How much is going through your head during matches?

[Chrono]

I have seen various topics on serve strategies, etc , but this is intended to be a bit more broad. I have been wondering just how much thinking done in a match is just built into your subconscious vs actively thinking before and/or during a point.

I know that many players like myself serve instinctively and then kind of know what to expect for a return based on past experiences over time. But, I also wonder how many people map out every single serve they have and the likely responses and think about this before every point until it is possibly subconscious. Or do you just think in general terms like - i serve long and top, expect long and top back so I needy get ready faster. That might depend on the amount of serves/variations one has. Will thinking too much before the point slow your responses down during a rally? I know that getting a good ready position during a serve is probably the most important thing to be ready for the return and get ready for the 3rd ball.

I also know that some people have set strategies they plan to implement throughout a point, and they might have to think somewhat actively during a point. For myself, I know that I tend to just play based on instinct and reading the opponent for the most part.

I also know from my experience, when I play against long pips, I usually have to think much more actively. This is usually less of a problem because the points are generally slower. But, I have noticed on some points I do become tentative and get stuck in between choosing to loop or not (possible overthinking).

And, at least is practice matches, you may also be thinking about a few changes you are going through in technique or strategy.

I also know that some players are able to think extensively about there opponent's strengths and weakness between games and points.

How does all of this differ between amateur and professional players as well?

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

It's a good topic.
I think the answer is very personal for each player.

Personally, 3rd ball is probably my biggest weakness , due to poor recovery so I try to put extra focus and to be very aware. I have my set of serves, and know whats most likely to happen with receives so i prepare for it, and prepare for it, but try NOT to anticipate. During rally there is little time to think for me. Whatever time i have i try to focus on my balance and my grip.

What i've been working in recent weeks/months is to use my peripheral vision when i serve to keep an eye on my opponent and try to see ASAP his racket and what ball is coming back to me. Not doing that means losing 0.1s or 0.2s , or even not seeing the impact and not knowing what spin is coming back at me !

Against choppers, i know that i have to put an extra focus on keep on moving and keeping a good balance. When playing inverted rubbers, even with so so balance you can block a drive or loop. Against LP there are many float or underspin balls. An error in footwork is paid cash immediately.

 

[NextLevel]

I have seen various topics on serve strategies, etc , but this is intended to be a bit more broad. I have been wondering just how much thinking done in a match is just built into your subconscious vs actively thinking before and/or during a point.

I know that many players like myself serve instinctively and then kind of know what to expect for a return based on past experiences over time. But, I also wonder how many people map out every single serve they have and the likely responses and think about this before every point until it is possibly subconscious. Or do you just think in general terms like - i serve long and top, expect long and top back so I needy get ready faster. That might depend on the amount of serves/variations one has. Will thinking too much before the point slow your responses down during a rally? I know that getting a good ready position during a serve is probably the most important thing to be ready for the return and get ready for the 3rd ball.

I also know that some people have set strategies they plan to implement throughout a point, and they might have to think somewhat actively during a point. For myself, I know that I tend to just play based on instinct and reading the opponent for the most part.

I also know from my experience, when I play against long pips, I usually have to think much more actively. This is usually less of a problem because the points are generally slower. But, I have noticed on some points I do become tentative and get stuck in between choosing to loop or not (possible overthinking).

And, at least is practice matches, you may also be thinking about a few changes you are going through in technique or strategy.

I also know that some players are able to think extensively about there opponent's strengths and weakness between games and points.

How does all of this differ between amateur and professional players as well?

95% of this is related to the training hours. The more this features in your training hours, the more it becomes automatic. That is where the skills instincts and expectations are originally built.

 

[Jslick89]

I love this topic. I have a good friend who i believe over analyzes every single shot during a match and it becomes a detriment to his match play. When I give him tips. i try to remind him to focus on 1 or 2 simple things per point and to not dwell on previous mistakes.

Personally, one of my main thoughts its is to figure out the best way I can exploit my opponent using my own strengths. The matches I dominate are when I figure that out early into the match and my opponent is not able to adapt. The closer matches are the ones where my opponent is constantly adapting, and thus, i must also adapt my strategy to try and find a new pattern to exploit.


My helpful reminders to myself are always simple so that i do not fall into "paralysis by analysis". Things like - "stay low" "serve and get ready" "get the first spin" "move your feet" Most of the time, if my opponent is around the same level, the reason i am getting exploited is because i'm not doing all of those simple things lol.

of course, i'm not some ice cold mental killer. There are times when doubt and nervous energy creep into my body and negatively effects my performance. I try my best to squash those negative thoughts and feelings, but as Jesus says, the mind is willing but the flesh is week. Sometimes you cant help it and the loss occurs.

I agree with Nextlevel though...your mental and thought processes need to be practiced during training so that they become automatic during match play. the less you have to "actively" think and the more you can be instinctually effective, the better you will perform in a match.

 

[Chrono]

Yeah ideally could work all of this into training and over time like NextLevel says so can so it can all be natural. I usually have about 3 simple things in my head that im currently working on like Jslick89, and I would like to improve my 3rd ball like Takkyu_wa_inochi.

I think that will require reducing my # of serves (at least temporarily and work on the 3rd ball followups more for each. When serves are a strength, that becomes really hard to do without losing a bunch in short term.

It would be nice to have enough space in my head during a match to be able to better analyze each point or match trends. Maybe it just takes practice in reviewing the previous point, planning a serve, etc all between points. I am 100% guilty of overthinking it all but still miss basic strategy adjustments I shouldn't.

 

[Matteones]

This is a very interesing topic, and I think many many many amateurs would become so much better if they put much more intentionality in their game. Soooooo many amateurs I coach tell me "I just serve and then whatever happens happens". Well good luck with that, you will never be the best you can be.

This is of course such a big topic that it deserves hours and hours of thought and confrontation with coaches or sparring at the table itself. Everyone can do it. Everyone should do it, doesn't matter if you have a coach or not!

I divide this in two parts:

- Long term strategy is what you develop during your training hours, and it includes not only the technique but especially what kind of combinations you play best and developing a set of serves (and receive to a lesser extent) that reliably get you to play those combinations and of course trying to become more complete in what you do well. Long term strategy is not about winning now, is about becoming the best player that you can down the line, even if it involves some losing in the short - medium term.

- Tactics is the specific plan you execute during the match. Please know that you cannot think whilst you are playing the point, you should think before you play each point. And please never ever think of technique in a match you are really trying to win, it is not the time nor the place: once the ball is in play it is your "muscle memory", your training, that will play for you.

Everyone falls in a continuum that goes from "I try to dominate and impose my game no matter what" to "I can do everything, will give you no chance to get into a rythm, will find and exploit your weaknesses, whatever they are." In each single match with different opponents you may change on that continuum.

I highly highly recommend to enter each match knowing what your A game is, and try to dominate with that. To do this you must have prepared a set of services, knowing full well what third and fifth balls are. Analyze your matches, play many of them and recognize the patterns if you don't have a coach who can do it for you, videotape yourself.
IF your A game is not enough to win, and the opponent's style doesn't match it well, you pass to your B, or even C game. To do this you must know you can do it, and you must think about it.

Here is a personal example from me:
I am a left-handed player, and relatively to my level I have very good serves, good touch on short balls, very spinny forehand and backhand, very powerful offense. My defense vary from match to match, I try to counterloop everything to overpower you but if that doesn't work I can block or even fish.
My legs don't move well, not because of physical limitations but because I never learned how to move them well (I started quite late at 16 y.o. and only had group coaching) and because of this if you are good at targeting my elbow, I usually will be in trouble (I'm supposing that the opponent is around my level here of course).

This set of characteristics and my extensive experience against all sort of pimples and the like makes me very strong against defensive players (doesn't matter if at the table or behind the table). With them I serve long and fast targeting pimple or antispin or whatever they have and then just crash the ball. This is usually enough. But if the defensive player has good offensive weapons, can twiddle and/or has a very good forehand and fast legs, I will introduce short serves, mainly no-spin targeting material or heavy backspin because that's a variation many players fall for. Then I proceed crashing the ball with the forehand. I don't usually use backhand with those players.

This same sort of characteristics makes me weak against quick offensive players (who don't fall for my serves) who can attack me first and exploit my weaknesses. Against them I need to play a tight short game and be the first player to spin the ball (slow and spinny and then crush the next). If this doesn't work and they are better at attacking first I will try to make them uncomfortable in their attack and counter a first weak spin. If that doesn't work I try to block and move them around. If that doesn't work I will even resort to fishing (you'd be surprised how much that works even at a high level - up to semi-pro).

 

[J-fed]

This is a very interesing topic, and I think many many many amateurs would become so much better if they put much more intentionality in their game. Soooooo many amateurs I coach tell me "I just serve and then whatever happens happens". Well good luck with that, you will never be the best you can be.

This is of course such a big topic that it deserves hours and hours of thought and confrontation with coaches or sparring at the table itself. Everyone can do it. Everyone should do it, doesn't matter if you have a coach or not!

I divide this in two parts:

- Long term strategy is what you develop during your training hours, and it includes not only the technique but especially what kind of combinations you play best and developing a set of serves (and receive to a lesser extent) that reliably get you to play those combinations and of course trying to become more complete in what you do well. Long term strategy is not about winning now, is about becoming the best player that you can down the line, even if it involves some losing in the short - medium term.

- Tactics is the specific plan you execute during the match. Please know that you cannot think whilst you are playing the point, you should think before you play each point. And please never ever think of technique in a match you are really trying to win, it is not the time nor the place: once the ball is in play it is your "muscle memory", your training, that will play for you.

Everyone falls in a continuum that goes from "I try to dominate and impose my game no matter what" to "I can do everything, will give you no chance to get into a rythm, will find and exploit your weaknesses, whatever they are." In each single match with different opponents you may change on that continuum.

I highly highly recommend to enter each match knowing what your A game is, and try to dominate with that. To do this you must have prepared a set of services, knowing full well what third and fifth balls are. Analyze your matches, play many of them and recognize the patterns if you don't have a coach who can do it for you, videotape yourself.
IF your A game is not enough to win, and the opponent's style doesn't match it well, you pass to your B, or even C game. To do this you must know you can do it, and you must think about it.

Here is a personal example from me:
I am a left-handed player, and relatively to my level I have very good serves, good touch on short balls, very spinny forehand and backhand, very powerful offense. My defense vary from match to match, I try to counterloop everything to overpower you but if that doesn't work I can block or even fish.
My legs don't move well, not because of physical limitations but because I never learned how to move them well (I started quite late at 16 y.o. and only had group coaching) and because of this if you are good at targeting my elbow, I usually will be in trouble (I'm supposing that the opponent is around my level here of course).

This set of characteristics and my extensive experience against all sort of pimples and the like makes me very strong against defensive players (doesn't matter if at the table or behind the table). With them I serve long and fast targeting pimple or antispin or whatever they have and then just crash the ball. This is usually enough. But if the defensive player has good offensive weapons, can twiddle and/or has a very good forehand and fast legs, I will introduce short serves, mainly no-spin targeting material or heavy backspin because that's a variation many players fall for. Then I proceed crashing the ball with the forehand. I don't usually use backhand with those players.

This same sort of characteristics makes me weak against quick offensive players (who don't fall for my serves) who can attack me first and exploit my weaknesses. Against them I need to play a tight short game and be the first player to spin the ball (slow and spinny and then crush the next). If this doesn't work and they are better at attacking first I will try to make them uncomfortable in their attack and counter a first weak spin. If that doesn't work I try to block and move them around. If that doesn't work I will even resort to fishing (you'd be surprised how much that works even at a high level - up to semi-pro).

Good stuff.
I’m wont to look at this from a psych POV and interpret the question as a comment on noise in one’s brain during matches or the ability (or unrealistic nature) of thinking during points.
Yours is probably the more direct answer though and it’s pretty helpful.
Gonna keep some of those things in mind.
I have conquered the internal chatter recently so now I think I can use that freedom to instruct myself to use more deliberate tactics.
It’s not that I don’t do that, but I’m sometimes lacking ideas.
Your suggestions are appreciated

 

[ajtatosmano2]

If I found a weakness, then I try to focus on that. But usually I just look at the opponent to figure out what to choose, to read their expectations and I have a idea what will come, both on serve and receive. And also keeping track on what works and what not, for example if I miss/pop up a lot forehand short receives to avoid it and instead push them long/step around for a BH flick. Stuff like that. But in tough situations I often blank out and the only thing I do is FH all table and focusing on godd spin. I am fast on my feet and my FH has a higher percentage in stressful situations.