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    Thread: I am disgusted!

    1. Top | #1
      Michal_Z is offline
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      I am disgusted!

      I just watched the final of German open, which is probably the most prestigious tournament in europe Pro Tours, if not the most prestigious Pro Tour tournament, and in the tournament everyone was pretty much destroyed by just a 16 years old kid.
      I mean - what the hell?!
      I am really disgusted at this,..
      I am sorry for Fan Zhendong fans, but this is just sick. How can european players .. or lets say - non chinese players - be motivated and even think about winning a tournament, when they get their ass kicked by just a 16 years old kid?!
      Frankly, seeing this, its making me wanna trow out..
      Its is just no good for the competition.
      Fan Zhendong played really some amazing table tennis and I hated it, because of his age. If he can do this in 16 years old, that means, for the next 10 years, I really dont see any chance for any non chinese player to even think of becomming a world champion.
      And that is just not good for the competition.
      Once again - I am disgusted!

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      XuXin88 (11-17-2013)

    3. Top | #2
      jedimasterplk is offline
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      I wouldn't go as far as using the word disgusted myself, but I can see where you are coming from. My word would be - disappointed. And the way to describe the TT scene would be - depressing. Lets look at Dima for instance. In the last game, he was winning - purely by really going for spin, really, really spinning the ball. The immense spin, and high arc had two effects - first, it gave him time to recover for the next stroke because of the high arc over the net - thus giving him time for the next shot - but also, it made Fan Tentative, by giving him more time to think. Dima simply could not (and no one probably can, except another Chinese like Malong) to take this kid on based purely on speed and power. Then something happened - Dima lost his discipline, and game plan, got overexcited and tried to power through the kid with speed again, (ignoring his coaches advice to stick with spin) and lost the next 6 or so points, and ultimately the match. In terms of European, and even world competition - I don't see any other juniors who can even hold a candle to Fan. This kid, don't forget, can still play another 5 WHOLE YEARS in the under 21's. He is already ripped apart the worlds TOP SENIOR players. The conclusions to draw from this are - frankly - only depressing.

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      jedimasterplk is offline
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      And another couple of things - look at the complete rollicking and earful Fan got from his coach when he lost his game. The coach was furious!! he really let rip into him. Try doing that to anyone or any player here (in Europe). Our culture is now based on the softly softly approach - pussy footing around issues, being overly diplomatic, polite etc etc etc. In Europe, there is a good chance the coach would be sacked if he did that to a player. Look at the complete (lack of) discipline in European kids when they train. Its also a cultural thing. Fan, after that earful - went on to lead 10-0 in the next game and win the game 11-1. Another thing - at the top level in Europe - there is no drive to really go much much harder - Dima tries - but lets be honest - ultimately, he is already a millionaire. He is set for life if he has wise financial advisers. There are no European players coming through for him to share his pot with, so to speak. Now lets take a look at China - Zhang Jike for instance. Yes, he is rich - but IF he doesn't step up very quickly he will be simply kicked out of the Chinese team. Simple as that. So they are constantly pushing each other, because the minute you slack off, you are no longer eating from the top table.
      Last edited by jedimasterplk; 11-17-2013 at 03:17 PM.

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      NDY (11-17-2013)

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      TTFrenzy is offline
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      Dont get disappointed GET EVEN !

      European players are not so disciplined and fade away too easy. It all comes down to one question, are they willing enough to change themselves to become great players? Dima has improved a lot yes but he rushed too much both against XX int world cup and against FZD. This season is a turning point in his careed and he must take advantage of it.

      The crazy thing is that if he plays more safe with spin and placement 1. it is more easy 2. he can outsmart any opponent using tons of variations 3. he can calm down more easily and adapt to tactic changes.

      Check ZJK ML WH and Samsonov matches vs FZD they win easy points against him when slowing the tempo down and vary placement & spin, in a fast pace rally FZD is just too good right now

      Another thing euro players need to change is that they make too many unforced errors, there are many top euro players that have bad or unbalanced footwork.

      Adding all this facts together it is quite logical that the chinese dominate the world of TT. Primorac Waldner Persson Appelgren Samsonov Saive Gatien Kreanga Schlager werent as near as explosive as the chinese and they didnt have perfect technique but they were all creative players using tons of variation to beat the chinese in the 90's.

      TT is not only about raw power and speed, some times im getting bored at watching fast BH rallies or FH countertopspins all the time between the chinese.

      I think variation in combination with consistency can beat the chinese someday, but the disappointing thing is that the young europeans are not even as close to the chinese ones. Maybe in 10-15 years we can see a change and thats quite disappointing
      I suck real bad so I train to suck less

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      Bishop Rasta 27 (11-18-2013)

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      Mikael Berglund is offline
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      Lots of interesting ideas! I like TTFrenzy's analysis. FZD is the strongest in bh-bh right now. Dima played wery well when he was focusing on spin, breaking up the game. Samsonov was also able to disturb him with good placement. I saw Jörgen Persson out-play ZJK in bh-bh, when Jörgen was 45 years old! The swedish golden generation combined ruthless consistency training with creativity. That's why they were able to win. You need both things.

      FZD has a very basic in-game tactic. Use that to your advantage. Look at Matsudeira who started looping with fh from bh, as FZD always plays diagonal.

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      courage1337 is offline
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      Prečo by si mal byť znechutený ? Keď niekto má talent ,ťažko trénuje, ide mu to tak by nemalo záležať na veku..

    11. Top | #7
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Its is just no good for the competition.

      Agree!!!

      So Europe - please make a plan,
      Are the 10 years old of today working hard to become pro in 2020 and be champion by 2024~2028?

      Its too easy to be emotional on forums.
      If you not fixing the problems, then problem is not just going to go away like *that
      Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 11-17-2013 at 05:21 PM.

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      M51 is offline
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      I said it in chat, I'll repeat it here - Fan Zhendong is the epitome of everything that's wrong with modern table tennis. So much raw power, so much insane speed, it's getting less and less pretty to watch. The Chinese dominance pretty much killed the interest for the sport here in Europe too.

      I think it's about time ITTF did something. Raising the net for a centimeter or two should be the first step.

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      Michal_Z (11-18-2013)

    14. Top | #9
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by M51 View Post
      I said it in chat, I'll repeat it here - Fan Zhendong is the epitome of everything that's wrong with modern table tennis. So much raw power, so much insane speed, it's getting less and less pretty to watch. The Chinese dominance pretty much killed the interest for the sport here in Europe too.

      I think it's about time ITTF did something. Raising the net for a centimeter or two should be the first step.
      So what if Chinese still do well after these new changes of nets, balls and any thing else?

      Some times I don't understand some peoples logic on this forum. You are not address the problem, but finding excuses.
      Do you see people complaining that FIBA should change rules to stop American dominance in basketball? No - but I see the world is catching up to them.
      Focus on the root of the problem. Pointing fingers will just get you further away from your root. Excuses doesn't help.

      Well done to a 16 year old who had to handle pressure and had many hours of hardship. One man's success is always anothers failure. But don't blame the man who worked harder than you. If you did work hard, then you need to work smarter. Europeans are not dumb, they will find ways to beat the Chinese, just like how they can handle the Americans in basketball. Don't need to really on rule changes or handicap matches for this to happen

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      Amayzde is offline
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      So your basicly scary he is going to win everything in the future? you cant tell him to just stop competing at this level thats just sad. I would actually love to see him in the future.

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      If you guys know anything about China then you know the ages of players are all arbitrary. When a birth certificate is turned in to the government it isn't immediately processed. Also eventually through mistakes of their own many people are given ages that are inaccurate. Fan Zhendong may be 16 years old by legal means, but look at the kids legs and success he's definitely much older than he seems. I would guess his age to be in the early 20's to be more accurate.

      This has happened in the US where chinese players come over here and when they were once already in their 20's in China when getting their visa and birth certificate they find they are actually much younger by their legal age.

      I would go as far as saying that any player who is hungry for it should put in the work and find the resources to play at their full potential. Look at Dima? He is incredibly successful at the moment both in the Super league as well as in European Championships.

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    19. Top | #12
      M51 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Amayzde View Post
      So your basicly scary he is going to win everything in the future?
      Personally, I'm concerned that in the near future, we'll be seeing a surge of unbeatable 13-year olds.

    20. Top | #13
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Mr RicharD

      I won't agree that FZD is 20 or so, his face is still a kid.
      He is defiantly still a teenager, maybe 18 at most.
      I remember some one who was saying Zhou (1 or 2 years ago) that he is 20 something too.
      Don't look at the body structure, look at the face and listen to the voice.

      I agree Dima is doing great and in great form too. I was hoping for him to win.
      But some flaws was exposed during the FZD game, so I hope him and his coaching staff will be spending hundreds of hours to work on the problem.

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      Xavelha is offline
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      hard work...pays.

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      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by M51 View Post
      Personally, I'm concerned that in the near future, we'll be seeing a surge of unbeatable 13-year olds.
      One thing for sure is 13 years old kids in China are so much easier to coach than in other countries.
      They work so much harder and have more discipline

      I know many coaches who can handle 20 to 40 kids at the same time.
      In other parts of the world, you will need 2 coaches to manage 5 kids at the same age.

      IMO, the problems is beyond playing table tennis. So if problems are not addressed, then certain countries will just weaker and certain countries will just get stronger. You can take China out of the context and just compare and see where the problem is.
      Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 11-17-2013 at 07:57 PM.

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      matzreenzi is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      So what if Chinese still do well after these new changes of nets, balls and any thing else?

      Some times I don't understand some peoples logic on this forum. You are not address the problem, but finding excuses.
      Do you see people complaining that FIBA should change rules to stop American dominance in basketball? No - but I see the world is catching up to them.
      Focus on the root of the problem. Pointing fingers will just get you further away from your root. Excuses doesn't help.

      Well done to a 16 year old who had to handle pressure and had many hours of hardship. One man's success is always anothers failure. But don't blame the man who worked harder than you. If you did work hard, then you need to work smarter. Europeans are not dumb, they will find ways to beat the Chinese, just like how they can handle the Americans in basketball. Don't need to really on rule changes or handicap matches for this to happen
      I agree with this...find solution but not excuse. Peace

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      ranniely is offline
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      What about different lifestyle of population? I'm not saying i know how people in China live, but i always thought that in europe players train train train, and have a good portion of "social life" too. But over there, do they only train train train, and train train train train some more? Am i wrong/correct? And is it easier to get distracted in Europe by other non TT related things than in China? We're all humans nonetheless. I guess i want to say, that over here, we do want to achieve greatness and sacrifice a lot of our time, but we want to live as well ...

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      Quote Originally Posted by matzreenzi View Post
      I agree with this...find solution but not excuse.
      Solution - rob our kids of their childhoods and turn them into robots.

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      Another factor is that in Europe TT is not so popular, and USA are not yet competitive enough. In fact only France, Germany and Romania only in women have respectable teams and good academies. Three countries against China is just not enough. Sweden, Russia and England can make a difference if they focus, they have the money and the facilities to do it. The difficult task is to assign the right coaches and managers to the right positions

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    29. Top | #20
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ranniely View Post
      What about different lifestyle of population? I'm not saying i know how people in China live, but i always thought that in europe players train train train, and have a good portion of "social life" too. But over there, do they only train train train, and train train train train some more? Am i wrong/correct? And is it easier to get distracted in Europe by other non TT related things than in China? We're all humans nonetheless. I guess i want to say, that over here, we do want to achieve greatness and sacrifice a lot of our time, but we want to live as well ...
      I understand and agree from where you are coming from.
      Today's kid in China also want social life. I think the persception the west has is really outdated, just like the post above about robots.
      I keep in contact with some of them, and they also have they fun lifes, even the coaches (young generations) have more open minded and what the players to have a better mix of social, life skills and table tennis.

      I think a fair suggestion I can make is, Europe has Europe's strong sporting codes.
      Europe has produce champions, Europe has the know hows. The solution is not in China, the answer is already in Europe.
      In Europe, the football clubs will scout and get 10 years olds to play for them, school them etc.
      In China, these 10 years old get send to TT sport schools, school them, train them.
      I see no different in approach.

      In Europe, the biggest obsticles is the parents in the field of TT. If the parents can let go, just like in football then i'm sure the progess will be better.
      Of course, I'm talking about the masses and not just your random Timo Boll etc.

      Same as what TTFrenzy said, only 3 countries....come on, China has 22 provinces + 4 metros + others is about 30 provinces, each having 30 to 50 millon people. You can't have 3 countries vs 30 countries. If this was war, I bet is easily on China.

      For what Europe is doing today, is already great, just imagine if the number increase by 3 folds. 3 folds isn't difficult.

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