United States Smash 2026, Los Angeles, 6/26-7/5

[NextLevel]

Wouldn’t it be better to eliminate the ankle debate by just putting the throw clearly higher? And not in cm but over the head or something like that.
Next to eliminate for me is this hidden stuff. The ball has to be visible on the hand at start and also when you play the ball. A player cannot make something tricky to the ball, when it’s flying. m2c

I don't think the toss height completely fixes the issues with vertical tosses. I think the angle is the right approach. The problem of course is making it workable at all levels. But I am open to trying things including your suggestions. I think the most important thing is for the players to agree on a solution, the prevalent culture has been the biggest barrier, the tech has helped for more than hurt IMH, it is juat too expensive to fix the amateur game with the same issues.

 

[kindof99]

Hope Vladimir or Lind to win at the end. Lind has a good chance to beat Sora if he still holds that momentum against WCQ.

 

[NextLevel]

I have the same thought. WTT should round the numbers instead of using decimals like 30.4° = 30° and 30.5° = 31°. I think many of us doubt that the VAR can measure with 0.01° accuracy. IMO

Doubt is not evidence. Improving the optics is fine but i have explained why thr issue is being overblown and why rounding is not the point.

 

[kindof99]

I have the same thought. WTT should round the numbers instead of using decimals like 30.4° = 30° and 30.5° = 31°. I think many of us doubt that the VAR can measure with 0.01° accuracy. IMO

It appears that the new technology can do it with that high accuracy. Then why not?

 

[Kopp]

Hope Vladimir or Lind to win at the end. Lind has a good chance to beat Sora if he still holds that momentum against WCQ.

If Felix beats his brother, I think he'll be more likely to make the final than Lind. I hope to see Vladimir vs. Felix, but Vladimir vs. Lind would be great too.

 

[Oliverpool]

They can probably do it now on all infinity arena since TTR is already installed. So perhaps start automating it on smash when games are in the infinity arena as all the tops seeds play there.

In soccer the offside VAR is already almost fully automated.

The question is if a none vertical toss is a bigger issue then a hidden toss. I feel they should concentrate on finding a way to get rid of hidden or partially hidden serves.

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

Hina HAYATA(JPN) - Miwa HARIMOTO(JPN)
Felix LEBRUN(FRA) - Alexis LEBRUN(FRA)
JOO Cheonhui(KOR) - WANG Yidi(CHN)
Anders LIND(DEN) - Sora MATSUSHIMA(JPN)
WANG(CHN)/KUAI(CHN) - HARIMOTO(JPN)/HAYATA(JPN)
SUN Yingsha(CHN) - CHEN Xingtong(CHN)
JANG Woojin(KOR) - Truls MOREGARD(SWE)
KUAI Man(CHN) - Hitomi SATO(JPN)
Hiroto SHINOZUKA(JPN) - Vladimir SIDORENKO(AIN)
LIN(CHN)/HUANG(CHN) - WEN(CHN)/YUAN(CHN)

 

[NextLevel]

They can probably do it now on all infinity arena since TTR is already installed. So perhaps start automating it on smash when games are in the infinity arena as all the tops seeds play there.

In soccer the offside VAR is already almost fully automated.

The question is if a none vertical toss is a bigger issue then a hidden toss. I feel they should concentrate on finding a way to get rid of hidden or partially hidden serves.

The fact that players don't use the VAR as often to call the opponent's serve IMHO is one sign the issue has improved. Hidden serve is a tough call from where the umpire sits. But since toss angle is often a sign that the ball has ended up far away from where it was tossed, it is often a good indicator of serve hiding in the worst cases.

Some pros do believe that not pushing the rules to the limit on their serves would make their serves too transparent. So again, it goes back to the culture.

 

[kindof99]

Hina HAYATA(JPN) - Miwa HARIMOTO(JPN)
Felix LEBRUN(FRA) - Alexis LEBRUN(FRA)
JOO Cheonhui(KOR) - WANG Yidi(CHN)
Anders LIND(DEN) - Sora MATSUSHIMA(JPN)
WANG(CHN)/KUAI(CHN) - HARIMOTO(JPN)/HAYATA(JPN)
SUN Yingsha(CHN) - CHEN Xingtong(CHN)
JANG Woojin(KOR) - Truls MOREGARD(SWE)
KUAI Man(CHN) - Hitomi SATO(JPN)
Hiroto SHINOZUKA(JPN) - Vladimir SIDORENKO(AIN)
LIN(CHN)/HUANG(CHN) - WEN(CHN)/YUAN(CHN)

Hina HAYATA(JPN) - Miwa HARIMOTO(JPN)
JANG Woojin(KOR) - Truls MOREGARD(SWE)

 

[kindof99]

The fact that players don't use the VAR as often to call the opponent's serve IMHO is one sign the issue has improved. Hidden serve is a tough call from where the umpire sits. But since toss angle is often a sign that the ball has ended up far away from where it was tossed, it is often a good indicator of serve hiding in the worst cases.

Some pros do believe that not pushing the rules to the limit on their serves would make their serves too transparent. So again, it goes back to the culture.

One thing I don't like about TTR is that you can only challenge on one aspect of the serve. TO me, toss angle, height, and hidden should be able to be challenged all together.

 

[kindof99]

ALso umpires should be limited to two chances for wrong calls as well. That umpire on the Lind-WCQ match picked on Lind in my opinion especially on the second call.

 

[andymagata]

And yet - serving is not as big an advantage as it could be. Removing the few advantages the server has will make the sport a game of killer receives?

 

[NetProphet]

so you're just asking to change from 30 degrees to 30.5?

Players should try to obey the rules and if they want to toss at the very edge to get an advantage they will foul. if you change to 30.5 instead of 30 they will get called on 30.7 and say it should be 31

Absolutely incorrect.
You have missed the point I am making.
Firstly, the rules are the rules, that much is clear.
Secondly, we are all just sharing opinions here.
Mine is, that to measure/attempt to measure a serve toss to the 100th of a degree in order to tell the player that they are compliant or not, is completely ridiculous.
The tolerance is 30°, we know that.
I am not saying that WTT/ITTF or any other rule making body should amend this, that is a separate conversation entirely.
But to say 30° is fine and then use technology that may or may not measure the ball track in order to perfectly measure to a degree of magnitude where 0.0333% deviation is deemed incorrect.
I think even the terminology needed to discuss this shows how ridiculous this is. 🤷

None of this means that someone ask for 30.7° to be deemed legal, that is a nonsense statement

 

[tzifos]

The question is if a none vertical toss is a bigger issue then a hidden toss. I feel they should concentrate on finding a way to get rid of hidden or partially hidden serves.

This can be done only with camera on the player's ?!?neck?!?!? or upper chest ??

 

[NextLevel]

Absolutely incorrect.
You have missed the point I am making.
Firstly, the rules are the rules, that much is clear.
Secondly, we are all just sharing opinions here.
Mine is, that to measure/attempt to measure a serve toss to the 100th of a degree in order to tell the player that they are compliant or not, is completely ridiculous.
The tolerance is 30°, we know that.
I am not saying that WTT/ITTF or any other rule making body should amend this, that is a separate conversation entirely.
But to say 30° is fine and then use technology that may or may not measure the ball track in order to perfectly measure to a degree of magnitude where 0.0333% deviation is deemed incorrect.
I think even the terminology needed to discuss this shows how ridiculous this is. 🤷

None of this means that someone ask for 30.7° to be deemed legal, that is a nonsense statement

Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, we are still waiting on your *evidence* that the measurement precision is unreliable.

 

[Oliverpool]

This can be done only with camera on the player's ?!?neck?!?!? or upper chest ??

No the current ttr system
Can already do this. It supposedly uses ai with the camera to show the ball flight as what the receiver would see. There has been a few ttr call for this. How “accurate”
This is the only thing really
Unknown. But it applies to
All calls so it is fair i suppose

 

[NextLevel]

Hina HAYATA(JPN) - Miwa HARIMOTO(JPN)
Felix LEBRUN(FRA) - Alexis LEBRUN(FRA)
JOO Cheonhui(KOR) - WANG Yidi(CHN)
Anders LIND(DEN) - Sora MATSUSHIMA(JPN)
WANG(CHN)/KUAI(CHN) - HARIMOTO(JPN)/HAYATA(JPN)
SUN Yingsha(CHN) - CHEN Xingtong(CHN)
JANG Woojin(KOR) - Truls MOREGARD(SWE)
KUAI Man(CHN) - Hitomi SATO(JPN)
Hiroto SHINOZUKA(JPN) - Vladimir SIDORENKO(AIN)
LIN(CHN)/HUANG(CHN) - WEN(CHN)/YUAN(CHN)

Hayata, Felix, Joo, Sora, Hayata/Harimoto, Sun, Truls, Sato, Shinozuka, Lin/Huang.

Really tough, but since my son was cheering for Argentina yesterday and reminded me of it every time I cheered when Cape Verde scored and Argentina won, this cannot compare to that, lol.

 

[apacible]

I'd like to share some information that I think is worth considering in the debate over the umpire's enforcement of the service verticality rule, specifically in relation to the 30-degree toss tolerance when TTR (Table Tennis Review) is used.

During the 2026 ITTF Annual General Meeting held on 3 May 2026, (2 months ago) the Hong Kong Table Tennis Association proposed Proposition A-03, an amendment to Rule 2.6.2 of the Laws of Table Tennis (ITTF Handbook). The proposal sought to define what a "near-vertical toss" means in the context of service.

Their reasoning was that defining "near-vertical" is important to avoid ambiguity. They put forward that when Table Tennis Review is used, 30 degrees should be the defined standard. This threshold had been tested in tournaments by umpires and players since 2024, and according to their study, the majority of players agreed that 30 degrees should be the standard. Anything beyond 30 degrees, as recorded by TTR, would therefore constitute a service fault.

The proposal was to amend Rule 2.6.2 to read as follows:

"The server shall then project the ball near vertically upwards, within 30 degrees of the vertical when measured by Table Tennis Review, without imparting spin, so that it rises at least 16cm after leaving the palm of the free hand and then falls without touching anything before being struck."

A 75% vote from all Member Associations was required to approve the rule change. The amendment garnered 92.23% and therefore passed. This 30-degree definition, when measured by TTR, is now part of the ITTF Handbook, replacing the previous version, which contained no such definition.

For the video of the amendment, you may view the YouTube recording of the 2026 ITTF AGM, specifically from the 6:01:30 mark to the 6:09:25 mark.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[kindof99]

This mostly is not about the resolution of measurement. 30 degree is the cut off point. Under 30 degree is legal, and over 30 degree is illegal. If the servers want to take the risk of serving very close to 30 degree, then it is his/her choice.

 

[NextLevel]

I'd like to share some information that I think is worth considering in the debate over the umpire's enforcement of the service verticality rule, specifically in relation to the 30-degree toss tolerance when TTR (Table Tennis Review) is used.

During the 2026 ITTF Annual General Meeting held on 3 May 2026, (2 months ago) the Hong Kong Table Tennis Association proposed Proposition A-03, an amendment to Rule 2.6.2 of the Laws of Table Tennis (ITTF Handbook). The proposal sought to define what a "near-vertical toss" means in the context of service.

Their reasoning was that defining "near-vertical" is important to avoid ambiguity. They put forward that when Table Tennis Review is used, 30 degrees should be the defined standard. This threshold had been tested in tournaments by umpires and players since 2024, and according to their study, the majority of players agreed that 30 degrees should be the standard. Anything beyond 30 degrees, as recorded by TTR, would therefore constitute a service fault.

The proposal was to amend Rule 2.6.2 to read as follows:

A 75% vote from all Member Associations was required to approve the rule change. The amendment garnered 92.23% and therefore passed. This 30-degree definition, when measured by TTR, is now part of the ITTF Handbook, replacing the previous version, which contained no such definition.

For the video of the amendment, you may view the YouTube recording of the 2026 ITTF AGM, specifically from the 6:01:30 mark to the 6:09:25 mark.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

@M51

This is very much for you. Asians take their table tennis seriously lol.