was less arthritic, my favorite play was serve no spin, and whatever return I get, if it comes long or high enough, windmill the ball.

I really agree with this, but everyone around me bar one old guy is telling me to do the opposite. One guy at the club is telling me to "keep going for the big shots" but everyone else, online and in person, is saying it's all bad and I should stick to drives at low power to build fundamentals.

I know I don't have the playing level or experience to back it up, but I just don't agree with that. What you're saying makes a lot more sense to me as long as you're willing to lose a lot and hit the ball out for a while.

That's also pretty close to how I teach beginners to performance/race drive; right after I get them comfortable making smooth inputs at low speed and not unsettling the car from their own actions, I will have them go into corners a bit too fast or with a bit too much brake to learn to "dance" with the car.

A lot of people never get past that conservative stage where they're not quite getting all of the oomph out because it's scary and feels really uncomfortable to drive around the actual performance limit, and that stage can last years and years unless you make a dramatic change to fix it. I don't know how similar TT is to that, but it seems similar in some ways.

Do I have it wrong or are we on the same page?

 

[NextLevel]

Maybe our idea of serious is different. The highest ambition I have is to not get crushed in Division 7 next year and I'll see from there. In all likelihood I will lose 90% of my games but it's just how it is.

Everyone "serious" already has established partners and our level is too different to train. The only reason they accommodate me at all is because they can't return my serves, so they can get some practice against serves which are closer to the high division ones. So we will do an hour or two sometimes if the time is right. I will occasionally take sets off these guys but I think they overestimate me a bit sometimes, so it's unclear if they will keep training with me at all once they can figure out how to return my serve lol...

That could be true about the sweat, I think I've felt them dragging a little really late into a tough session. I need to get some shorts anyway some time so I'll start training in them at some point.

How many hours a week do you spend playing or practicing table tennis? IF it is more than 3 hours and especially if it is closer to 10, it begins to be a bit defensive to quibble over definitions of serious.

The truth is that anyone with a hour to four hours of recorded training from a serious coach can come close to your level if they have the right mindset. That said, your level is above the general population and those of us who have been in good training environments know you are clearly in the bottom half of a training environment, but underestimate how far ahead you are of the general population. Many players at your level have happily played and practiced table tennis for decades.

People here actually are both surprised that you put so much time into the sport, seem to have the capability to do more and think you haven't achieved it. All questionable assumptions for sure, but all to your credit. The part they are unpleasantly surprised by is that your write about TT much better than you play it, but that is a story for another time. And by the way, while not all engineers are *great* players or drivers, many of them are good players or drivers. But since I have already said you are better than the play off the street, that might be enough. It just isn't what many players are looking for when they evaluate things, the physics is far less valuable than the experience of a good player.

 

[jonol]

 

[NextLevel]

I really agree with this, but everyone around me bar one old guy is telling me to do the opposite. One guy at the club is telling me to "keep going for the big shots" but everyone else, online and in person, is saying it's all bad and I should stick to drives at low power to build fundamentals.

I know I don't have the playing level or experience to back it up, but I just don't agree with that. What you're saying makes a lot more sense to me as long as you're willing to lose a lot and hit the ball out for a while.

That's also pretty close to how I teach beginners to performance/race drive; right after I get them comfortable making smooth inputs at low speed and not unsettling the car from their own actions, I will have them go into corners a bit too fast or with a bit too much brake to learn to "dance" with the car.

A lot of people never get past that conservative stage where they're not quite getting all of the oomph out because it's scary and feels really uncomfortable to drive around the actual performance limit, and that stage can last years and years unless you make a dramatic change to fix it. I don't know how similar TT is to that, but it seems similar in some ways.

Do I have it wrong or are we on the same page?

You have it wrong, the words don't make you right. The results speak for themselves. If you had it right you would play better or develop strong players. That's ultimately the bottom line. You need to actually have some success with the concept to make it work in table tennis. Because their position also has success because table tennis is not learned by words, the story that enables the learning is not the same for everyone.

Swinging hard is important but there is an approach to it. Ultimately, one needs to be in the right environment to get the right kind of feedback. We are ultimately reinforcement learners, even if we sometimes like to think we are intellectual learners. Hence people go on and on about how Chat GPT hallucinates (God forbid a human being hallucinate) or just guesses words (ah, human beings aren't guessing and adapting words or actions to get better at table tennis or even language) as if that closes the conversation about whether Chat GPT is intelligent. You need to marry the effort with the right environment. When @ThePongCommenter is telling you that your practice partner can't block well enough for you to develop a good stroke, it isn't trivial information. And it isn't the kind of thing an engineer can know purely by being an engineer. And it isn't absolute information either, it has a context. But usually, all these things tend to be underestimated by the intellectuals who want to explain as much as possible with words.

If you are happy with your playing level, that is fine. But most people are just surprised by the disconnect they experience between your confidence in TT and your actual achievements. I actually have spent a lot of time trying to campaign against such intellectual TT because it hurt me a bit when I tried to find resources online to learn. People just sharing mental models without having the success that would justify these mental models. At least, when I shared my video, people could see whether I was worth taking seriously or not. And that is often very level relative.

 

[Archosaurus]

How many hours a week do you spend playing or practicing table tennis? IF it is more than 3 hours and especially if it is closer to 10, it begins to be a bit defensive to quibble over definitions of serious.

The truth is that anyone with a hour to four hours of recorded training from a serious coach can come close to your level if they have the right mindset. That said, your level is above the general population and those of us who have been in good training environments know you are clearly in the bottom half of a training environment, but underestimate how far ahead you are of the general population. Many players at your level have happily played and practiced table tennis for decades.

People here actually are both surprised that you put so much time into the sport, seem to have the capability to do more and think you haven't achieved it. All questionable assumptions for sure, but all to your credit. The part they are surprised by is that your write about TT much better than you play it, but that is a story for another time. And by the way, while not all engineers are *great* players or drivers, many of them are good players or drivers. But since I have already said you are better than the play off the street, that might be enough. It just isn't what many players are looking for when they evaluate things, the physics is far less valuable than the experience of a good player.

Usually I'll play 4-5 hours in the middle of the week, although actual hitting is probably -1 hour. Sometimes I'll play a 2.5 hour session in the end of the workweek, actual hitting maybe 2 hours. Sometimes I'll attend a 4 hour on the weekend although not always staying the whole time, bit more casual session. Probably -1 to -2 for that one too.

There's also another 2.5 hour session over the weekend that I always attend, and sometimes people will stay to hit for a bit longer, so maybe +1 hour. Has gone to +2 sometimes.

This week there were some extra sessions, so I played Mon-Tue-Wed and rest of week is normal, so this week is probably closer to 13 or 14. I don't foresee that repeating a lot, though. For one I can't physically handle it atm lol...

So I guess on average you could say I'm doing about 7-11 hours right now give or take some, depends on the week.

Maybe that's serious? I played 20-25h/wk in highschool but it was really informal and casual as you know.


I read your other reply and I have no comment, I think you're right and I understand what you mean. Proof of the pudding is in the eating or whatever they say lol...

EDIT: Maybe I come off like that, but I don't really have confidence in my play. I have confidence in my serving but that's vetted and tested. Strokes, footwork, tactics in the rally etc. are their own thing, and my impression of my level has trended down with time.

Rather it's people in real life who keep telling me to not be so harsh on myself and who believe in my abilities more than I do. I'm still not sure I can even survive in Division 7, but that's what the consensus seems to be.

 

[NextLevel]

Usually I'll play 4-5 hours in the middle of the week, although actual hitting is probably -1 hour. Sometimes I'll play a 2.5 hour session in the end of the workweek, actual hitting maybe 2 hours. Sometimes I'll attend a 4 hour on the weekend although not always staying the whole time, bit more casual session. Probably -1 to -2 for that one too.

There's also another 2.5 hour session over the weekend that I always attend, and sometimes people will stay to hit for a bit longer, so maybe +1 hour. Has gone to +2 sometimes.

This week there were some extra sessions, so I played Mon-Tue-Wed and rest of week is normal, so this week is probably closer to 13 or 14. I don't foresee that repeating a lot, though. For one I can't physically handle it atm lol...

So I guess on average you could say I'm doing about 7-11 hours right now give or take some, depends on the week.

Maybe that's serious? I played 20-25h/wk in highschool but it was really informal and casual as you know.


I read your other reply and I have no comment, I think you're right and I understand what you mean. Proof of the pudding is in the eating or whatever they say lol...

You are spending enough time that most people would expect that you would take a serious crack at being the best you can be. And that if you are giving people advice on how to play better, you are giving it from a position of success and experience. So when they see the advice and the playing level and experience a disconnect, they are confused. I was a significantly stronger player than you in a different training environment and just about all my posts were questions to the better players on mytt. I rarely responded to a post with a solution and it was mostly to share something that worked for me when I felt or knew I was stronger than the level of the person asking the question. Most of my more explicit advice started when

1) I was closer to USATT 2000
2) I had worked with an international level coach who had given me frameworks for understanding table tennis that I felt I could use meaningfully to help people improve
3) I had lots of video on youtube

In fact, very often, good players who I would make the mistake of recommending something to would dismiss me pretty quickly because they knew my playing level. Completely reasonable. My level is not special but it is advanced in any TT playing country, yes, including China and Japan, not because I am a great player in those countries, but because the amount of time you need to spend playing to get to the level I am at and the quality of players you need to hit with is significant in any country and that experience connects players who are at it. No one is going to step off the street and just start playing at the level I am at. There are still quite a few basement level players who can challenge you.

Think about what responsibility that places upon you when people are looking to you as an expert on how they can succeed at this sport. Because that is ultimately what happens when people read things online.

 

[Tyce]

Looks like you're putting the weight on the left leg and letting the right one bend during the stroke. This makes your right leg act like a dampener rather than transmitting energy into the shot.
I can't tell 100% but it looks like your core isn't tightened up either because that would explain the "left leg fixed, right leg bending" situation.
This results in a couple of symptoms which you may or may not recognise:

1. you have to put more armswing into a shot to get the same pace on the ball that a higher level player seems to do effortlessly.
Not only does it potentially hurt your arm (think tennis/golfer's elbow, shoulder pains), it also puts more strain on the knees and lower back because they have to compensate for the force of the swing. Larger muscle groups (like your core) are more effective and efficient at stabilizing and powering than smaller ones. When in doubt, always choose the larger muscle option to do something.

2. It's hard to put the ball to the same place consistently. This is simply because it's harder to coordinate a shot when you execute it actively using shoulder and elbow joints than when you're rotating/pivoting around a fixed point with your core to build the bulk of the shot's power, and mainly use the arm for corrections.

3. Tightness, in the arms but also in the legs. Your limbs are compensating for the lack of stability here - and they're not only worse at it, it also puts strain on an arm that's trying to swing freely - so it doesn't. Keeping your arm loose (and your core tight) gives you much more fine motor control. (Just think about trying to throw a dart with, or without having a brick taped to your arm... Which one is easier to control?)

4. It's hard to produce quality, consistently. I see those first team players warm up and they just make delicious snapping and cracking sounds on even the lighter contacts. That's not about power, if it was, they would be hitting rockets of shots in their warmup. It's about well-timed contact in a free-flowing, short burst of acceleration. Like you could put a short burst on the brake/gas pedal to initiate a drift. My point is, they are consistently using their full bat and that gives them control. Being able to dig into the rubber on most shots (so from 20% power for example) opens up the opportunity to load the ball with spin, without making more than a small adjustment on the angle of the stroke and blade.
Now why they can do that consistently is maybe 20% timing, but 80% power efficiency. Bracing the body against the ball's trajectory, setting the most effective pivot point for your FH (the leg closest to your FH).


As for shin issues, get the weight off your heels. Playing on your heels can subconsciously make you try to counterbalance by raising your toes, and that puts a ton of strain on the shins. I don't know if you run, but heelstriking when running, and particularly striking the ground too far out in front of your body, is a perfect recipe for shin splints.
Rather than stabilizing on the heels for a FH loop shot, get a bit more angle in the knees and use your hip extenders and glutes to push down into the floor (hey there's the larger muscle groups again!). Your lower leg muscles should mainly be doing small directional corrections, not long/large strain stability work.
If you find it hard to adjust, get those shorts and free up your leg movement. It's like playing with softer rubbers, everything is just a little bit easier.

 

[Tyce]

I really agree with this, but everyone around me bar one old guy is telling me to do the opposite. One guy at the club is telling me to "keep going for the big shots" but everyone else, online and in person, is saying it's all bad and I should stick to drives at low power to build fundamentals.

They're both wrong - you need both. Build up the fundamentals so it gets easier to generate powerful balls, and play those big shots so you grow more confidence in using them. You absolutely need fundamentals to get better at making those shots, but you also absolutely need to practice those shots to get better at making them.

 

[Archosaurus]

You are spending enough time that most people would expect that you would take a serious crack at being the best you can be. And that if you are giving people advice on how to play better, you are giving it from a position of success and experience. So when they see the advice and the playing level and experience a disconnect, they are confused. I was a significantly stronger player than you in a different training environment and just about all my posts were questions to the better players on mytt. I rarely responded to a post with a solution and it was mostly to share something that worked for me when I felt or knew I was stronger than the level of the person asking the question. Most of my more explicit advice started when

1) I was closer to USATT 2000
2) I had worked with an international level coach who had given me frameworks for understanding table tennis that I felt I could use meaningfully to help people improve
3) I had lots of video on youtube

In fact, very often, good players who I would make the mistake of recommending something to would dismiss me pretty quickly because they knew my playing level. Completely reasonable. My level is not special but it is advanced in any TT playing country, yes, including China and Japan, not because I am a great player in those countries, but because the amount of time you need to spend playing to get to the level I am at and the quality of players you need to hit with is significant in any country and that experience connects players who are at it. No one is going to step off the street and just start playing at the level I am at. There are still quite a few basement level players who can challenge you.

Think about what responsibility that places upon you when people are looking to you as an expert on how they can succeed at this sport. Because that is ultimately what happens when people read things online.

You're probably right. I've actually stopped giving advice in person *entirely*. I should probably stop it online as well lol. I never do it maliciously but even if I'm right (arguable) I don't have the credentials for it, and I also don't know what I don't know. I've been in the position of the expert watching some idiot give bad advice so I should probably know better.

A few months ago when I started again I gave a little advice to people who are at an even lower level than I am, but I don't feel comfortable doing that any more. At most if someone asks me about serving something I can serve alright I will indulge them, although I have doubts about that too. So I mostly just keep my mouth shut and nod now after giving some generic advice like "brush more under the ball". The last time I tried to have a detailed discussion about technicalities, someone who doesn't even *have* a pendulum serve brushed me off and said I'm wrong, so it probably rubs people the wrong way anyway.

I think that's probably fine, but should I do that with my dedicated partner? I feel like I have to probably advise him a little more to be able to help myself.

@Tyce

Do I also do those technical mistakes in the shots I perform in the set videos, or is that just for this video?

 

[NextLevel]

Coaching here seems like a complete waste of time unless you can find someone who has some achievements and pedagogical understanding and is willing to work with you long-term. Most "coaches" are amateurs who play in the club divisions and all I've seen them do is drills without really any kind of guidance or advice. I've talked with a few pro coaches and the guidance isn't terrible, but it's not anything I couldn't just get here either. NextLevel is basically saying the same things they are.

In life and table tennis, often what is *said* is not where the information is, it is in absorbing the behaviors and practices of the people around you. If you join a company or even train to be an engineer or a research scientist, they are always things they show you and things you learn hanging around the experts etc. that cannot be found in the company manuals etc.

And this is true at every level. All the talented juniors in Europe pretty much always have to relocate with their families to the right places if they don't already live at them or close to them. William Henzell was already a promising junior in Australia but relocated to Europe as a teenager. And then despite being the greatest player in Australian TT history pretty much had to keep going to Europe and living and keep looking for better leagues (he later felt that he would have been better off in Germany from the start since he felt they had the best coaches but who knows) in order to get better. If reading stuff online worked, he would never have had to travel.

I worked with TTEdge and got a lot of online, but the biggest jump in my serves came when Brett actually came to the US and I could get a better feel for what he was doing in person. I also got to train against his loop and block for a bit and had I trained with him for a month or two as opposed to a week, I would have become a different player for sure. My highest rating came shortly after that period. Brett told me the same thing, he said that when he hit with Blaszczyk of Poland who was top 15, that he felt that the game slowed down for him as dealing with that speed and quality heightened his senses. Playing with better players makes you see the ball come back over and over again, makes you re-evaluate what you think it takes to win a point. And then that translates to wins over players who have no clue what that experience is like.

In any case, my final post on the matter. As you may have noticed, I have largely left you to your own devices so that you wouldn't feel that I was harassing you off the forum. But I just decided to revisit it once more since you are now seeing that what I said was hardly personal.

 

[Archosaurus]

In any case, my final post on the matter. As you may have noticed, I have largely left you to your own devices so that you wouldn't feel that I was harassing you off the forum. But I just decided to revisit it once more since you are now seeing that what I said was hardly personal.

Thanks for the posts. I have no qualms with them. Make more if you wish. The Dictator is merciful once in a while.

The things I do well (in other things, not in TT) are completely the result of having excellent, genuinely world-class super-genius mentors and a good environment and a load of luck to be able to fit the pieces together. Without a few specific people I would be completely devoid of ability or knowledge, and that's not an exaggeration. I'm extremely unintelligent and have no natural abilities for anything so I'm sure without those factors I'd still be at "year 1" level.

I see plenty of people who get stuck there for years and years because of some even more severe personality disorder (What a bar to clear) or just really bad circumstances and weird biases built over time. Those people then go on to masquerade as experts and even try to swindle people from their money by offering them poor services and products.

So I'm not going to pretend I understand what you mean in relation to sports training, but I can at least grasp at the essence a little bit.

Understanding that, though, I doubt I'll ever become even a median player in TT. The forum people probably have a lot higher assumptions about my maximal abilities than what is likely. At the same time, that could just be one of my own biases, so I don't know for sure. It just does seem like no matter what I try in terms of routines or exercises or equipment or whatever, nothing really changes, apart from that I somehow have the ability to slowly develop serves.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

The road to recovery continues.
We had an important team match yesterday. Our 2 ace players couldn’t come and we had to let play a reserve player with no real chance just not to forfeit .

So it was time for me to go on the main stage and I managed to play very good, even better than last WE RR tournament.

Very happy with my performance.
Only 2w2l but the level of opponents was very good for me and it was all high pressure matches.

As I have been noticing the very basic long very fast (BH) topspin that one does like when doing drills was very effective against many players especially those with short or long pips. Especially we were playing on fast slippery tables.

They know what I’ll do. I know that they know. They know that I know that they know but I’ll still do it and it works ! And it’s very easy to do ! Scored me many points including in money time and it’s giving me so much confidence and shattering theirs (« how can I have problems on this ??? »)

Most often it’s an ace or weak receive . I’m ready and committed to a strong attack . But also don’t hesitate to push back occasionally and usually theres so much spin from the serve that push is not easy to deal with for the opponent. I can serve from both corners and can also go straight from time to time but it’s more risky

 

[Tyce]

You're probably right. I've actually stopped giving advice in person *entirely*. I should probably stop it online as well lol. I never do it maliciously but even if I'm right (arguable) I don't have the credentials for it, and I also don't know what I don't know. I've been in the position of the expert watching some idiot give bad advice so I should probably know better.

A few months ago when I started again I gave a little advice to people who are at an even lower level than I am, but I don't feel comfortable doing that any more. At most if someone asks me about serving something I can serve alright I will indulge them, although I have doubts about that too. So I mostly just keep my mouth shut and nod now after giving some generic advice like "brush more under the ball". The last time I tried to have a detailed discussion about technicalities, someone who doesn't even *have* a pendulum serve brushed me off and said I'm wrong, so it probably rubs people the wrong way anyway.

I think that's probably fine, but should I do that with my dedicated partner? I feel like I have to probably advise him a little more to be able to help myself.

@Tyce

Do I also do those technical mistakes in the shots I perform in the set videos, or is that just for this video?

I would have to revisit them, but these isolated loops should be good examples because you're focusing on one stroke and the foot and body work is easy to see because it's consistent.

I think it's more useful to return the question: do you feel like you're always using your core and limbs in the same way as in that video? Or did you post a video that happened to be a bad example for the points I mentioned?
In the end, video can't convey what you are feeling and thinking in that moment.


Also coming round to the whole playing level part: I too give advice to people when my playing level doesn't always quite make me qualified to do so. It's a "do as I say, not as I do" situation for the most part, but I will also sometimes just give advice that is useless to someone. I do have a small background of coaching, but for beginner level players and I never got around to doing it long enough to warrant getting a certificate. Those who went to the meeting can testify that my playing level isn't all that much.

 

[Archosaurus]

I would have to revisit them, but these isolated loops should be good examples because you're focusing on one stroke and the foot and body work is easy to see because it's consistent.

I think it's more useful to return the question: do you feel like you're always using your core and limbs in the same way as in that video? Or did you post a video that happened to be a bad example for the points I mentioned?
In the end, video can't convey what you are feeling and thinking in that moment.


Also coming round to the whole playing level part: I too give advice to people when my playing level doesn't always quite make me qualified to do so. It's a "do as I say, not as I do" situation for the most part, but I will also sometimes just give advice that is useless to someone. I do have a small background of coaching, but for beginner level players and I never got around to doing it long enough to warrant getting a certificate. Those who went to the meeting can testify that my playing level isn't all that much.

I don't think so; I feel more of a "stretch" on the right side of my body and less of a "turning around a point" sensation. Arm also feels more relaxed and outstretched. Those ones in that video feel like I'm hitting them inside of a closet if it makes sense. The ones I miss in games are usually feeling more like that; cramped and tight. Especially when I chickenwing on the followthrough.

Shots that look ok to me on video feel like I hit them with a fully outstretched arm and it didn't feel like I used any effort at all.

 

[chandyrandy]

Last night we took our third 1-4 defeat. The majority went to decider, the rest went to 8-9 points at least. Feels like we're up to the level but just not managing to close it yet.
My BH was lacking confidence, and my FH was too wild for too many points. When I did manage to relax the BH motion, or play a fluid, 40% FH loop, it was 80% my point.
But as I said to my teammate, I have to keep in mind that I come from playing too large and wild on *everything* FH, and the fact that I am capable of restraint and sensible, technical play, even if I don't pull it off consistently yet, is definitely sign of progress.

I do keep getting happier and happier with the Glayzer/Glayzer combo. The combination of the controlled and super grippy topsheet, and the action that the sponge can unleash is just excellent. In a way, it reminds me of the "harder feeling" that I always liked on my BH. Control levels feel very close to classic rubbers, pushing is so easy to get right, but there's also a fair amount of spin and power.


I was thinking, a return board might be awesome in this case. Cheap, effective, direct feedback and it will block as good as you set it up to.

Glayzer Glayzer is so damn goated

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Yeah, I agree. That's what I told him to do. He got a lot better during the course of the video. The ones I showed were some of the better ones. We'll work on it more until it's solid and I'll try to find ways to make it easy to do the right stroke.

But I think it's also more complicated than that. Half of the time he can't get his bat behind the ball to even start the stroke and it just hits him in the chest, the corner of the bat or his finger. I'm sure you're not close to a beginner anymore so you might not remember how hard basic stuff like that is.

That's where a coach can help

 

[jk1980]

They're both wrong - you need both. Build up the fundamentals so it gets easier to generate powerful balls, and play those big shots so you grow more confidence in using them. You absolutely need fundamentals to get better at making those shots, but you also absolutely need to practice those shots to get better at making them.

That is a big point of discussion that i have with some of the players i do play training doubles with. He does try to big swing loop opponents serves and has a success chance of 1 in 10, while the 1 that actually lands on the table is an easy invitation to get me "outblocked" (he receives with forehand in doubles and then stays there because his swing through is that big so that the opponent just needs to block cross table back to him where i can't get in between the table and him still standing there). He then says "but i can do it. it is the right stroke", then i tell him "yes, it is the right stroke if you actually can do that stroke in a controlled environment in the first place". That is the thing. He tries things in doubles that he can not even repeat 3 times out of 10 if a coach would play the ball exactly to the same spot to him in an excercise. No point trying something that you can't do in an even easier setting.

Then i asked him when the last time was he did do any drill with a coach feeding him. He admitted it was month ago (even though the coach is available 3 times a week for free). I told him that he will never improve by just playing ping pong in the parc randomly spraying the ball over the table without any clue.

 

[jk1980]

I do have a small background of coaching, but for beginner level players and I never got around to doing it long enough to warrant getting a certificate.

unfortunately a certificate does not say much (at least in germany). I do know quite a few people that got their trainer license that can not do a proper loop on backspin. Either the need for coaches is so big that anybody gets a certificate as a participation trophy or the federation thinks that it would be sufficient to be able to try to explain something that one can not do themselves. we are talking about 900 TTR players having a coach certificate here.

 

[Archosaurus]

unfortunately a certificate does not say much (at least in germany). I do know quite a few people that got their trainer license that can not do a proper loop on backspin. Either the need for coaches is so big that anybody gets a certificate as a participation trophy or the federation thinks that it would be sufficient to be able to try to explain something that one can not do themselves. we are talking about 900 TTR players having a coach certificate here.

Maybe Australia isn't so far from Germany after all...

 

[kindof99]

All the coaches for my level do around here is block and feed multi. I already do that for free with some of the better players. Many players even at a decently higher level come to the same conclusion and just stop paying them after a few sessions. I won't completely knock it before I try it, but for now I'm not so fussed. If I can play in Division 7 next year and maybe 6 the year after that I'm ahead of my schedule already!

@Tyce gave some comments on your video. I agreed with most of them. From what I saw is that you probably would like to practice driving with your body first. You won't really have good power and consistency by the way of snapping your forearm to contact the ball. To really get better, spend a month on using your leg/body to drive. It will definitely help your game in the long run.