Help for my BH rubber needed!

[rycyt]

Good day guys!

I'm actually getting a new racquet, but I'm unsure of what rubber I should get for my backhand.

I use my backhand mainly for flicks (a la Fan Zhendong), not so much of defence. I believe I should be getting a tackier rubber in order to counter the heavy backspin on serves? Any good rubbers to recommend? I'm not sure if the Tenergy/Bluefire lives up to the hype (and their various models are confusing), or should I get a rubber of another brand.

Also, may I know whats the difference while comparing a rubber's spin, and tackiness. For example, is it possible that a tacky rubber doesn't offer much spin and vice versa?

Thanks!

 

[Der_Echte]

It wont spin unless you see the ball, are in position, and can use good form and timng to accerrrate the bat.

A half tacky rubber is OK there, but when you can make that timing, a non-tacky rubber works too.

XP 2008 Super Power is what everyone knows is gunna come outta my mouth of course. H3 Neo is another consideration for a half tacky rubber, but it suits some blades and not some others, like it is good on a heavy 896, but sounds like a brick on the W-6.

 

[sam222]

try joola rhyzm or X-PLODE SENSITIVE

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Tenergy 05FX is damn good for backhand but it is expensive. And what Der_Echte is recommending, XP 2008 Power Sponge, is pretty good and is only $7.00 a sheet. Hard to beat the price. 10 sheets for about the price of one Tenergy.

Xiom Vega Pro, Omega IV Europe and Sigma II Europe are pretty good for backhand as well.

 

[Der_Echte]

Once you buy and try enough blades and rubbers, OR try out a boatload of other players' setups, you will get a decent sense of what suits what on what blade.

Then again, by the time you figure all that out for yourself, the industry done came up with another couple hundred new products to confuse you and get you to buy 'em all, just like Pokemons.

 

[mahomedy13]

do you find the classics too slow?if not,i recomend the yasaka mark v.

 

[rycyt]

Thanks everyone for their suggestions! I do like the Tenergy range, but I'm not sure whats the difference between the various models. I'll take a look at the 05 FX and the Xioms, but I was just wondering, given my love of backhand flicks, should I be looking out for a tacky rubber, or a spinnier rubber?

 

[Der_Echte]

Thanks everyone for their suggestions! I do like the Tenergy range, but I'm not sure whats the difference between the various models. I'll take a look at the 05 FX and the Xioms, but I was just wondering, given my love of backhand flicks, should I be looking out for a tacky rubber, or a spinnier rubber?

Rycyt... Carl will tell you I like just as much, if not MORE, I LOVE to BH flick serves or short returns. He will tell you I BH flipped like a maniac using both H3 NEO (2-3 yr old sheet) AND the famous XP 2008 Super Power rubber. Some will tell it is good to have some tack to help you make spin on those slower strokes. That makes sense to a degree. I can also flip well with XP 2008 completely non tacky rubber on just about any blade I slap it on.

The problem with H3 NEO is that on certain vibrating flexy blades, the H3 NEO impact sound sounds and FEELS like a BRICK. High pitch, crack sound, just eerie. However, once the rubber breaks in, it is not so bad on those blades. On a solid, heavy blade that doesn't vibrate like an earthquake, H3 NEO is a good matchup.

I would not limit myself to just one potential candidate for a rubber. The truth is, there are MANY, many possible suitable rubbers for your style and preferences.

If your technique is effective enough, you can get the job done using about any inverted rubber and will later know the subtle differences and will prefer a certain rubber or two for your preferences once you hit with enough of them. Thing is, it is sometimes difficult to do that and we ask in forums. Still, nothing replaces trying it yourself directly. AND... it is fun.

 

[DDF2]

If you still need ideas :
I used to play Stiga Neos Tacky for a very long time on my backhand. The surface is tacky and the sponge hard, but it does not produce a great amount of speed. I always liked the solid feeling on the rubber, but exchanged it for a Armstrong Hikari S7. The Hikari S7 is also tacky with a medium to hard sponge and can produce a very good amount of speed. I'm using the 55° version which is the harder one for a more "direct" feeling on the strokes. It's also rather easy to control which is very nice for blocking or well placed topspins.

If you want to go for more speed on a very aggressive attack on your receive you could go for a faster rubber like Acuda S1. It doesn't have a tacky surface though so good technique is required for slower flicks and placement on fast flicks. Blocking and placement are a lot more difficult though due to the great speed.

edit:
Almost forgot to mention the Donic Baracuda. That one has a rather high arc and a tacky surface which makes it easy to land slow and spinny flicks, but harder to land fast ones. The high arc makes it easy to miss the table. For blocking it can do a lot if you have the technique for it. You can take so much speed out of the ball on a defensive block and punish weak topspins with a strong punch.

 

[rycyt]

Hmmm thanks Der_Echte, I might head down to the store to see if they do have any XP 2008 lying around, otherwise I'll probably get them online to try out. $7 a piece, sounds like a worthy investment.

I will try out various rubbers and make my decision then!

Thanks!

 

[Der_Echte]

Living in Singapore, you should be able to score some XP 2008 Super Power without paying too much expensive shipping. If no one distributes it in Europe, then shipping to Europe can be a little pricy.

 

[raazzz]

I play with Airoc M on backhand and that work very well for me, great spin.
In my own experience the most important is to find a good combination between rubber and blade. Which blade are you using?

 

[rycyt]

I play with Airoc M on backhand and that work very well for me, great spin.
In my own experience the most important is to find a good combination between rubber and blade. Which blade are you using?

I'll be putting it on the Stiga Infinity VPS. Heard several issues with the durability of this blade. Hopefully mine's alright.

 

[Der_Echte]

Expensive blades in my hand seem to get easily damaged ! Haha, and the inexpensive ones, I have only cracked ONE out of the 20 or so I used.

Go inexpensive and even if you crack one, you have the fun of getting a NEW one and modifying it. What else could be more fun than TT shopping and tinkering ???

 

[raazzz]

I'll be putting it on the Stiga Infinity VPS. Heard several issues with the durability of this blade. Hopefully mine's alright.

Ok, Great choice, I really like that blade!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I'll be putting it on the Stiga Infinity VPS. Heard several issues with the durability of this blade. Hopefully mine's alright.

Okay, I just want to give you some information about this blade. I felt two of them. Something did not feel quite right with either. The outer ply is pretty hard because of the VPS. The inner plies are soft. Sometimes that works and feels really good. This soft is sort of mushy. It did not really work. It took me a while to feel what was not quite right with it. My friend who had it, got one, and replaced it with a second. The first one, the top ply on one side delaminated like the glue between the two plies, for some reason, could not hold it together. So he sent that one back to Stiga and they sent him a new one. The new one, something similar happened to it. Weird.

Now, I love Stiga blades. But that one I did not really care for. I hope yours is a good one and you don't have any of those delimitation issues. And hopefully the feeling of the blade works for you and the way you play.

 

[rycyt]

Okay, I just want to give you some information about this blade. I felt two of them. Something did not feel quite right with either. The outer ply is pretty hard because of the VPS. The inner plies are soft. Sometimes that works and feels really good. This soft is sort of mushy. It did not really work. It took me a while to feel what was not quite right with it. My friend who had it, got one, and replaced it with a second. The first one, the top ply on one side delaminated like the glue between the two plies, for some reason, could not hold it together. So he sent that one back to Stiga and they sent him a new one. The new one, something similar happened to it. Weird.

Now, I love Stiga blades. But that one I did not really care for. I hope yours is a good one and you don't have any of those delimitation issues. And hopefully the feeling of the blade works for you and the way you play.

Hmmm, doesn't sound very promising. When you said "shipped back to Stiga", do you just ship it back to the factory address? Gotta get more information in case something does happen.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Hmmm, doesn't sound very promising. When you said "shipped back to Stiga", do you just ship it back to the factory address? Gotta get more information in case something does happen.

I will ask and find out specifically how he did it. I think he did it through the distributor but Stiga sent the second one directly to him. What I mean by "did it through the distributor", is, I believe he got in touch with the distributor and had the distributor set things up. I don't know if he shipped it back directly to Stiga or if the distributor did that.

 

[rycyt]

I will ask and find out specifically how he did it. I think he did it through the distributor but Stiga sent the second one directly to him. What I mean by "did it through the distributor", is, I believe he got in touch with the distributor and had the distributor set things up. I don't know if he shipped it back directly to Stiga or if the distributor did that.

Sorry to trouble you!

I'm gonna get my blade assembled tomorrow morning and gonna try it out in the afternoon. I'll post here on how it holds up.
Fingers crossed!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

...but I was just wondering, given my love of backhand flicks, should I be looking out for a tacky rubber, or a spinnier rubber?

I figured I would answer this directly. Der_Echte's first comment sort of meant that you need to be in position and have good technique to do an over the table loop no matter what rubber you use. The technique is more important than the rubber.

Now, the pros setups are not always what is best for us, but, sometimes it helps to look at what they do for information.

All the top Chinese players use a tacky Chinese style rubber on their FOREHAND. All those same players use a NON-TACKY: GRIPPY Euro/Japanese rubber on their backhand. Why????? The way tacky rubber works is this. You have a harder sponge and a tacky topsheet. If you are more precise and just use the topsheet as you brush the ball--creating what is called topsheet or tacky spin--that goes better with the big swing of a Chinese forehand and when you do that with the giant swing of a Chinese forehand you get a lot of power and spin. But you cannot be half assed with that. If you do not finish your stroke, if you do not follow through fully, if your stroke is a half stroke, if your contact is slightly off, your shot will not be a good one. It takes a lot of precision. So, those Chinese rubbers are generally better for forehand. Can you play them on the backhand side? Yes. Of course you can. It is just harder and you have to be perfect. There is less window for error.

With a Euro/Japanese Grippy Non-Tacky or slightly tacky rubber like Tenergy or Aurus, the sponge is soft, the ball sinks in, the topsheet grabs the ball, the topsheet is not sticky but it is grippy so, when the ball sinks in, it grabs the ball because there is more ball surface on the topsheet. After the sponge is compressed by the ball sinking in, it pushes back to its original shape and while it does that, it catapults the ball out and that is where it generates the spin. That way of creating spin is called MECHANICAL spin.

Again, as Der_Echte has already implied, if you have good technique you can use pretty much anything. But, the reason mechanical spin works better for an over the table backhand loop (also called a flip, banana, or a chiquita) is that you are generating the force from a tiny stroke so if you can utilize that catapult effect and how it creates and exponential amount of spin when done with the right touch, what you get is an explosive shot that is fast and has a ton of spin, from the acceleration at the moment of impact. You could never get that level of shot on an over the table loop with a tacky rubber even if you can do the shot well enough and it is a solid shot.

So any rubber will work. But there is a real reason why the whole Chinese National Team uses Tenergy on their backhands. And there is a reason why they use DHS rubbers on their forehands.

I hope that gives you more insight into what rubbers will work better for backhand.