Basic advice on knowing spin from long pips?

says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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It's really not fun playing against long pips defender.
I think this means you should probably practice as much as you can vs LP. If you did, you would improve your whole game vs LP and vs two winged loop players.

BTW: if you struggle against 1600 level LP players, this tells you something worth understanding.

 
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I think this means you should probably practice as much as you can vs LP. If you did, you would improve your whole game vs LP and vs two winged loop players.

BTW: if you struggle against 1600 level LP players, this tells you something worth understanding.

Yeah I guess I should practice more against LP, but I just don't enjoy the game as much against two wing players. I like the sensation of blocking and countering with my backhand. I like the backhand to backhand rallies.

Well I'm not surprised that I struggle against LP, because it's a completely different game dynamic and rhythm, and this is the first time i've ever played against LP. I struggle against styles that force me to change my stroke or rhythm, like I also struggle against penhold push-block style. But that is a smaller adjustment than against LP.

I'm also not surprised that when we reversed roles, the LP guy had no chance against my LP chop. It's a completely different game that neither of us are prepared for.

 
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Also, it's interesting to note that this guy was originally a two wing attack style around a solid 1500.

He suddenly changed to LP style, and suddenly started beating 1700 and 1800 guys (although he hasn't beaten me yet). This shows that a lot of folks out there are just totally unprepared to play against LP. He basically jumped 300 USATT points just by switching to LP.
 
says Spin and more spin.
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Yeah I guess I should practice more against LP, but I just don't enjoy the game as much against two wing players. I like the sensation of blocking and countering with my backhand. I like the backhand to backhand rallies.

Well I'm not surprised that I struggle against LP, because it's a completely different game dynamic and rhythm, and this is the first time i've ever played against LP. I struggle against styles that force me to change my stroke or rhythm, like I also struggle against penhold push-block style. But that is a smaller adjustment than against LP.

That is just that you are not used to playing vs that and therefore it is new to you and so, it is a different thing than what you are used to. But if you play vs LP enough, you start getting used to it and learning a lot more about skills in TT that you have not yet really developed. At a certain point it becomes more fun than it is now.
I'm also not surprised that when we reversed roles, the LP guy had no chance against my LP chop. It's a completely different game that neither of us are prepared for.

That is not really a valid test. He is probably not used to playing without the pips. You changed something that it sounds like you did not have trouble getting used to. But his BH was probably a liability no matter what you sent to him when he was using your racket.

You should try using his racket against someone who does play smooth rubber on both sides and see what happens. That would be a better test for you.
 
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That is just that you are not used to playing vs that and therefore it is new to you and so, it is a different thing than what you are used to. But if you play vs LP enough, you start getting used to it and learning a lot more about skills in TT that you have not yet really developed. At a certain point it becomes more fun than it is now.


That is not really a valid test. He is probably not used to playing without the pips. You changed something that it sounds like you did not have trouble getting used to. But his BH was probably a liability no matter what you sent to him when he was using your racket.

You should try using his racket against someone who does play smooth rubber on both sides and see what happens. That would be a better test for you.
Well I wrote in a later post that he was a two wing style player, and suddenly changed to LP 2 weeks ago. So he has far more experience playing loop style than LP style. Actually I wasn't particularly good at LP style, but I just let the rubber do the work for me and watch my opponent make errors.

I actually had a random Butterfly defensive racket lying around that somebody gave me ages ago, so I just decided to spend $6 on a LP rubber to glue onto it. I will test out the LP against some other opponents and see if they also struggle. But my strong impression at this moment is that they will win fewer points against my LP than my regular rubber, despite me having no experience with LP. I just think it will throw off a lot of guys.

 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Well I wrote in a later post that he was a two wing style player, and suddenly changed to LP 2 weeks ago. So he has far more experience playing loop style than LP style. Actually I wasn't particularly good at LP style, but I just let the rubber do the work for me and watch my opponent make errors.

I actually had a random Butterfly defensive racket lying around that somebody gave me ages ago, so I just decided to spend $6 on a LP rubber to glue onto it. I will test out the LP against some other opponents and see if they also struggle. But my strong impression at this moment is that they will win fewer points against my LP than my regular rubber, despite me having no experience with LP. I just think it will throw off a lot of guys.

Yeah. It will throw off the people who don't know how to play against LP. But not vs someone who does.

 
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And if you legitimately wanted to get to a high level, probably, making it a point to learn how to play vs LP would cause your level go up more than most of the stuff you are currently doing. It would actually help you adjust to a lot of other styles of play as well.
 
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And if you legitimately wanted to get to a high level, probably, making it a point to learn how to play vs LP would cause your level go up more than most of the stuff you are currently doing. It would actually help you adjust to a lot of other styles of play as well.

Yeah You are probably right. I will practice more. I notice vs LP, there are a lot of "half balls" where the spin isn't up or down, the length isn't quite long or short. So I think playing LP shows you many more balls that you don't see in standard inverted rubber matches.

What are your ways of playing against LP?

As I said, I usually can hit 1 or 2 loops against LP, but by the 3rd chop, it has insane spin on it.

 
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You should read what NextLevel, Der_Echte and Brs say in the Video thread on ways they play vs LP. They outline some different things that are valuable. And it is nice because there is not really that much overlap.

I try and force dead balls longer and higher so I can attack without needing to put too much spin on the ball when possible.

When the spin starts getting loaded as a result of your loops, knowing how to put the ball back dead is valuable. But, really, you have to figure out your own strategies.
 
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When I serve underspin to LP, I notice that it often comes back high and dead. I feel like I should be able to attack this ball, but I was pretty conservative with dealing with this ball.

I'm afraid of smashes falling into the net, and I'm afraid of loops going long. Somehow this ball is awkward for me to hit with force.
 
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When I serve underspin to LP, I notice that it often comes back high and dead. I feel like I should be able to attack this ball, but I was pretty conservative with dealing with this ball.

I'm afraid of smashes falling into the net, and I'm afraid of loops going long. Somehow this ball is awkward for me to hit with force.
Again, when you are training, you are trying things. Winning and losing is not the point. Experiment with those balls. Let yourself miss some shots to figure out how to deal with them.

You need to think differently about this stuff. Some of what is holding you back is that the idea of keeping the ball in play is keeping you from learning better ways of handling the same scenarios. Sometimes you learn more from experimenting and missing than you will from doing the same stuff and putting weak shots on the table.

 
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Another thing I really hate about playing against LP is that I feel that it wears out the FH looping rubber a lot more than the BH rubber, which is not particularly engaged against LP. I feel like it ruins your beautiful racket setup.
 
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Another thing I really hate about playing against LP is that I feel that it wears out the FH looping rubber a lot more than the BH rubber, which is not particularly engaged against LP. I feel like it ruins your beautiful racket setup.
If this is true You are using garbage rubbers…

Cheers
L-zt
 
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If this is true You are using garbage rubbers…

Cheers
L-zt
If you say so.

I'm using H3 provincial on the FH side. I feel i'm always hitting hard loops with the FH against pips, but just making a few gentle pushes or blocks with the BH. Just like how a car puts more wear on the front tires for FWD, I feel the FH rubber gets worn out faster.

Against two wing players, the wear and tear is more balanced.

 
If you say so.

I'm using H3 provincial on the FH side. I feel i'm always hitting hard loops with the FH against pips, but just making a few gentle pushes or blocks with the BH. Just like how a car puts more wear on the front tires for FWD, I feel the FH rubber gets worn out faster.

Against two wing players, the wear and tear is more balanced.

Well, if you loop against long pips this means you get mostly under spin back. Most people says that you turn the the spin around when looping an under spin. This is wrong your loop is WITH the spin. Looping on a top spin ball is more damaging for your rubber since you then really physically totally reverse the spin…
Your reasoning does not make sense.

Cheers
L-zr

 
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Well, if you loop against long pips this means you get mostly under spin back. Most people says that you turn the the spin around when looping an under spin. This is wrong your loop is WITH the spin. Looping on a top spin ball is more damaging for your rubber since you then really physically totally reverse the spin…
Your reasoning does not make sense.

Cheers
L-zr

I completely agree with you that looping with underspin is less damaging to the rubber than looping against the spin. That is not the point I am making.

I am saying that playing against LP, 99% of loops (with the spin and against the spin) are with the FH. And probably 75% of all shots in general are with the FH. This causes the FH rubber and BH rubber to wear out at different rates, which I don't like.

Playing against inverted rubber is more balanced wear and tear.

 
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