BEST MEDIUM PIPS for both chopping and attacking?

[ggabb3399]

Hi everyone!

I'm looking for MEDIUM PIPS for my hybrid backhand play style, I have a very precise straight smash with inverted rubbers, but at the same time I'm very confident at chopping and I love using long pips that reverse the spin, so I'm looking for medium pips to do both confidently.

The rubbers I tried in the last months are: long pips: Brutal Metal TT (0.5mm) and DHS Cloud & Fog 3 (1mm) on Stratus Power Defense; medium pips: Spinlord Keiler 2 1.8mm on an old Stiga Legend blade.

So the first experiment with brutal metal (good reversal, difficult to block/push, super difficult to drive/smash) made me realize that attacking with long pips isn't easy and what's needed is a precise upward/forward motion to send a deadly smash on dead/high balls. With the Fog3 the situation got better (less reversal, but easier blocks and smashes) but overall the rubber has nothing special, not disruptive enough and not dangerous enough. With Keiler 2 1.8mm it was the opposite, perfect for attacking, almost like using inverted, I could flick short spinny serves and get easy points in 1-3 hits as the pips didn't suffer spin, but it didn't satisfy me as chop/blocking and chopping from medium/far distance was impossible because of the catapult effect and 0 inversion/backspin so I just had to attack.

So now I have built a nice combination with Victas Koji Matsushita Offensive- blade and K3 hybrid FX 2.0mm, the response for my forehand is linear and I like it a lot for topsins and smashing overall, and I recently got Grass D.Tecs 1.2mm because I really wanted to try it anyway even if I know that long pips are not my go to at this point, but it's a very nice rubber, chopping is good, inversion is good, control is good with proper technique, attacking is ok if i make a precise stroke like a light backhand topspin and I can hit hard enough to make a deadly smashes if I'm focused and don't hit with too much rush, because when I do, the ball goes straight into the net while when I open the blade too much it floats outside (I accepted it, all long pips react like this, some are easier than others).

I truly feel like I need medium pips too feel at peace with a rubber that would allow me to play defensively as if I have long pips and offensively as if I have short pips (I also want to twiddle the blade sometimes to have all the possible combinations of hits so the rubber has to be easy to use also with forehand), I know it's physically difficult because one tends to exclude the other, if I want pips with good grip to make nice flat smashes like with keiler2 I will have almost no reversal that I have with metal/fog3/grass.

I've made much research already, the best candidates seem to be: Nittaku Super Do Knuckle, Victas Curl P2V, Dawei 388 C1/2, Friendship 729 563, Spinlord Gipfelsturm (all with pros and cons). Didn't find much information on Dr Neubauer's KO, Aggressor and Yinhe Pluto Moxa.

TLDR I want comfort for my offensive play not fearing smashing too many balls into the net or launching them outside like with long pips, and at the same time I want minimal reversal backspin when chopping to not send on the table dead smashable easy balls, is it possible to find such an item in medium pips category?

 

[SwingRobo]

To be honest,P2V,388c1,388c2(almost lp),Pulto,and some products of Dr.Neubauer,which are more like long pimple,they are made for those who want disruptive attack,when chopping it is hard to add spin(like soft antispin rubber),a skilled looper could easily conduct a threatening speedy loop drive.

Then,why not use short pimple like frendship 799 1.5,victas s1 1.6 or even d3 1.5?They have soft sponge,so you can easily control the spin and position when chopping and attacking,remain a little disrupetve as well.If you master how to add spin by sp yourself,you will find spin reversal is not that important.

 

[LordPippington]

Ah yes, the classic "Give me a rubber that does everything well and has no weaknesses" request!

Robo is right - All of those medium pips are fairly toothless when it comes to spin variation for chopping. You cannot add appreciable spin very easily, and they do not reverse the spin very well either. Essentially, you return a relatively low amount of spin, regardless of what shot or technique you utilize. Yes, it can be controlled and kept low and done consistently... However, there is no effect of increasing spin that you receive from long pips. And there is no ability to power up the spin that short pip/inverted affords you.

You may be better off trying a long pip rubber on a very thick sponge. At least with this setup, when you brush aggressively and dig into the sponge, it will increase the spin! Attacks will feel mushier, less forceful.

Also, keep in mind that attacking with long pips (especially low friction ones) is not done the same way attacking with MP/SP/Inv is performed. You need more of a sideways swiping motion, raking across the ball - not driving directly forward (for most shots, unless you get a high/short ball).

 

[belllfador]

I am in the same rabbit hole, searching for the best pips. And surprise, there are always trade offs. I played with a lot of rubbers and can recommend as a safe choice Nittaku SDK. Spiny, not too soft pips, 42.5 degrees sponge, at 1.4mm attacks are solid, chopping is easy. But there is no reversal with this one, only spin variation and sinking balls.

Other options are Ilius B and S. Hard but gripy LPs, with special very hard sponge. Ilius B is faster and harder and has some reversal even with 1.3mm sponge. Chopping is possible, but is not spiny as with Ilius S. The last one requires a faster blade, something like Off-, or attack is too slow.

The only one 388c-1 that I tried was hard as a brick, without any spin. 388c-3 is more alive and deadly in attacks even at 1.2mm. Have a little bit of spin, chopping is possible but not effective at all. Better block or hit.

388D-2 at 1mm is fun, the pips are soft and spiny, the sponge is soft and alive. Better than 388D-1 and overal a bit faster than SDK, but not so effective in my hands.

 

[Westy]

With Nittaku Do Knuckle in ox or 0.5mm you have this Do it all feeling.

 

[Peter93]

TLDR I want comfort for my offensive play not fearing smashing too many balls into the net or launching them outside like with long pips, and at the same time I want minimal reversal backspin when chopping to not send on the table dead smashable easy balls, is it possible to find such an item in medium pips category?

Yeah you probably want Super DO Knuckle which I'm currently using right now. The control is extremely high given the soft sponge, and the horizontal alignment makes gripping the ball much easier when attacking. I'd suggest trying it in 1.0mm as a compromise since you haven't used it before. I personally really dislike 0.5mm rubbers unless they're on very defensive blades, and 1.5mm can be really bouncy. I will say I am about to give Pimpleslide a shot just for fun. Despite being a short pip, the pips are very widely spaced and small to give that weird effect, while also have an extremely soft (25/35 deg. hardness, Super DO Knuckle on the other hand is 32.5/42.5).

 

[PickleRick]

I play Nittaku Do Knuckle in 1,4 on a VKM and it’s good for chopping and hitting higher balls.

You don’t get alot of automatic reversal though. You need alot of variation in your game to make it work. Pure for defense long pips are better but the DO Knuckle can give you more options and easier pushing against backspin.

 

[belllfador]

Yeah you probably want Super DO Knuckle which I'm currently using right now. The control is extremely high given the soft sponge, and the horizontal alignment makes gripping the ball much easier when attacking. I'd suggest trying it in 1.0mm as a compromise since you haven't used it before. I personally really dislike 0.5mm rubbers unless they're on very defensive blades, and 1.5mm can be really bouncy. I will say I am about to give Pimpleslide a shot just for fun. Despite being a short pip, the pips are very widely spaced and small to give that weird effect, while also have an extremely soft (25/35 deg. hardness, Super DO Knuckle on the other hand is 32.5/42.5).

SDK at 1.4mm is less bouncy than 388D-2 at 1mm.

Pimple Slide has unique pips geometry and extreme control, but the sponge is too soft and slow for my liking. I found PS to play better with 0.5+0.7mm custom sponge 45 degrees. P3Va is coming close with a bit bigger and softer pips, horizontally oriented. I just don't found time to test it with a thicker sponge.

 

[Peter93]

SDK at 1.4mm is less bouncy than 388D-2 at 1mm.

Pimple Slide has unique pips geometry and extreme control, but the sponge is too soft and slow for my liking. I found PS to play better with 0.5+0.7mm custom sponge 45 degrees. P3Va is coming close with a bit bigger and softer pips, horizontally oriented. I just don't found time to test it with a thicker sponge.

I have used 388D-2, but only in 0.5 with the red damping sponge, which was so slow it drove me crazy.

P3a is very good, but I've only tried it in OX and I haven't used it in a very long time. I'd probably like it and P3 a lot more now, but playing against higher level players (>2000) with OX I find difficult because their shots are so much harder and heavier, the lack of sponge leaves not a lot of room for error.

Trying to think of all the medium pips I've tried: Curl P2, DO Knuckle, Super DO Knuckle, 388C-1, Attack 8L 53. deg. Attack 8L and 388C-1 are much closer to short pips based on general shape. Super DO Knuckle had the most versatility for me, although I think for my opponents Attack 8 might have made them struggle the most.

 

[Draycott old man]

I have been using Dr N Aggressor Pro 1.5mm for 2 years and feel you can do everything!! Chopping, even looping ( without much spin which confuses opponents) flat hits that hardly ever come back but takes lots of practice!! Blocking with soft hands creates lots of deception!! A truly great all round Medium rubber that I can highly recommend!!!

 

[Lula]

Short pimple are good for chopping. Can create you own spin but probably worse control. Never met anyone that chops with medium pips but maybe the best middle way. For a bit more offensive play i think Keiler and Wildfire could be interesting.

 

[Peter93]

Short pimple are good for chopping. Can create you own spin but probably worse control. Never met anyone that chops with medium pips but maybe the best middle way. For a bit more offensive play i think Keiler and Wildfire could be interesting.

You may be familiar with a woman named Honoka Hashimoto

 

[lodro]

It has been mentioned above but i was just going to say :"the best medium pips are the short pips". 😁
For a cheap thrill and a good way to test I suggest Friendship 802 mystery III -40

 

[Westy]

Short pimple are good for chopping. Can create you own spin but probably worse control. Never met anyone that chops with medium pips but maybe the best middle way. For a bit more offensive play i think Keiler and Wildfire could be interesting.

Maybe you are also familiar with Hitomi Sato? Current no.22 using medium pips

 

[belllfador]

I have used 388D-2, but only in 0.5 with the red damping sponge, which was so slow it drove me crazy.

P3a is very good, but I've only tried it in OX and I haven't used it in a very long time. I'd probably like it and P3 a lot more now, but playing against higher level players (>2000) with OX I find difficult because their shots are so much harder and heavier, the lack of sponge leaves not a lot of room for error.

Trying to think of all the medium pips I've tried: Curl P2, DO Knuckle, Super DO Knuckle, 388C-1, Attack 8L 53. deg. Attack 8L and 388C-1 are much closer to short pips based on general shape. Super DO Knuckle had the most versatility for me, although I think for my opponents Attack 8 might have made them struggle the most.

My 388D-2 has also red sponge, but at 1mm and 35-40 degrees is away from damping.

Same story for OX and 0.5mm sponge, even with slow blade are not my gems.

BTW, what are your impressions of Curl P2 / P2V? Also, is there a big difference between Do Knuckle and the Super? I ordered P3V at 1mm but am looking for another promising rubber.

 

[Taute]

Hi everyone!

I'm looking for MEDIUM PIPS for my hybrid backhand play style, I have a very precise straight smash with inverted rubbers, but at the same time I'm very confident at chopping and I love using long pips that reverse the spin, so I'm looking for medium pips to do both confidently.

The rubbers I tried in the last months are: long pips: Brutal Metal TT (0.5mm) and DHS Cloud & Fog 3 (1mm) on Stratus Power Defense; medium pips: Spinlord Keiler 2 1.8mm on an old Stiga Legend blade.

So the first experiment with brutal metal (good reversal, difficult to block/push, super difficult to drive/smash) made me realize that attacking with long pips isn't easy and what's needed is a precise upward/forward motion to send a deadly smash on dead/high balls. With the Fog3 the situation got better (less reversal, but easier blocks and smashes) but overall the rubber has nothing special, not disruptive enough and not dangerous enough. With Keiler 2 1.8mm it was the opposite, perfect for attacking, almost like using inverted, I could flick short spinny serves and get easy points in 1-3 hits as the pips didn't suffer spin, but it didn't satisfy me as chop/blocking and chopping from medium/far distance was impossible because of the catapult effect and 0 inversion/backspin so I just had to attack.

So now I have built a nice combination with Victas Koji Matsushita Offensive- blade and K3 hybrid FX 2.0mm, the response for my forehand is linear and I like it a lot for topsins and smashing overall, and I recently got Grass D.Tecs 1.2mm because I really wanted to try it anyway even if I know that long pips are not my go to at this point, but it's a very nice rubber, chopping is good, inversion is good, control is good with proper technique, attacking is ok if i make a precise stroke like a light backhand topspin and I can hit hard enough to make a deadly smashes if I'm focused and don't hit with too much rush, because when I do, the ball goes straight into the net while when I open the blade too much it floats outside (I accepted it, all long pips react like this, some are easier than others).

I truly feel like I need medium pips too feel at peace with a rubber that would allow me to play defensively as if I have long pips and offensively as if I have short pips (I also want to twiddle the blade sometimes to have all the possible combinations of hits so the rubber has to be easy to use also with forehand), I know it's physically difficult because one tends to exclude the other, if I want pips with good grip to make nice flat smashes like with keiler2 I will have almost no reversal that I have with metal/fog3/grass.

I've made much research already, the best candidates seem to be: Nittaku Super Do Knuckle, Victas Curl P2V, Dawei 388 C1/2, Friendship 729 563, Spinlord Gipfelsturm (all with pros and cons). Didn't find much information on Dr Neubauer's KO, Aggressor and Yinhe Pluto Moxa.

TLDR I want comfort for my offensive play not fearing smashing too many balls into the net or launching them outside like with long pips, and at the same time I want minimal reversal backspin when chopping to not send on the table dead smashable easy balls, is it possible to find such an item in medium pips category?

I'm reading, and it seems like I'm reading my own post..I had exactly the same problems as you. And I switched to Medium Pips.
The first thing I started with was Gipfelsturm (the thinnest, like a 1.5 mm sponge). I played it for almost a year. Very similar to inverted, very little deception, good spin..hard to recive serve, hard to block, sensitive to incomming spin, sensitive to angle mistake... Great attack possibilities. However, after more than a year, I threw it aside.
Next: DMS Wildfire (1.3 mm): this was my discovery - something between short/long + ANTI. Possibilities/defenses - many: from chop/chop block to puch, passive block, drive and an etc..The attacking possibilities are excellent, the control is excellent. I've been playing for about 8 months, and I don't see any reason to change anything yet. There are a lot of videos on YouTube with its capabilities.

 

[ggabb3399]

To be honest,P2V,388c1,388c2(almost lp),Pulto,and some products of Dr.Neubauer,which are more like long pimple,they are made for those who want disruptive attack,when chopping it is hard to add spin(like soft antispin rubber),a skilled looper could easily conduct a threatening speedy loop drive.

Then,why not use short pimple like frendship 799 1.5,victas s1 1.6 or even d3 1.5?They have soft sponge,so you can easily control the spin and position when chopping and attacking,remain a little disrupetve as well.If you master how to add spin by sp yourself,you will find spin reversal is not that important.

on average are short pips less dangerous than inverted for pure attacking? I fear I might not have that much control on short though for defending, because I like to chopblock on the table and they do not seem to absorb much..

 

[ggabb3399]

I have used 388D-2, but only in 0.5 with the red damping sponge, which was so slow it drove me crazy.

P3a is very good, but I've only tried it in OX and I haven't used it in a very long time. I'd probably like it and P3 a lot more now, but playing against higher level players (>2000) with OX I find difficult because their shots are so much harder and heavier, the lack of sponge leaves not a lot of room for error.

Trying to think of all the medium pips I've tried: Curl P2, DO Knuckle, Super DO Knuckle, 388C-1, Attack 8L 53. deg. Attack 8L and 388C-1 are much closer to short pips based on general shape. Super DO Knuckle had the most versatility for me, although I think for my opponents Attack 8 might have made them struggle the most.

is it possible to attack flat hits with curl p2v or is more defensive as it's been catalogued as long pips? and what's the main difference between the two do knuckle versions? chopping and absorbing hits are very important parts of the game for me

 

[ggabb3399]

I have been using Dr N Aggressor Pro 1.5mm for 2 years and feel you can do everything!! Chopping, even looping ( without much spin which confuses opponents) flat hits that hardly ever come back but takes lots of practice!! Blocking with soft hands creates lots of deception!! A truly great all round Medium rubber that I can highly recommend!!!

is reversal on chopping good? flat hits have to be done like with long pips or is it easier?

 

[ggabb3399]

Short pimple are good for chopping. Can create you own spin but probably worse control. Never met anyone that chops with medium pips but maybe the best middle way. For a bit more offensive play i think Keiler and Wildfire could be interesting.

yeah my fear with shorts is I won't have much control, I already tried keiler 2 as I wrote but it was too much attack oriented and being a hard fast rubber it wasn't easy to absorb hits to chop or chopblock. Did you try Wildfire?