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    1. Top | #21
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Basten4 View Post
      First I think it is important to establish what glue are we talking about. I am sure glues are different from each other.
      of course, that is my understanding too.
      But heck, what do I know, since I am told by strangers on this forum that I have been doing a bad job all my life (or to be fair, since these new glues appear these few years), and lots of "mentors" I know doesn't know what they are doing....
      BYE BYE

    2. Top | #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      of course, that is my understanding too.
      But heck, what do I know, since I am told by strangers on this forum that I have been doing a bad job all my life (or to be fair, since these new glues appear these few years), and lots of "mentors" I know doesn't know what they are doing....
      Well, this interpretation is far away from what I have said:

      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      So your mentor has to rethink that and to really take in mind the difference between glues and the multylayer effect.
      My mentor may put 1-2-3 layers on the rubber, but only for a reason.
      Can you catch the difference in using several layers for a reason, and to always use more than one layer just to ensure gluing and/or because someone has bad results with one layer?

      Please be sincere.

    3. Top | #23
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      Well, this interpretation is far away from what I have said:



      Can you catch the difference in using several layers for a reason, and to always use more than one layer just to ensure gluing and/or because someone has bad results with one layer?

      Please be sincere.
      what ever you say, you ended with "not a good job" - you didn't quote it in this post.
      i don't mind and won't argue
      my mentor must rethink as you said, live moves on, no need to waste life about an extra layer of glue or not.

      Lots of coaches who teach 2 layers of glue (or more) without boosting, must come to you for courses. I will highly recommend them to learn from you

    4. Top | #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      what ever you say, you ended with "not a good job" - you didn't quote it in this post.
      i don't mind and won't argue
      my mentor must rethink as you said, live moves on, no need to waste life about an extra layer of glue or not.

      Lots of coaches who teach 2 layers of glue (or more) without boosting, must come to you for courses. I will highly recommend them to learn from you
      Ok, I agree. As I'm recently stuck to one kind of glue and one kind of rubbers only, what I would show will be a bit limited. But our club glue-job guru, a coach who is gluing the rubbers of almost every club player, may give usefull advices about when and why to use 1 or more layers, always with reason.

      Of course its up to everyone to do what he feels the best.

    5. Top | #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      of course, that is my understanding too.
      But heck, what do I know, since I am told by strangers on this forum that I have been doing a bad job all my life (or to be fair, since these new glues appear these few years), and lots of "mentors" I know doesn't know what they are doing....
      But then again, we have to take your word that the unnamed strangers you mention do it right. Whoever that is, mentors, pros whatever mean very little when we have no idea who it is. They are strangers too, but most importantly: why they do it and what is the real documented effect, if there is any at all.

      TBH, I spend my time on glueing properly 1 layer on the rubbers and 1 layer on the bat, as many others here already do. Never had any issues. I do not boost and the rubber always sticks well to the bat. For me it would be a waste of time, unless it is possible to really see an improved performance from a rubber glued with several layers. I do not like thin glues though, but that's probably just because I find the thicker ones easier to apply.

      If you look at this Butterfly video, only one layer is used:

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    7. Top | #26
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by whocarez View Post
      But then again, we have to take your word that the unnamed strangers you mention do it right. Whoever that is, mentors, pros whatever mean very little when we have no idea who it is. They are strangers too, but most importantly: why they do it and what is the real documented effect, if there is any at all.

      TBH, I spend my time on glueing properly 1 layer on the rubbers and 1 layer on the bat, as many others here already do. Never had any issues. I do not boost and the rubber always sticks well to the bat. For me it would be a waste of time, unless it is possible to really see an improved performance from a rubber glued with several layers. I do not like thin glues though, but that's probably just because I find the thicker ones easier to apply.

      If you look at this Butterfly video, only one layer is used:
      you are complete stranger to me too.
      my mentor is someone I know personally
      I'm not here to brag about him, but I am pretty much a bit more of a public figure than you or Langel
      Tony's Table Tennis is my business name, can we say the same with your name and Langel?

      I have a lot more of a credit to be lost if I lie or make about stories.
      For any other user (not saying its you or Langel), one can just change a User ID and then all history is erased

      If a slightly more public figure has no credit what so ever to you, then I can't really help him or you.
      Guys like Dan, Yogibear, Matt etc has chatted with me outside this forum and I'm sure they can vouch I'm not just a kid sitting at home bored and pretending I know everything.

      Somewhere in this thread, it says something about semi pro and DHS rubbers out of the factory.
      last time I got my hands on H3 Neo BS National, Thomas Keinath wanted to buy them off me, because he has never seen a 6-8 week old fresh one.
      Let me quote his words "Best (one he could get) is 4 to 6 month old. And your rubber is only 2 month old"
      I would say Thomas is semi-pro to pro, and can't get fresher rubbers than I can.

      I really don't want to show off too much, nothing to point out. But I am here to give my input and experience. I am not saying I'm right all the time for everything, but you get different glues, some brand employees even tells people to use more than 1 on rubber. You can't compare a Free Chack 2 to all the brands out there (thin, thick etc)
      If my input it helps people, great, if the likes of you don't believe me or for Langel to think i'm doing a bad job, I don't really mind
      and for comment that my mentor need to rethink. I just laugh (with respect)
      My mentor is someone who is more knowledgeable, experience in equipment than me, and 10 times more connected then I am. I think I am already more connected than most forum members here.

      I guess this is why lots of top coaches and equipment won't want to waste they time chatting to normal audiences.
      Its so difficult to please everyone, and everyone are all like PHD is table tennis here
      Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 12-19-2018 at 03:11 PM.

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    9. Top | #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      you are complete stranger to me too.
      my mentor is someone I know personally
      I'm not here to brag about him, but I am pretty much a bit more of a public figure than you or Langel
      Tony's Table Tennis is my business name, can we say the same with your name and Langel?

      I have a lot more of a credit to be lost if I lie or make about stories.
      For any other user (not saying its you or Langel), one can just change a User ID and then all history is erased

      If a slightly more public figure has no credit what so ever to you, then I can't really help him or you.
      Guys like Dan, Yogibear, Matt etc has chatted with me outside this forum and I'm sure they can vouch I'm not just a kid sitting at home bored and pretending I know everything.

      Somewhere in this thread, it says something about semi pro and DHS rubbers out of the factory.
      last time I got my hands on H3 Neo BS National, Thomas Keinath wanted to buy them off me, because he has never seen a 6-8 week old fresh one.
      Let me quote his words "Best (one he could get) is 4 to 6 month old. And your rubber is only 2 month old"
      I would say Thomas is semi-pro to pro, and can't get fresher rubbers than I can.

      I really don't want to show off too much, nothing to point out. But I am here to give my input and experience.
      If it helps people, great, if it doesn't, I don't really care.
      For people like Langel to say I do a bad job, and my mentor need to rethink. I just laugh (with respect)
      My mentor is someone who is more knowledgeable, experience in equipment than me, and 10 times more connected then I am. I think I am already more connected than most forum members here.
      Exactly.
      Last time i met Keini he showed me how he and many other pros use something like 2 layers on the blade and 6 to 8 on the rubber (depending on the glue)
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    11. Top | #28
      FruitLoop is offline
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      What is the purpose? Is it a mini speed glue effect or what?

    12. Top | #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Suga D View Post
      Exactly.
      Last time i met Keini he showed me how he and many other pros use something like 2 layers on the blade and 6 to 8 on the rubber (depending on the glue)
      You got there before me.

      I like a lot of layers of glue. But I don't care what my setup weighs. If I was using a setup that was under 200 grams it would probably make me a bit unhappy. And the reason I like lots of layers of glue is, to me, it makes the rubbers feel more elastic and responsive which feels nice.

      I originally got the idea from reading how certain pros, when they changed to the Water Based Glues, back in 2008-9, were using 7-15 layers of glue on the rubber. That sounds like a good number. Just add a little extra weight to the handle and you will have a beast of a weapon in your hands.

      I guess this also means I agree with Tony about the extra layers of glue too.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 12-19-2018 at 09:31 PM.
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    14. Top | #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by FruitLoop View Post
      What is the purpose? Is it a mini speed glue effect or what?
      Speed and protecting the top sheet of H3 from “bubbling”.

      I still argue that one layer on each side will make the rubber stick if you follow the instructions of the manufacturer. Use more layers if it makes you feel more secure as a retailer but it still doesn’t change the fact that one layer will work just fine as long as you haven’t soaked the rubber in black oil.

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    16. Top | #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by FruitLoop View Post
      What is the purpose? Is it a mini speed glue effect or what?
      I gave my answer. When I tried it I realized I liked it. I don't know if I would say it is a speed glue effect. I remember speed glue. Nothing compares to that stuff. That is like giving your rubbers cocaine. But, to me, the extra rubber from the glue feels like it gives the sponge more responsiveness and elasticity. So I like how it feels and to me, it makes the rubber and blade feel a little more alive.

      I am not really sure how extra glue on the sponge facing the wood would protect the topsheet from bubbling. But, when I used to boost with H3, I still liked the extra thickness of the glue. So, it is all good to me if it does protect the topsheet from bubbling.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 12-19-2018 at 09:46 PM.

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    18. Top | #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      you are complete stranger to me too.
      my mentor is someone I know personally
      I'm not here to brag about him, but I am pretty much a bit more of a public figure than you or Langel
      Tony's Table Tennis is my business name, can we say the same with your name and Langel?
      I still really do not care that you are a public figure, I am looking for what the effects of adding more layers of glue really do with the sponge except adding more weight. I have never implied that you lie, I still just wonder why anyone would bother with extra layers except for added weight, maybe it helps with boosting, or a placebo effect (don't underestimate this one). If there really is a documented effect, then why not show it in the official Butterfly video I linked to? They must care about selling you more glue and giving you advice on getting your equipment to work in an optimal way, right?

      Yeah, sure, maybe some glues are different, I will not generalize. The few ones I have tried like Freechack II/Pro, Finezip and Donic have worked just fine with one layer only. If they would require many, many layers for *just* a strong bond, I would really not waste my time.

    19. Top | #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by whocarez View Post
      I still really do not care that you are a public figure, I am looking for what the effects of adding more layers of glue really do with the sponge except adding more weight. I have never implied that you lie, I still just wonder why anyone would bother with extra layers except for added weight, maybe it helps with boosting, or a placebo effect (don't underestimate this one). If there really is a documented effect, then why not show it in the official Butterfly video I linked to? They must care about selling you more glue and giving you advice on getting your equipment to work in an optimal way, right?

      Yeah, sure, maybe some glues are different, I will not generalize. The few ones I have tried like Freechack II/Pro, Finezip and Donic have worked just fine with one layer only. If they would require many, many layers for *just* a strong bond, I would really not waste my time.
      It is against the rules to make the sponge thicker than max. There is a reason. And thicker gives you more of something. I would say more ability to spin and control power loop shots. It isn't actually speed. On a flat hit, a thinner sponge is actually faster. That is easy to test. It is more rebound from the sponge when you let the ball sink in on tangential contact which actually equals more mechanical spin.

      The glue is rubber. Some glues are more elastic. Having more layers does, in effect give you more rubber under the topsheet. I am not sure if I am right or wrong. But I know, I feel some things that others don't notice until I ask them to try and pay attention. To me, the extra layers of glue makes the rubber feel a little better.

      Will you feel that? I don't know. Does it really matter? I doubt it.

      If you think about the idea that you are adding an extra mm of rubber so that the sponge can move more on the wood, that in itself may give you an idea of why extra glue might be useful. But I also guess some glues are harder and less elastic than others when they are dry. The glue I like is a little softer and feels more rubbery when it is dry. But I am sure there are lots of glues in that category.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 12-19-2018 at 11:07 PM.

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    21. Top | #34
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by whocarez View Post
      I still really do not care that you are a public figure, I am looking for what the effects of adding more layers of glue really do with the sponge except adding more weight. I have never implied that you lie, I still just wonder why anyone would bother with extra layers except for added weight, maybe it helps with boosting, or a placebo effect (don't underestimate this one). If there really is a documented effect, then why not show it in the official Butterfly video I linked to? They must care about selling you more glue and giving you advice on getting your equipment to work in an optimal way, right?

      Yeah, sure, maybe some glues are different, I will not generalize. The few ones I have tried like Freechack II/Pro, Finezip and Donic have worked just fine with one layer only. If they would require many, many layers for *just* a strong bond, I would really not waste my time.
      so you choose to give credit to someone who is sitting behind a fake alias, and don't give credit to guys who sacrifice they own name as a public figure?
      geez, you sure can't please anyone.

      Well, if you believe me. I have probably tried most of the glue brands out there.
      Some brands tell you 1 layer, some tell you 2 layer (and if you guys want to say those brands are wrong, then you must replace them)
      I am also in a position to try lots of rubbers (I get samples from different brands)
      I will not comment on what is the best glue I like, but in the past, I also use 1 layer in the past until one of my mentors told me to have a better bond and performance of ESN/Tensor rubbers with thin glue to use 2 layers.

      Heck, please tell me (langel, whocarez), how that ultra thin 2nd layer will make the rubber perform worse?
      I would say 1 thick layer is still thicker than 2 thin layers.....

      And this is not for adding weight or speed. But just because the thinner glue dries more into pores and not surface, the 2nd layer gives it a better bond. I'm not sure why I need to reply myself here, and I'm sure not here to change your mind but to answer your question....

      If you feel this extra layer (both side) is adding weight by 1 gram to 2 gram... then I can't argue against you. and to make it extra clear...adding weight is not the reasoning

      Official documentation. Do you really believe in "official". Do you really believe that Butterfly says Timo Boll uses "regular" commericial Tenergy rubbers????
      Please don't be naive. I'm sure you know by now that a lot of "secrets" are out there and cannot be announced officially.

      1 glue layer, 2 glue layer, it all works
      HECK, i'm not here to convince your or Langel to add 1 more layer, I am RESPONDING to OP and giving him the weight as per the OP....
      Why the hell am I wasting so much unnecessary time
      And why are you guys trying to convince everyone to go your method?
      Whole world is wrong, Carl is wrong, Chinese coaches are wrong, only Langel and Whocarez are right??
      Who are you guys, please advertise and tell me.... if you afraid do go public, you can email me on info@ttshop.co.za
      Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 12-20-2018 at 05:20 AM.

    22. Top | #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      You got there before me.

      I like a lot of layers of glue. But I don't care what my setup weighs. If I was using a setup that was under 200 grams it would probably make me a bit unhappy. And the reason I like lots of layers of glue is, to me, it makes the rubbers feel more elastic and responsive which feels nice.

      I originally got the idea from reading how certain pros, when they changed to the Water Based Glues, back in 2008-9, were using 7-15 layers of glue on the rubber. That sounds like a good number. Just add a little extra weight to the handle and you will have a beast of a weapon in your hands.

      I guess this also means I agree with Tony about the extra layers of glue too.
      Yeah, I know what you are saying
      Boosting is one thing
      adding more glue to your "effect" is one thing
      but what I am saying is more about the bond. And i have tested it before (put same rubber, 1 layer vs layer and then take off the rubber after a day)

      never the less, when I'm back in the east and visiting training halls with world top players.
      Some does just put 1 layer on for training - no time to waste and they have unlimited rubbers to change.
      They do a rough job of gluing and a rougher job of cutting (for training)
      And these are the non booster players.

      I actually want to see Whocarez and Langel go to these "successors (when compared to your average forum professor)" who put more than 1 layer on (non boosting) and teach them that it will make the performance of rubber drop or there is they are doing it against official videos....
      I would rather say, his/her rubber is better than the shops.... but heck, what do I know hey

    23. Top | #36
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      Tony"s Table Tennis - I know very well when and why one would use 1 or more layers, so its useless to convince me, I know the reasons and in all my posts I've said that anyting you do it should be for a good reason.
      What I don't agree with, is to use more than 1 layer just and only to assure gluing /with the exception when you are new in that job/.
      In your first posts you stated that the reasons you use 2 layers are 1.your mentor advice, and 2.the bad results of another master using 1 layer.
      These are not good reasons.

      Back to the OP question - OP has problems with the weight using many layers of glue.
      Many layers are not needed. Use just 1 layer on the blade and 1 layer on the sponge. Find a good glue for the purpose, I've mentioned 3 already. With the time you would find the glue for you and maybe you will find good reasons to use more layers depending on the type of blade and rubbers, how often you change them, do you use to reglue, etc.

    24. Top | #37
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      Tony"s Table Tennis - I know very well when and why one would use 1 or more layers, so its useless to convince me, I know the reasons and in all my posts I've said that anyting you do it should be for a good reason.
      What I don't agree with, is to use more than 1 layer just and only to assure gluing /with the exception when you are new in that job/.
      In your first posts you stated that the reasons you use 2 layers are 1.your mentor advice, and 2.the bad results of another master using 1 layer.
      These are not good reasons.

      Back to the OP question - OP has problems with the weight using many layers of glue.
      Many layers are not needed. Use just 1 layer on the blade and 1 layer on the sponge. Find a good glue for the purpose, I've mentioned 3 already. With the time you would find the glue for you and maybe you will find good reasons to use more layers depending on the type of blade and rubbers, how often you change them, do you use to reglue, etc.
      no, there is no 2 reasons
      the reason is the same, read again...
      for my that reason is good enough
      for you and for whocares, that reason is not good enough
      so what is the fuss about? who cares if you or whosecarez like it or not, that isn't the point right?

      and no, I'm no new in the job.
      my shop started in 2012
      I have been gluing rubbers for close to 2 decades before I started my shop

      Or maybe I have no clue what I am doing, the thousands of rubbers I have glued is all a big failure
      Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 12-20-2018 at 06:40 AM.

    25. Top | #38
      langel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      Or maybe I have no clue what I am doing, the thousands of rubbers I have glued is all a big failure
      No, its not a Big failure.
      Its just not needed while you are good in the job and unless the customer has ordered more layers for some reason. Thats my point.
      And what is most important - its not relevant to advice more than 1 layer to someone who cares about the weight and is asking how many layers are enough , or needed . The correct answer is 1 layer is enough for gluing. How much are needed - 1 layer is need for the purpose of gluing. More layers? - you must know why you need them.

    26. Top | #39
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      No, its not a Big failure.
      Its just not needed while you are good in the job and unless the customer has ordered more layers for some reason. Thats my point.
      And what is most important - its not relevant to advice more than 1 layer to someone who cares about the weight and is asking how many layers are enough , or needed . The correct answer is 1 layer is enough for gluing. How much are needed - 1 layer is need for the purpose of gluing. More layers? - you must know why you need them.
      Please give me your true name and contact number
      When ever I see people using 2 layers, I will give your details to them
      I will tell them I know a genius from TTD who can fix problems for free.

    27. Top | #40
      langel is offline
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      Forehand Rubber Xiom Omega VII Asia 2.0, Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0
      Backhand Rubber Xiom Omega VII Asia 2.0, Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0

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      Ok, I'm ready to give advices for free. Sending contacts to you with PM.
      Yet I'm not a genius and I don't want to be. If you feel you are, let it be, no offence.
      And a coach in the club is always ready to glue for free, multilayer too if there is a good reason, so wellcome.

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