Short Pips Forehand Weaknesses

[TenPercentWinRate]

Is there any way to mitigate the lack of effective defence in short pips forehand? Since it’s very easy to lose points when opponents play an aggressive and high quality shot to the forehand (at least from observations of my gameplay and pros as well).

The only exception was for Falck in R64 of Europe Smash last year, where first backed away from the table, and made mid distance flat hits and under the table loops against Franziska. Absolutely insane.

 

[MOJOJOJO-74]

Is there any way to mitigate the lack of effective defence in short pips forehand? Since it’s very easy to lose points when opponents play an aggressive and high quality shot to the forehand (at least from observations of my gameplay and pros as well).

The only exception was for Falck in R64 of Europe Smash last year, where first backed away from the table, and made mid distance flat hits and under the table loops against Franziska. Absolutely insane.

Either a) Don't let them back you away from the table, b) practice with your short pips against more aggressive players, or c) Twiddle to use inverted side so you take away that weakness of the short pips

 

[TenPercentWinRate]

Is the best solution just to be more aggressive?

 

[allencorn]

Watch some Jonny Huang videos. Not much weakness on forehand, though he didn’t defend much with it. Placement and quickness at the table are key.

 

[MOJOJOJO-74]

Is the best solution just to be more aggressive?

Well if you get pushed back, you can always chop, but being aggressive with short pips is fun but difficult.

 

[kase]

It's tough to chop with fast thick offensive short pips. Don't move away from the table. You need to be able to handle aggressive attacks to your (I assume) backhand inverted, close to the table. If you can't or don't want to, maybe switch to penhold short pips so you can use the pips on both sides like He Zhi Wen.

 

[J-fed]

It's tough to chop with fast thick offensive short pips. Don't move away from the table. You need to be able to handle aggressive attacks to your (I assume) backhand inverted, close to the table. If you can't or don't want to, maybe switch to penhold short pips so you can use the pips on both sides like He Zhi Wen.

I’m more a fan of small diameter short pips. Seems you can do more with them, including chopping. SP on the FH though is is as mentioned quite difficult. Not sure I see many people benefiting from them. So many misses. Sure it’s horrible to deal with those flat drives but I see so many long misses even from Falck that I’m not sure it’s worth it in the way that LP is on the BH.

 

[TenPercentWinRate]

It's tough to chop with fast thick offensive short pips. Don't move away from the table. You need to be able to handle aggressive attacks to your (I assume) backhand inverted, close to the table. If you can't or don't want to, maybe switch to penhold short pips so you can use the pips on both sides like He Zhi Wen.

To clarify, I do play penhold short pips.

The problem is that once forced into a defensive position, it’s impossible to cover the wide forehand side with TPB, which opponents will exploit (or maybe just so happen to direct it there).

Forehand blocking isn’t really easy either, especially without sufficient room. Falck does it, but at the price of backing off the table, which is basically giving up the point.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

play the high risk game and always attack first to win quickly the point - that needs to be your style

 

[blahness]

I never saw good FH sp attackers ever retreat from the table... either they land a vicious counterattack or block or they miss. You gotta be fast and have no fear lol

 

[TenPercentWinRate]

In an event that the opponent gets an upper hand in the point, is it ideal to execute an all or nothing, rather than blocking with SP?

 

[blahness]

In an event that the opponent gets an upper hand in the point, is it ideal to execute an all or nothing, rather than blocking with SP?

It should be by default a FH counter with a forward bend to get the eyes quite near the ball. You can see a lot of SP penholders like to do that for eg He Zhiwen, Liu Guoliang, etc...

 

[Lula]

I do not understand the question really. The best ball in my opinion is when you get a spinny loop against you.
More about the set up and quality of balls before. Samsonov had maybe best blocking game in the world, but if his quality of the balls before was to bad it did not matter that his block was good.
I would say you can try:
- long hard push: the ball will come back fast, so use their pace and hit short stroke
- half long push: hard for many to play really hard if it drops down so often spin the ball up, be ready to kill the ball
- or play short, so you get the chance to attack
- good placement so they get weaker attack
- in general with blocking and smashing: if you just block you take the ball early before the highest point. If you smash hard you wait for the highest point, but then you need to be able to create your own power. Had a coach that told me, "if you have the time to think this is an easy ball you should try to kill it"
- material: harder faster blades almost easier to get a harder block with or attack with short pimple. If the short pimple is softer or if the blade is softer the ball will sink in more and get nasty. Short pimple with more grip will have much more marginal for error when blocking. Short pimples with less grip and more effect will get nastier balls just by holding the racket there.

Good luck

 

[TenPercentWinRate]

I do not understand the question really. The best ball in my opinion is when you get a spinny loop against you.
More about the set up and quality of balls before. Samsonov had maybe best blocking game in the world, but if his quality of the balls before was to bad it did not matter that his block was good.
I would say you can try:
- long hard push: the ball will come back fast, so use their pace and hit short stroke
- half long push: hard for many to play really hard if it drops down so often spin the ball up, be ready to kill the ball
- or play short, so you get the chance to attack
- good placement so they get weaker attack
- in general with blocking and smashing: if you just block you take the ball early before the highest point. If you smash hard you wait for the highest point, but then you need to be able to create your own power. Had a coach that told me, "if you have the time to think this is an easy ball you should try to kill it"
- material: harder faster blades almost easier to get a harder block with or attack with short pimple. If the short pimple is softer or if the blade is softer the ball will sink in more and get nasty. Short pimple with more grip will have much more marginal for error when blocking. Short pimples with less grip and more effect will get nastier balls just by holding the racket there.

Good luck

This is when you have the ball under the control.

What I mean by the ‘upper hand’, and ‘forced into a defensive position’ is that the opponent manages to execute a high quality third ball attack (with good power) or gets you into a rally. In both cases, the opponent has control of the speed and placement of the ball more than you do.

Of course, in those situations any player would most likely lose the point. But my question is how SP should maximise the chances of winning if forced into it.

I think the majority of replies suggest that, in that case, forehand blocking with SP (which seems like big weakness for most SP players) shouldn’t be preferred over just trying your best to keep attacking.

Thanks for the good tips though!

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

Perhaps these matches of sp fh players would be helpful:

 

[Lula]

This is when you have the ball under the control.

What I mean by the ‘upper hand’, and ‘forced into a defensive position’ is that the opponent manages to execute a high quality third ball attack (with good power) or gets you into a rally. In both cases, the opponent has control of the speed and placement of the ball more than you do.

Of course, in those situations any player would most likely lose the point. But my question is how SP should maximise the chances of winning if forced into it.

I think the majority of replies suggest that, in that case, forehand blocking with SP (which seems like big weakness for most SP players) shouldn’t be preferred over just trying your best to keep attacking.

Thanks for the good tips though!

You are missing the point. Then you are service return is to bad. Even with backside you have problems if the return is bad. I disagree that blocking is so much harder with short pimple, maybe less margin for error. Have played with short pimple maybe 15 years and started to twiddle a bit. Would say the technique and footwork matter much much less with backside. You can basically be lazy and not move as much and still get a good stroke. Against topspin i feel you get quality in the ball and do not have to do as correct of a stroke, as long as you get topspin. So i would agree that backside is easier to play with.

I feel like the issue with backside(edit: mean short pimple) is push when you have to loop against backspin and when you let go of the table.
Blocking will not be an issue if you keep practicing with it. Maybe if it is medium pimples or short pimples with less grip, then it could be a bit different.
With short pimples it is important to always hit at the under side of the ball, so have racket a bit lower. At least if you just want to block. Less sensetive to spin since the ball sinks on the rubber. So if you close the angle or hit over the ball the safetely will be worse.

I hope it gets better for you!

 

[belllfador]

I dropped my SP game after one semi-pro destroyed me with fast and spiny services. My BH was Degu 2 in 1.8mm, which is spiny linear rubber with medium hardness. SP has hard and direct response and the "cushioning" during receiving needs to happen with a soft hand. Yet the margin of error is small. For comparison, I don't have these issues with MP, even H3 is better... I know that it is possible to overcome this weakness with practice and skills, but I am lazy and already have a solid game with LP, MP and inverted.

My tactic against FH SP attackers is to play low, fast and short. Pushing and blocking near the table with flicks to the sides when opportunity appears. Such opponents are a nightmare for a chopper or slow looper.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

For me the most important thing when I play these players is to survive the first few strokes and bring them in the rally where I have an advantage.

If I can receive well which means prevent them from hitting a winner directly then my chances increase a lot.

On my serve game if there is no other obvious weakness I will try to serve long with heavy backspin to their SP forcing a slow loop which can’t be heavy spin given their rubber and counter it.

Normally these players want to play the topspin rallies so I have to remember to receive like it’s knuckle or topspin if I can’t read the serve

 

[TenPercentWinRate]

For me the most important thing when I play these players is to survive the first few strokes and bring them in the rally where I have an advantage.

If I can receive well which means prevent them from hitting a winner directly then my chances increase a lot.

On my serve game if there is no other obvious weakness I will try to serve long with heavy backspin to their SP forcing a slow loop which can’t be heavy spin given their rubber and counter it.

Normally these players want to play the topspin rallies so I have to remember to receive like it’s knuckle or topspin if I can’t read the serve

This might be slightly off topic, but would you fear an SP all-out attacker (even in rallies despite them making considerable errors) or an SP blocker?

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

This might be slightly off topic, but would you fear an SP all-out attacker (even in rallies despite them making considerable errors) or an SP blocker?

Depends on who is more consistent. Blockers tend to have to vary placement and tempo (and can often utilize knuckle ball to greater effect from blocking) a lot more because in general they do not use as much speed so it can be annoying. But faster shots are always more threatening than slower ones because there is less time to get to the ball.