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I'm disappointed in the lack of tack as well. I'm starting to look into other Chinese rubbers like 729 and Loki. Currently I'm using Rakza Z and it's tacky but not the same as that old DHS tack.

Well maybe not a world war but amongst parents for sure. lol

Thats the result of a society that doesn't value ethics. It's totally legal but also unfair. If all kids at that level developed that serve there wouldn't be any need to play the game.

That's a great idea. I'm going to study the Zhou Qihao serves now.

I think there's an age factor with that. Some older people who learned TT years ago before the new rules were put in place didn't learn that way. So that's what they grew up doing and to them is normal. I've played a few people who literally threw the ball into the racquet to serve. Kinda...

Are you saying the Nittaku is less tacky now? Didn't it used to be able to pick up a ball? The problem with Nittaku Hurricane and Sanwei Target National is that they weight 5lbs. I'm sure they're a good rubber but I'm not sure I can play with a hammer in my hands.

Yeah but that's a weak illegal serve. I want to do something that's completely unreturnable and blatant like Zhou Qihao's trick serve.

I'm using that one. The one I got from TT11 is not very tacky.

For this exact reason I've tried to develop an illegal serve of my own. Normally I try to abide by the rules and all my serves are legal to the point of being less effective. When I encounter one of these people I'd like to give back some of their own medicine. The only problem is I'm...

What is the deal with the trend toward no tack rubbers? Is there a shortage of tack rubber? Or does less tacky give more grip? If someone has been hording tacky rubbers they can make a killing on the black market.....

Yeah I think that was a good thing. It means they're looking at it and not afraid to make a call. They need to keep calling it so players will understand they cannot get away with it. At least they could lose a point. Another issue with pros making semi-legal toss or serve hiding is it...

That's because you've gotten used to uncontrolled circumstances and have accepted it. What if you didn't have to deal with it? Wouldn't it be a better game?

But it allows an unusual bounce that is almost impossible to return. Which takes away from skill in the game.

Well I guess you place game play over eliminating cheap points. I don't think it's a big sacrifice to eliminate something that isn't part of most other types of racquet sports. I can't think of many other sports where there are as many instances of points that are out of your control. I just...

I still don't see the issue. You would eliminate the unfair, unearned edge ball by giving up 20mm of a small possibility of changing your decision to loop or push. For me it's a no brainer. Like I mentioned before if people don't think the back edge should be tampered with you could only...

So you'd rather deal with an edge ball that could result in a lost point rather than changing your judgment to loop or push?

I don't understand the 2nd bounce issue. It's no different than any other ball that is short. We're talking 20mm here which wouldn't make a whole lot of difference for long or short balls. However the improvement would be massive to eliminate edge balls and unearned points. If that is such a...

I always thought edge balls are only considered in if it hits somewhere on the horizontal surface. Any vertical surface is considered out.

No, it's not a dead zone. A ball that hits on the line is considered in. Right? So if the ball hits anywhere on the horizontal surface is considered good with the extra area considered good. However if the ball hits an edge it would be outside of the line and considered out. Very easy to...

We're talking 20mm here. Half the width of the ball.