38mm speed glue era table tennis

[NextLevel]

This refers mostly to the era between 1980 and 2001, with hidden serves and the speed glued rackets.

Was watching this match between two legends, one young and upcoming and the other well established at the time. 2 years later, they met in the World Championship finals.

 

[P1ngP0ng3r]

Trip to memory lane!
38mm, Rosskopf Fire with Samba both sides.
1hr before match glued wet, just before match 2 layers dry. Sound machine!

 

[NextLevel]

If a single tournament created the legend of Waldner (and of course, a single tournament did not), this would be the tournament. Won the WTTC singles title without losing a set/game. Here was the one CNT player he faced in that journey:

 

[JHB]

Even in 1995, how did Waldner get away with playing in a white shirt ??

 

[Vicke]

Even in 1995, how did Waldner get away with playing in a white shirt ??

Very strange rules indeed. In the match OP linked they at least played with a orange ball (can be seen at 4:55), I don't know about other matches or events though.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

If we're on the topic of speed glue, here is another great match of European legends facing off-

 

[zeio]

Fanboys/-girls: Who is GOAT?
Elder:
https://youtu.be/5GIj2BVJS2A?t=102

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...lly-length-really-decreased.21632/post-284992

Timeline:
- Sep, 2000: Good old days, 38mm celluloid, 21-point, hidden-serve and speedglue
Oct 1, 2000: 40mm celluloid
Sep 1, 2001: 11-point
Sep 1, 2002: No hidden-serve
Sep 1, 2008: Water-based glue
July 1, 2014: 40+ cellulose acetate by DHS/DFish, 40+ ABS by Nittaku
April, 2017: 40+ ABS across the board

After all these years, most rallies still end on the 4th shot.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...-table-tennis-players-in-wttc-history#1140584

There are many ways to look at stats.

It might have been better to separate the WTTC eras into "annual" (1929-1957) and "biennial" (1926-1928, 1959-1997, 2001) and "individual edition (odd-numbered years since 1999, 2003-)" and "team edition" (even-numbered years since 2000, 2004-).

And to go one step further, make note of:
38mm celluloid/hardbat/21-point/finger-spin/no-finger-spin/service toss/sponge/sandwich rubber/ball-must-be-falling-before-struck-when-serving/speed glue (1926-2000);
40mm celluloid/21-point/hidden-serve/speed glue (2001);
40mm celluloid/11-point/no-hidden-serve/speed glue (2003-2008);
40mm celluloid/11-point/no-hidden-serve/water-based glue (2009-2014);
40+ cellulose acetate/11-point/no-hidden-serve/water-based glue (2015-2016);
40+ ABS/11-point/no-hidden-serve/water-based glue (2017-)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Even in 1995, how did Waldner get away with playing in a white shirt ??

They use a yellow/orange ball back then

 

[NextLevel]

If people want to have an idea of why all the rule changes, this is one of my favorite matches that shows the power of hidden serves. This is a WTTC Semifinal by the way. Though to be fair, Liu wasn't do that much different from Waldner. If Ma Lin hadn't gotten Waldner in the other semis, the final would have been an interesting serve fest.

 

[mcangus]

If people want to have an idea of why all the rule changes, this is one of my favorite matches that shows the power of hidden serves. This is a WTTC Semifinal by the way. Though to be fair, Liu wasn't do that much different from Waldner. If Ma Lin hadn't gotten Waldner in the other semis, the final would have been an interesting serve fest.

Waldner had better rallying abilities than LGL who being a short pimples penholder couldn't defend or play from mid-distance.Waldner did just fine in rallies against his teammates who were familiar with his serves,LGL on the other hand could never beat Kong Linghui who wasn't even the best returner/rally player of his generation.
Waldner's serve game is exaggerated,it was abnormal only against lefties against Europeans who played him very often it wasn't anywhere as great as people think.
He always played long rallies against guys like Grubba and Primorac.There were many players who played long rallies with the 38mm ball,even Korean Penholders like Kim Taek Soo could move mid distance and hit many shots in a row.

 

[igorponger]

GONE IS GONE. Broken eggs.

 

[NextLevel]

Waldner had better rallying abilities than LGL who being a short pimples penholder couldn't defend or play from mid-distance.Waldner did just fine in rallies against his teammates who were familiar with his serves,LGL on the other hand could never beat Kong Linghui who wasn't even the best returner/rally player of his generation.
Waldner's serve game is exaggerated,it was abnormal only against lefties against Europeans who played him very often it wasn't anywhere as great as people think.
He always played long rallies against guys like Grubba and Primorac.There were many players who played long rallies with the 38mm ball,even Korean Penholders like Kim Taek Soo could move mid distance and hit many shots in a row.

The question is not whether one could rally (LGL obviously could if you watch the match, and he did win the final against his teammate Ma Lin if that is your primary argument), but whether winning a lot of points off the serve or even serve and third ball attack is beautiful table tennis. Waldner obviously played many years after the rule changes (though of course, one could debate whether hidden serves being illegal changed the sport in the period after the rules were instituted), while LGL had just about everything that made his game sharp get banned or defanged by the ITTF. Watching Waldner win a streak of points off his serve was not uncommon. For an overrated server, that is interesting.

 

[JHB]

They use a yellow/orange ball back then

I agree, but in most of the above footage the ball looks white - it only appears orange when they're knocking up. Possibly an optical illusion due to some technical limitation of the video technology back then ?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I agree, but in most of the above footage the ball looks white - it only appears orange when they're knocking up. Possibly an optical illusion due to some technical limitation of the video technology back then ?

correct

the ball from far away would seem lighter than closer up, even if with the naked up, watching live.
i'm sure camera technology back in the day is not as good

but, non white balls during white shirt era is a fact, so there should be no doubt about it.

the ball was changed to white and white was removed from the shirt years ago. someone who has the dates is welcome to share when this was changed, but the change over is also a fact and no doubt about that too

 

[OldUser]

true history of table tannis.

I'm not gonna let you in though

The rules were that you could either use orange or white balls, difference being orange ball= "dominant" white shirt allowed that could be >50% to 100% white, white ball=white allowed but under 50% of all the shirt.

Other rule: orange ball allowed on non green tables, the famous violet by Joola and blue ones only. White ball allowed on any colored table. Here the 1992 euro final between Rosskopf and Saive, green table + dark shirts + white balls, classic setup then:

As far as I can remember the law became effective in 1990, as you can see here the 1991 WTTC final between Waldner and Persson, blue table, Waldner's white shirt + orange ball

Two years before, only white balls + green tables, but a clear all yellow sweden shirt for Persson, the law was being under discussion already that's why they were allowing clear colors with white balls:

The law died within the LP aspect ratio rule in 1998, only white balls on any colored table, dark shirt only back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpfS7bziY1Y

In 1997 you could still use a 50% white shirt with white balls, but the law was already under discussion, hence Waldner giving up the white shirt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMFBAFe2kO8

EDIT: here the French Nationals in 1997, Stéphane Lebrun (Lebrun Bros. father) facing his soon to be brother in law Christophe Legoût in the double final, clear grey shirts, orange ball, blue table:

1997 Double France Chatelain Lebrun - Legout Chila

1997 Double France Chatelain Lebrun - Legout Chila

www.youtube.com

 

[NextLevel]

Someone asked on YouTube why FZD was called "Little Fatty" and it made me think of Wang Tao, who was my late coach's favorite player because he was a short and stocky guy. Here is a match vs Persson. Persson I love watching because his technique makes more sense to me than most modern players who are just too fast lol...

 

[Sticky]

They use a yellow/orange ball back then

@Tony's Table Tennis , would you by chance know how VOC/speed glues affect modern 40+ balls? Thanks.

 

[Metaxa]

true history of table tennis.

EDIT: here the French Nationals in 1997, Stéphane Lebrun (Lebrun Bros. father) facing his soon to be brother in law Christophe Legoût in the double final, clear grey shirts, orange ball, blue table:

1997 Double France Chatelain Lebrun - Legout Chila

1997 Double France Chatelain Lebrun - Legout Chila

www.youtube.com

Now we know where the illegal services come from at the Lebrun's...🤣

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

@Tony's Table Tennis , would you by chance know how VOC/speed glues affect modern 40+ balls? Thanks.

i'm not sure if i'm reading your question correctly, as how it affects 40+ balls..... 40+ ball is bigger, less spin and speed than 38mm.

well, booster is the equivalent of modern day voc/speed glue, just last longer.
I have used modern day speed glue, and it only last few hours. Felt like booster, a bit softer, but next day, its not so soft any more. So booster is actually more consistent than speed glue, which every time, it could be slightly different.
so i've answer what is the difference between booster and speedglue etc,

I'm not sure how to put in 40+ ball into the equation, as what is being compared (if it isn't booster)?

 

[iammaru]

Samsonov was incredible. Look at the video in the first post. It was the era of hidden serves, yet his serves were more visible than 101% of players these days. Crazy stuff!! Did he ever hide his serves? I can’t remember.